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Thread: Tips on fitting Image

  1. #1
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    Tips on fitting Image

    We are planning on switching to Image as our new "go to" lens. I do not really have any prior experience with the lens and am going on positive experiences that others have mentioned on optiboard. I had a few questions:

    -The fitting cross drop on Image is 2mm instead of the standard 4mm on many other PAL's. Does this affect the fitting? Empirically I would imagine that it would be safer to fit the cross at the bottom of the pupil or to fit it at the center but deduct 2mm when sending the order to the lab. The rationale here being that there is not much space between the fitting cross and the beginning of the add corridor (with the potential of overplussing the patient on straight gaze).
    -I've heard that the lens works well for distance and intermediate but is weak for near. Is there any benefit of bumping the add by 0.25? I know that this is often frowned upon. Any advantage to going more than 18mm on the min seg height?
    -Has anyone had any specific problems with this lens regarding computer vision? Near vision?
    -

  2. #2
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    I have not had any issues with it. I will have to ask around.

  3. #3
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    I don't think the 2mm drop means a change in fitting. I guess it essentially means the PRP is higher than the 4mm progressives, but other than that the lens is still meant to be measured at mid-pupil.
    Many doctors I've worked for will bump the add .25 as opposed to what they'd prescribe for a ST.
    If you go higher than an 18 seg, there is definately some difference. Look at the mark-up chart and see how much of the circle is present at 18 vs say, 24. I heard somewhere (not sure where=can't back this up) that the "minimum fitting height" is to give the pt 85% of the add, not all. So, it goes to reason that the bigger seg ht. will offer more of the add power and more area to enjoy it in.

    Lastly, I must say, the image is my lens of choice for sunglasses, not regular glasses. My only experience has been in DriveWear and Maui Jim Rx Sun, but I've never had trouble with it either.

    Good luck!

  4. #4
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    Image has been my go to lens for quite some time. Fit them as you would any other PAL. I've never experienced any problems with the lens.

  5. #5
    Rising Star OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    I've used it a fair amount in my office with rather good results.

    I do find it a little interesting that many will consider it a basic, or midgrade clear lens, but then it magically transforms to a PREMIUM lens when sunglass manufacturers produce it in their labs. (not trying to beat you up, eyefitwell, but your post reminded me of it)

    Since so many patients love their premium sunwear and recognize value in it (ie aren't upset) it would stand to reason they would also be happy in clear lenses. Still, how many patients actually sit and read in their sunglasses?? I guess being in Illinois plays a role.

    I'd appreciate other comments from those using it for a longer time. I've never had a lab guy/girl tell me to adjust and measurements when dealing with the image progressive. I've never found I needed to bump the add. The one patient who didn't like them noticed a little too much swim in the sides; can't remember her previous progressive.

  6. #6
    One of the worst people here
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangezero View Post
    I've used it a fair amount in my office with rather good results.

    I do find it a little interesting that many will consider it a basic, or midgrade clear lens, but then it magically transforms to a PREMIUM lens when sunglass manufacturers produce it in their labs. (not trying to beat you up, eyefitwell, but your post reminded me of it)

    Since so many patients love their premium sunwear and recognize value in it (ie aren't upset) it would stand to reason they would also be happy in clear lenses. Still, how many patients actually sit and read in their sunglasses?? I guess being in Illinois plays a role.

    I'd appreciate other comments from those using it for a longer time. I've never had a lab guy/girl tell me to adjust and measurements when dealing with the image progressive. I've never found I needed to bump the add. The one patient who didn't like them noticed a little too much swim in the sides; can't remember her previous progressive.
    I was talking to my former store today. They have a patient in Ovation ADS and Physio F-360 (both versions of their originals, but not avaible in the US. ADS is digital and F-360 is more customized than 360).

    Anyways, they also put both in Drivewear Image. The one in the Ovation ADS can tell the distortion right away. The one in the F-360 is saying that the reading is not as crisp.

    It is nothing against the image, but it is showing that the premium lenses are a premium for a reason. In both cases, the best option is for the client to grin and bear it. They will not get the Drivewear better than that, and if they did have it in the other two products, it would be tacking on a few hundred bucks.

    I compare it to previous glasses I have with older RXs. Not as crisp, but tolerable.

  7. #7
    Optician Extraordinaire
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    I won a free pair of Image lenses in Trivex and made them up for my husband. He wore then for a couple of days and told me he didn't like them as much as his other glasses because they were swimmy.

    I have a pair in sunglasses and they do seem harder in design then some of my other progressives. They are okay but not my favorite.

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
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    The Image is our primary progressive, but we've had better luck fitting all progressives at bottom of pupil at highest.Center of the pupil minus 3mm is our best fit.
    DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
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  9. #9
    OptiWizard
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    imagine

    Try Autograh II in Drivewear.

