Cheap dr?? Reimbursment for meals durring seminars...

[jalvers]

Yes !!I will put the education on my resume. I will not however be involved in any more seminars.. tests or travel unless they can pay me my expenses. I will be looking for a new job with a company who will pay me to take these types of trips when it is required... I dont expect to get paid for a bunch of beer or a lobster dinner, but mileage and maybe the total cost of my meals would have been a nice . Here is another question ..the education and fancy certificates are nice but what does CPOA really mean. I am honestly not trying to be a smarty pants. Now that I am a COPA I perform the same duties that my fellow workers (who just a few months ago were checking out customers at the local grocery) do. I really dont get paid any more for the title.. I will get a 25 cent raise... I guess what i am saying is the CPOA or CPOT titles should come with duties that someone with out the title could not perform. That would give the letters some weight and then maybe i would feel better about the time i lost , and the meals and money would not be an issue. I feel that the time i spent studying, and driving was a little worthless. I am glad i know a little more than before i took the tests but really, what good does it do me? It MAY help me in looking for another job, but i live in a small town. the CPO Letters MAY help more in bigger cities. I know some of you will say i should be happy for the knowledge. Dont get me wrong i am... but i was employeed 13 years at my old clinic (i ony quit because i had to relocate with the hubby) I did not have a title there and got paid better. i went thru the trouble of studying , stress , wear and tear on my car... etc etc ...and i feel it was to better the clinc i work for. GEEZE guys all I am asking for is a few more bucks to super size my mc meals. If thats what keeps employees happy maybe they should pitch in a few more dollars I worked at my old clinic for 13 years this one i will leave in less than two.

[Johns]

of course you are a doctor owner, I am a poorly paid employee

No...I am not a doctor owner. I am an optician owner. I have absolutely no sympathy for poorly paid employees, unless they are underaged children in third world countries. They have no choice. You do.

Your husband's mad? Then quit! It must not be that bad paying of a job for you to stay there.

[ksquared]

GEEZE guys all I am asking for is a few more bucks to super size my mc meals. If thats what keeps employees happy maybe they should pitch in a few more dollars I worked at my old clinic for 13 years this one i will leave in less than two.

With all due respect...you are asking in the wrong place. If you didn't want the training and you didn't want to travel to take the test and if you wanted to be reimbursed for your meals and your time...you should have taken this up with your employer instead of posting you complaint after the fact on a public board for all (including your present and future employers) to see. Now you may think that complaining to people you don't even know and asking their advice accomplishes something but really it does not. Even if everyone agreed that you were working for some despicable cheapskate SOB who was treating you unfairly, what would that change? Your time would be more productive spent in a candid conversation with your employer.

my -2.5 cents....

[Jubilee]

Yes !!I will put the education on my resume. I will not however be involved in any more seminars.. tests or travel unless they can pay me my expenses. I will be looking for a new job with a company who will pay me to take these types of trips when it is required... I dont expect to get paid for a bunch of beer or a lobster dinner, but mileage and maybe the total cost of my meals would have been a nice . Here is another question ..the education and fancy certificates are nice but what does CPOA really mean. I am honestly not trying to be a smarty pants. Now that I am a COPA I perform the same duties that my fellow workers (who just a few months ago were checking out customers at the local grocery) do. I really dont get paid any more for the title.. I will get a 25 cent raise... I guess what i am saying is the CPOA or CPOT titles should come with duties that someone with out the title could not perform. That would give the letters some weight and then maybe i would feel better about the time i lost , and the meals and money would not be an issue. I feel that the time i spent studying, and driving was a little worthless. I am glad i know a little more than before i took the tests but really, what good does it do me? It MAY help me in looking for another job, but i live in a small town. the CPO Letters MAY help more in bigger cities. I know some of you will say i should be happy for the knowledge. Dont get me wrong i am... but i was employeed 13 years at my old clinic (i ony quit because i had to relocate with the hubby) I did not have a title there and got paid better. i went thru the trouble of studying , stress , wear and tear on my car... etc etc ...and i feel it was to better the clinc i work for. GEEZE guys all I am asking for is a few more bucks to super size my mc meals. If thats what keeps employees happy maybe they should pitch in a few more dollars I worked at my old clinic for 13 years this one i will leave in less than two.

