Ontario Opticians Banned from Refractometry

[optical maven]

I see you've drank the kool-aid. There is no hiding a mark up. The selling price is what it is and there is no hidden cost or extra charge after the fact. We don't quote a price and then say by the way, there's a $130 dispensing fee on top of that price because I have to have my receptionist measure your PD and bend the temples. That would be considered unethical in my store and also classified as illegal dispensing. As I said in earlier posts, this is what the customers are telling me and asking me...so please keep up the good work in trying to mesmorize the patient with bs that only an OD can properly provide and fit your glasses and that you shouldn't trust your eyes to anyone else. What a crock.

In my office, as in every optometrist that I know, all fees are discussed with the customer, including the dispensing fee. They are given their prescription and told to shop around if they desire. They are told to compare same frame and lens and to return if they find a better price elsewhere. They always return. I also have worked in the past with the COO and neither pricing glasses with a dispensing fee or a markup is illegal. I do have a person working for me who previously worked for 10 years in a local optical store, often on her own, and she is not licensed. I figured if it was good enough in an optician's premise it was good enough in my office.

[AdmiralKnight]

I'm sorry, but there's been no Kool-aid drinking here. I've been a LICENSED Optician since I was 18 years old. I've worked in chains, independants AND OD offices. When I quote a price for a patient, the dispensing fee is included. It's broken down by lens, frame, coating, and fee. The patient is fully aware of what the fee is for, and believe me, the price is very competitive.

I don't get your specific complaint. Most people when complaining about the cost plus system are complaining that it makes it so ODs can charge much LESS than indepenants, not more. (which I can fully understand.)

[renee1111]

I don't get your specific complaint. Most people when complaining about the cost plus system are complaining that it makes it so ODs can charge much LESS than indepenants, not more. (which I can fully understand.)

Yes and no....cost plus dispensing would be a great system, but the reality of the situation is that OD's get discounts on lenses and frames. And rarely, if ever are those saving passed onto the patient. This is where the word "unethical" would make perfect sense.

[AdmiralKnight]

Which is fine, and I agree with you.

But that's not his complaint. He's complaining about high dispensing fees, which just makes no sence to me.

[optical maven]

Yes and no....cost plus dispensing would be a great system, but the reality of the situation is that OD's get discounts on lenses and frames. And rarely, if ever are those saving passed onto the patient. This is where the word "unethical" would make perfect sense.

Do opticians not get the same discounts? Do they pass these on to the customer? It is still a fact that when all is added up, optometrists are almost always less expensive than retail stores for the same glasses.

[renee1111]

Do opticians not get the same discounts? Do they pass these on to the customer? It is still a fact that when all is added up, optometrists are almost always less expensive than retail stores for the same glasses.

Yes, Opticians do get the same discounts and no, they don't pass them on, your right. But the cost plus model, is supposed to be just that "cost plus fitting fee" that's all. I guess I'm off the main subject, sorry guys....please carry on

[Excalibur]

I'm sorry, but there's been no Kool-aid drinking here. I've been a LICENSED Optician since I was 18 years old. I've worked in chains, independants AND OD offices. When I quote a price for a patient, the dispensing fee is included. It's broken down by lens, frame, coating, and fee. The patient is fully aware of what the fee is for, and believe me, the price is very competitive.

I don't get your specific complaint. Most people when complaining about the cost plus system are complaining that it makes it so ODs can charge much LESS than indepenants, not more. (which I can fully understand.)

The fact that the following comment is made by a dispensing optician makes it even more valuable. "Most people when complaining about the cost plus system are complaining that it makes it so ODs can charge much LESS than indepenants, not more."


The post earlier in this thread outlining insurance fraud reminded me of this case about an optical store: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z8sLV_xvEM

In conclusion, the last few pages have got far off topic. Good place to close this thread.

[MelroseEye]

Not really wanting to jump into the fray about refracting one way or the other, Its the presumtion that opticians shouldn't be taking refracting courses that irritates me the most. 10 billion times health care professionals, including optometrists, had the education BEFORE the legislative change allowed them to use it. We ran into this time and time again in BC. For Life also points out that many opticians have been refracting for years under supervision or delegation, and finally, many opticians want to take the course just to gain insight and understanding into the process. I've been in the OR many times watching and assisting cataract surgery while an ophthalmologist explained the procedure right from pre-op to post-op and recovery. Doesn't mean I think opticians should seek the right to perform the bloody thing, just to gain insight and understanding first hand, up close and personal, so my knowlege of aphakia and its management with spectacles and contact lenses is enhanced, and some continuity with other allied professionals is realized.
rant over.

As a dispensing optician who has even assisted M.D.'s during Lasik and PRK procedures, every bit of training and education, including the ability to effectively refract patients, has immensely expanded my ability to deliver insightful and quality care and services to my Opticianry patients. It is my hope that your Ministry des not suggest that Opticians shouldn't seek greater training and insight. I do agree that an optician or any other professional in the vision sciences should never prescribe corrective lenses without appropriate certifications. Hope this all works out for you.

[Barry Santini]

It's not my approach , in fact I am not even in favor of opticians refracting . Why not?

Having said that , the danger is not in refracting nor is the danger even in opticians prescribing WITH THE CORRECT TRAINING . The danger is that the public does not know what they are not getting . That's because we've let them to believe that the refraction *is* the eye exam.

Yes, I'm intentionally trying to stimulate a response here. I challenge all boarders to show how "determining" the focus of the eye is endangering the public. After all, the public *refracts* themselves now with OTC readers and bifocals, yes?

Barry

[Chris Ryser]

You guys have to be kidding me. To measure a PD, seg height, bend two temples and splay two nose pads, all of which combined should take ten minutes. A $148.00 fee is a riduculous rip off to a consumer. But, please don't stop on my behalf as it's great for me when comparing to customers why I don't charge a fee.

As far as I know Optometrists charge a flat dispensing fee and then sell the frame and lenses at cost, compared to an optician who uses a multilplying factor of his cost to arrive at his selling prices.

The optometrist will end up selling simple prescritions, as single vision in an inexpensive frame for much more than the optician, but expensive ones for much less.

[optical maven]

Yes, I'm intentionally trying to stimulate a response here. I challenge all boarders to show how "determining" the focus of the eye is endangering the public. After all, the public *refracts* themselves now with OTC readers and bifocals, yes?

Barry

As has been said several times before: The measuring of the refractive error of the eye is no different than measuring someone's body temperature or blood pressure. You need no training or qualifications to do these measurments. The interpretation (diagnosing) and subsequent prescribing have been deemed to require more training and so are restricted activities to those that are properly trained.