    I love my Image in Drivewear on the golf course. The swim keeps my head steady behind the ball. Any excess lateral movement is a nono, so it saves me $ in lessons.
    Money carefully refunded

  10. #10
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    The Image is our "generic" progressive. We fit the Physio or Ellipse for most patients. The 2mm instead of 4mm is not an issue with fitting but when you are blocking the lens for cutting you need to remember to drop it 2mm. As for the optics of the lens, I had an Image made for me to try it before selling it. I hated it for the side distortion but I am used to a better technology lens. So you don't want to downgrade someone to it. Patients who are put into it as a first time progressive seem to accept it ok. We do use it quite a bit for sunglasses. I am pretty sure it doesn't come hi index though. All in all not a bad lens but not my lens of choice unless price or insurance coverage warrant using it.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoisland58 View Post
    The Image is our "generic" progressive. We fit the Physio or Ellipse for most patients. The 2mm instead of 4mm is not an issue with fitting but when you are blocking the lens for cutting you need to remember to drop it 2mm. As for the optics of the lens, I had an Image made for me to try it before selling it. I hated it for the side distortion but I am used to a better technology lens. So you don't want to downgrade someone to it. Patients who are put into it as a first time progressive seem to accept it ok. We do use it quite a bit for sunglasses. I am pretty sure it doesn't come hi index though. All in all not a bad lens but not my lens of choice unless price or insurance coverage warrant using it.

    A pretty good assessment. Not the geegawiest lens, but pretty solid. And comes in a wide variety of mid and high index.
    http://www.youngeroptics.com/products/pals/ima_a.shtml
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  12. #12
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    The 2mm vs the 4mm drop doen't mean a thing. Think of it this way. The mfg can put the laser marks wherever they want

    Image has a clear distance and a decent near - so by default it MUST have a poor intermediate. Which turns out to be true.

    It normally has a higher base curve than newer designs. That's one reason it works better for suns especially w/ the large blanks and many polarized options, and the aforementioned wide distance viewing.

    It is not a premium lens IMHO. Personally, I love it. Of all my dozen's of designs, it is second only to my Definity's in Trivex.

    My patients did not agree with me, especially myopes. "It's swimmy", they say. Hyperopes tend to be happier with it. Due to the higher BC

    But it really can be fit at 18mm with plenty of reading area.

  13. #13
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    Wave Feel Free to Contact ME

    Hi,

    I have alot of experience with the Image PAL and would be happy to discuss. Feel free to contact me if you want to go over it! I'd be happy to help!

    Thanks,

    keith

  14. #14
    OptiBoardaholic
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    Thanks guys. The Image did very well in the 2006 Sheedy study. FWIW here are the numbers:

    Ratings for distance and intermediate:

    Genesis 78, 46
    Outlook 71, 42
    Life 67,56
    Image 57, 56
    Top 57, 67
    Comfort 39, 47
    Liberty 35, 60
    Panamic 35, 56
    Brevity 30, 70
    SolaMax 19, 61
    SolaOne 18. 54
    Piccolo 14, 39

    Ratings for near (16mm, 18mm, 22mm)
    Piccolo 34, 50, 80
    SolaMax 20, 38, 71
    SolaOne 17, 35, 62
    Image 16, 33, 61
    Comfort 10, 27, 56
    Liberty 10, 26, 53
    Life 9, 27, 61
    Genesis 9, 28, 55
    Panamic 9, 27, 52
    Brevity 7, 17, 33
    Top 0, 15, 29

    Ratings for astigmatism: Best to Worst
    Panamic 74
    Brevity 68
    SolaOne 67
    Piccolo 58
    SolaMax 56
    Genesis 55
    Image 52
    Liberty 51
    Top 47
    Outlook 44
    Comfort 43
    Life 19

  15. #15
    OptiBoard Professional OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Anybody have a link to get a copy. I haven't read the latest one? I do recall Image was ranked better than most in the original study.
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  16. #16
    Master OptiBoarder snowmonster's Avatar
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    Here's the link:

    http://optometry.osu.edu/COOR/pdfs/p...AOA_paper2.pdf

    One of the things I found most interesting is the table at the bottom of page 30, which compared manufacturer suggested fitting height to what Sheedy's data recommends. This is probably better discussed (and has been) in the PAL forum, but you get what you get.
    -Steve

  17. #17
    Master OptiBoarder karen's Avatar
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    Dr H, I can send the Younger rep in to see you if you would like. If so send me a PM and let me know.
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  18. #18
    OptiBoard Professional OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    thanks snowmaster.

    :cheers:
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  19. #19
    Optical Clairvoyant OptiBoard Bronze Supporter Andrew Weiss's Avatar
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    I always fit the Image at the base of the pupil. There is enough swimminess that it helps the patient to move it down and out of the way. It is a decent lens, and the previous posts have enumerated its shortcomings.

    A comment on the Sheedy study in reference to the Image: yes, it came out very well, but somehow Sheedy's statistics dont' seem translate accurately into actual patient experience. Example: the Comfort, and lens of about the same era, doesn't come out well, but there's something about the design that patients seemed to respond to well. I don't think the success of the Comfort relative to the Image is only the result of Essilor's superior marketing and economic clout (although I do not discount the importance of those factors).

    If you want to have a "go-to" lens that's economical to buy, have you considered Shamir's Genesis? Having worn both the Image and the Genesis, I think the Genesis is a smoother design. Again: best fit, in my experience, at the base of the pupil. Maybe you can get a good deal from a lab on that lens if they know you're going to be using it alot.
    Andrew

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