Would it be better if you worked for someone who didn't encourage training at all?

While perhaps it would be ideal if everything was paid, it is often not. No company paid me to study for any test I had to take.. for any certifications, etc. I did them because they game me better working knowledge, and could be used for leverage in negotiating my salary both at the current employer and any future ones.

I currently work for a place where I make less than I did prior, and I don't get any educational allowances. However I work a better schedule and they offer me the flexibility to take care of my family and my own health. I get told regularly I am appreciated, and while it isn't always sunshine and roses, typically the frustrating moments pass quickly, and my environment is tons better than what it was in corporate.

Your certification could open avenues for you later. Perhaps someone is planning on leaving in a timeframe, and you are being groomed to take their place. Perhaps expansion is in the works, and the certification will be needed for the duties that will bring.. or maybe it is a piece of paper that gets put on the wall to assure patients that "only the best" works here. For whatever reason, you will benefit from it, and sometimes costs have to be shared for it.

I understand that lost time and wages add up. While a portion of the raise is taken with the costs to achieve it, what about every year there after?
Also, why didn't you talk to the doctor and asked him up front what was being covered? That could have avoided this whole situation to begin with.

We have several people on this board who pursue these opportunities with no help from their employers. We encourage knowledge and learning.. certificates and degrees.. all to better our profession. So please forgive us if we aren't as supportive as you like.

[Jubilee]

I also think it is important to note that many companies will only reimburse you for your test costs, and then only if you pass. Even for true educational expenses (such as those for college courses, etc) they only pay if you receive a high enough grade, so you have to wait for reimbursement...

While yes it is rough going 2 days w/o pay (I wonder if vacation pay/personal time/etc could be used to cover this) is rough, the cost of the classes and the test being covered and paid for up front is a tremondous help the the bottom line compared to a reimbursement situation. With the tests and classes running upwards of 5-8oo bucks depending on who is presenting it.. that by itself more than paid for the missed days at work.

I would happily take vacation time to work on my certifications if the rest was being covered. As it is, I currently going into education debt pursuing my MPH, so I can better myself and in turn get in with a charitable health based organization where I can better the world!

Cassandra

[For-Life]

Lets again keep in mind that this is not volunteer education, but forced training.

Lets change the tune a little bit. Lets say the training is on a computer program for Optical POS software that no competitor has. So this position will in no way help you on the job market.

[FullCircle]

Pardon me if this has already been asked.

Ok, you got sent to training, Doc paid for meals, test, hotel, gas, and meals. You didn't get paid your wages.

Would you have gone if Doc had paid wages but NOT paid for the other stuff?

[Fezz]

I have been thinking real hard about this thread. This is a good thing, and it is why I love Optiboard. For-Life, as usual, makes some very thought provoking and insightful points.

I keep coming back to the point:

What value can you put on learning?

This is about self-improvement, learning, betterment. Some of us value that more than others.

I guess thats why some of us pay for Optiboard subscriptions, buy books, go to Vision Expo, make long-distant phone calls to fellow optical professionals, travel, and generally dig into our own pockets to better ourselves and our knowledge.

This thread has been a learning experience for me.....has it been for you?

[For-Life]

I have been thinking real hard about this thread. This is a good thing, and it is why I love Optiboard. For-Life, as usual, makes some very thought provoking and insightful points.

I keep coming back to the point:

What value can you put on learning?

This is about self-improvement, learning, betterment. Some of us value that more than others.

I guess thats why some of us pay for Optiboard subscriptions, buy books, go to Vision Expo, make long-distant phone calls to fellow optical professionals, travel, and generally dig into our own pockets to better ourselves and our knowledge.

This thread has been a learning experience for me.....has it been for you?

This is part of my argument though. What value? If it is employer forced then it is probably something that could help the organization, but not necessarily yourself.

I can tell you numerous sessions I have been to where I would not receive an extra penny for accomplishing them, because they are not about improving my career, but improving the organization.

[Fezz]

I can tell you numerous sessions I have been to where I would not receive an extra penny for accomplishing them, because they are not about improving my career, but improving the organization.

But...........have you not learned anything?


I believe the OP's argument has to do with knowledge that would certainly help them in their career. If it was not the circumstances listed, but some other "learning", maybe I could lean a little more towards your thinking. I am dealing with the matter posted.

[ziggy]

I can see where you are comming from, but to be honest, should the details not have been hammered out to begin with? I dont know if I missed something, but were you required to go? Most places will make some sort of education an option for you but only up to a certin amount. Any help is better than none. Over all, the problem within the optical industry is that we expect some one else to pick up the tab, like Fezz and Harry C. have stated it is OUR responsibility to cover our own education. I once worked for a group that if they paid for any education any you left the company with in six months of taking the training they deducted it from your final paycheck. look at it like this for two days pay and a couple of happy meals you are now a COPA, I only wish my ABO/NCLE/LDO were as cheep.

[Happylady]

I recently was sent out of town to Seattle for a seminar and to take the test for CPO. The test was paid for as well as 2 classes I took.

I think the key words here are "I was sent." If it was part of her job to go then her boss should have paid her for her time, her meals, and mileage on her car.

[Lulubelle]

Everyone keeps bashing at jalvers about the "free education" she was receiving. The Dr (business owner) made the decision to send her on this course and pay for most of the costs. So he/she obviously felt there was a benefit to the business, not just the employee.

I have been an employee, business owner and commissioned agent. When I sent someone on a course I expected to pay for everything because it was a benefit to my business first, and a benefit to my employee second. I have never been sent on a course where my expenses and time were not paid for. I have chosen to take courses that I paid for myself.

I don't know if jalvers knew in advance that these 2 days would not be paid for or if not attending was an option, but all of this should have been discussed and clarified in advance.

[Johns]

But...........have you not learned anything?

What if they were training you how to repair Ronsers, or teaching you how to speak an ancient Incan language that you'll never again use.

I think that if it's valuable enough to the employer to FORCE the employee to go, they should pay. If it's optional training, then the employer should be able to pick and choose what they pay for- and it should be explained up front.

[Fezz]

What if they were training you how to repair Ronsers, or teaching you how to speak an ancient Incan language that you'll never again use.

You mean Ronsirs right?

Where do I sign up?!!!

The Incan language.......
hmmm...............................................I could use that to swear during repairs of said Ronsirs and the patient would be none the wiser. Those top rim screws were MURDER. I wish I would have taken a class on them!

I would have paid for it too!!!!

;):cheers::D:cheers:

[ziggy]

I think that if it's valuable enough to the employer to FORCE the employee to go, they should pay. If it's optional training, then the employer should be able to pick and choose what they pay for- and it should be explained up front.

I agree, I just was under the impression that it was not mandatory, but if it was I too would be upset. so Jalvers, were you forced to take the course and test or not.

[Fezz]

I worked at my old clinic for 13 years this one i will leave in less than two.

Herein may be your answer. Maybe the Dr. realizes this and figured you were leaving anyway, so why foot the whole bill?

Just a thought.

[Jubilee]

Which once again, begs the question.. what was worked out in advance?

Was she told "go to it or lose your job?"

Is everyone being brought up to a new standard and asked to be certified?

What was negotiated or discussed in advance?

Could she had turned down this opportunity had she known that she would have lost 2 days pay?

Could vacation time or some other PTO benefit be used as a compromise?

Doesn't this certification (cause COPA is something that is marketable and doesn't just benefit one organization) increase her market value and thus should be shared?

Hell, LC never paid me to "study". They only reimbursed me for educational expenses after I had everything approved before hand, explained what they would pay and what I needed to do.. and then I had to wait for reimbursement.

Yes, it would be nice if everything was paid for. However that isn't the situation. Instead of gritching about how cheap the doctor is, why not look at the bright side about what has been accomplished and what benefit it could bring not only the employer, but the receipent.

Who knows except the OP what all the employer may offer in reg pay, benefits, time off etc. What if she is already earning above market wage for being non-certified, and gets reg benes inclduing health, etc to boot? Where another doc may pay a lower hourly rate, offers no insurance, but will pay for you to take 2 days and get a test.. which doc is giving the employee less?

There is so much more that needs to be defined/acknowledged before deciding if the doctor is "cheap" or not.

But if it is really that bad.. get a new job and move on. There is much more to life than gritching about money. We all think we deserve more, and unfortunately very few do what they need to make that a reality.. both in deserving and acheiving.

Cassandra

[Johns]

You mean Ronsirs right?

;):cheers::D:cheers:

Fix It?

Hell, I can't even spell it!:hammer::finger::cheers:

[tia_2_lexi]

When I took my ABO and NCLE tests I had to travel 4 hours to get to the testing sites. The Dr I work for reimbursed me for my hotel room for one night, he paid for the tests, for all my meals, and i got .40 a mile for gas reimbursement. I think that is a pretty good deal to me. :)

[Fezz]

This whole scenario reminds me of the story that I hear all to often from Opticians/employees who have grown apathetic and from business owners (Opticians, OD, OMD) who have grown fed up:

Opticians/employees cry that the owners don't pay for any CE courses, dinners, trade shows, or memberships into the various associations. Owners cry that the Opticians/employees were only interested in all of the education, meetings and societies when they were footing the bill!


So......we continue to chase our tails!

[Happylady]

Opticians/employees cry that the owners don't pay for any CE courses, dinners, trade shows, or memberships into the various associations. Owners cry that the Opticians/employees were only interested in all of the education, meetings and societies when they were footing the bill!

I have never had a boss pay for any CE courses, trade shows, or memberships. My boss at the time didn't even pay for me to take the ABO test. I do it for me, I am interested in learning and improving myself. I have never asked for anything to be paid for.

However, if my boss told me to take two days off from work and attend something work related I would expect to be paid for my time. If I chose to without her asking me to, then I would not expect to be paid.

[mlm]

I'm coming into this one a little late (lost my internet connection for 2 weeks :angry:), but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

jalvers, I went to the same conference to do the CPOT practical exam. Not to put you down because everyone's financial situation is different, but I would have loved to have your kind of reimbursement. In my case, the doc paid only for the exam fee ($250). I paid for my round trip travel, accomodations, conference fees (including 1 seminar), and all meals out of my own pocket. And those days were counted as vacation time. Sure I would have love to be reimbursed, but I'm not holding my breath.

The CPOT exam is purely voluntary for me since I'm Canadian, and I would do this all over again even knowing how expensive it will be. (Although I haven't gotten my results yet, so maybe I'll change my mind if I fail...) I think it kind of sucks that my employers will get all the benefits of my training with very little expense on their part, but I'm not doing this training for them. I'm doing it for me. That's why I will suck it up and deal with the situation I was given, even though 2 of my coworkers were sent to Paris last fall for Silmo all expenses paid.

(I'm counting on karma to eventually even things out.)

[rbaker]

From college on I have paid for every bit of education that has been of any value in my life. In fact, the few optical dog and pony shows that my employers have paid for where a waste of my time and my employers money.

I believe that the situation that we are addressing in this post is some weekend thingy which will, quite frankly, not amount to a hill of beans on either the posters resume or the skill set of the employer. Now maybe a semester or two of accounting at the local community college would be a worthy undertaking but would we expect the employer to pick up the tab for this?

Stand up on your own two feet, pay your own way and depend on no one for your security and happiness.

[Fezz]

Stand up on your own two feet, pay your own way and depend on no one for your security and happiness.

:cheers::cheers::cheers: