Originally Posted by IndianaOD
Plez every OD I have worked for are cheaper then dirt. So you give your Indiana Opticians a dollar more then minimum wage and think it's a big deal. Come on get in the real world. As I have said before and will say again OD's and OMD's pay their opticians very low. They would rather hire a pretty little thing and call her a stylist so they can save the extra bucks it would cost them to hire a real optician. Don't get me started!
Economics is always the issue. You are threatening to take money and power from someone else. There are only three things that ever started any war.
Money,
Power, and
Sex.
And the sex part is mostly (not completely) about power.
And yes I left out religion. People will go to war for their religion, but the leaders at the top will not start a war for religious reasons.
If you could find out how to make ODs more money, they will be your best friends. The "liability" will somehow not be an issue any more.
I guess you forgot about the crusades, leaders did go to war. It does not matter how much money you earn for an OD or OMD they are never satisfied. As much as I was making for the last OMD I worked for he turned around and said I can do this with a less expensive optician and still make money. He went through 4 opticians before he found one that could replace me. The first one he kept for a year and let him go because some how his hands got into the till ( if you know what I mean ) another words he was stealing. The other people three over the next two years could not produce like I produced. So it took that clown three years and four people to finally settle on some one and they still can't do what I did. He learned his lesson the hard way.
Plez every OD I have worked for are cheaper then dirt. So you give your Indiana Opticians a dollar more then minimum wage and think it's a big deal. Come on get in the real world. As I have said before and will say again OD's and OMD's pay their opticians very low. They would rather hire a pretty little thing and call her a stylist so they can save the extra bucks it would cost them to hire a real optician. Don't get me started!
Give it up, you have no idea what pay or benefits our employees get. Full medical itself can cost $500/mo per employee.
Don't speak unless you have facts. We have 3 with over 10 years, we must be decent employers.
There is also freedom, revenge, fear, boredom (yes, some Kings went to war just for something to do and the love of battle), political "ideals", sometimes even food, occasionally just because someone said the wrong thing to the wrong person (political insult) Andrew Jackson once sacked and entire Canadian town for insulting the U.S. flag. Teddy Rosevelt once told told Kaiser Whilhiem (after he bragged on the strength of his army) to : "Bring 'em on we'll whip them before breakfast." No war ensued on this but I have no doubt Teddy would have backed it up.
Sometimes wars ensue just from mistakes (possibly the Spanish American war) several times we came close to war with the USSR from radar glitches, we almost lauched a nuclear strike because of a flight of geese.
Chip
I do believe that any optician, if he or she gets simple training, can do refracting job perfectly because of the development of refined equipment and its simplicity of the operation. In the view of customer benefits, optician's practice of this job helps customers have the merits of convenience and economy.
Checking vision, that is not about desease but about abnomality of eyes, for glasses is not a difficult job any longer unlike finding eye disease that needs broad and more knowledge.
At this moment, the legal issue is only barrier.
Why do customers pay more for this? Without paying the cost, customer can get glasses economically and conveniently if the service can be provided at no charge by optican's participation. Let the law makers acknowledge these factors, first.
Last edited by eoptics; 05-28-2008 at 09:52 AM.
ODs are losing business to OMDs because of the lower reimburement rates for OMDs. OMDs are now opening opticals and accepting vision insurance so they can maintain their 40-100 patients a day volume.
If I was an OD, I would work with opticians and lobby to have OMD exams only paid by insurance when referred from an OD, just like everything else in medicine.
We're not allowed to visit a neurosurgeon for a headache, we shouldnt need an eye surgeon for glasses.
I have enough of an idea that od's and omd's don't pay. So you give your optician a little extra big deal!
jediron1,
If you don't like the pay...find a career that pays better and quit b!tching
jediron1,
If you don't like the pay...find a career that pays better and quit b!tching
Look Goatstone :shiner: never said I wasn't paid well now. I said when I worked for cheap OD's and OMD's I wasn't paid well, get the facts straight before you stick your two cents in. ;)
These are all great examples and I don't disagree. I would just say that they mostly fall under power: Freedom could be stated as power over self-determination. When bored, kings want to be reminded of their power.
Instead of money, I should have said resources. Such as gold, food, oil, diamonds, which are all currency in certain situations or can be exchanged for currency.
And concerning the crusades. The leader(s), (Pope and bishops) inspired and sanctioned the war using religion as the selling point. But it was really about expanding power for "christiandome" and therefore it's leaders.
Optometry is in caught in the middle because there are two main groups that want them out; Ophthalmology and the optical giant corporations.
They can whine all they want but independent optometry has its days counted. Their nearsightedness of the ODs was that instead of pushing independent opticianry out they should have actually being proactive to establish a licensing in every state for opticians forcing the corporations to play by an even level in every sense of the word. We are so afraid of the corporations today that even our licensing boards are afraid to tackle them (Optometry and Opticianry). Shame on them!
It is too late now as close to 50% of Optometry is corporate and possibly 80% of opticians work for the big boxes. The next step for the corporations is to tackle Ophthalmology.
Dannyboy
Danny: You're wrong here. There was a time when opticianry and ophthalmology were closely allied and supported each other. Opthalmology had lots of clout and finances when needed, opticianry was the prime source of referral for ophthalmolgists.
Now Opthalmology for all purposes is thier own optician (some may be in the pay of ophthalmolgy but it's the doctor's business and the optician is sending him nothing, just his employee.
Now that much of opthalmology no longer wants to refract or even treat desease, instead wants to be almost a surgical enterprise, the need for opticianry is greatly deminished. While I have sent thousands of patients to opthalmologist, and even established practices for some they have learned that a meare optician is not much of a source for surgical patients. Oh, we send the occasional cataract, a rare detached retina or so, but for them most part what we refer are healthy patients wanting refraction mostly with a routine exam. Opthalmology doesn't even want to do this anymore.
Now O.D.'s are a source for referral of refractive surgery, cataracts, and provide follow up after these have been done, so the opthalmologist is making thousands per hour with no follow up time required. Why should they want to be bothered with refraction and junior's conjunctivitus.
If we ever want to function and indenpendent opticians again, we in a whole heap 'o trouble.
We will never be able to out PR the OD's and the OMD's no matter how rightous our case, they have too damn much clout, money, prestige and numbers.
Now if you have a strategy to overpower this, for God's sake share.
Chip
Ok,
This post is not beneficial for anyone, but I would like to pose a reality check.
In the midwest a high school graduate has pretty limited options. Many choose a factory job. These jobs don't pay nearly as much as before and there is no job security. Many make around $15 an hour with little to no benefits. This is uncomfortable and mind numbing work. You get 30 mins for lunch non paid and maybe 2 10 minute breaks. Others may get $8 in a service industry.
Lets say one of our newer techs makes $10 an hour with full medical. This makes it equivalent to $13-14 an hour. The environment is clean and pleasant. The work is varied and non stressful. They get respect and get to help the patients.
Considering this comparison, how are techs / opticians getting such a bad deal? Most are 2nd wage earners in the family. The training is done while being paid at the office.
A buddy is part of a large office that pays their head optician around $45k with benefits. On par or better with teachers.
What is the problem?
Chip i am not wrong! I never said that MDs never were with us...They were in the old days but those days are gone....todays mds are greedy they see optical as another source of income...They see the ODs as what we were in the past referrals. Independent opticianry is dead and independent ods are almost in the same path. Corporate opticals are here to rule wether we like it or not. ODs are their employees and nothing can be done. Why bother. Wefited contact when it was profitable...then they screwed that (I blame the Ods for this) If that Od had release the Rx maybe Starrack would have never initiated this non sense and life would have been easier...but that is too late. The Od were so focus with us as competition that they forgot about the big boxes...They are gobblling them the ods as fast as they can..and frankly they desrve that. I would not be surprise if the Optometry schools start actually reducing their schooling to less years as the big boxes only want to sell, sell. The medical training that these Ods of today receive probably will not be use to its fullest because they are doing refractions at wally....our boards are a joke as they allow these empires to get away with murders...they have no cojones....stores without opticians (and is in the licensed states) i can omnly imagine in the non licensed ones what goes on.
Dannyboy
I agree 100%. Well said Dannyboy!
We will never be able to out PR the OD's and the OMD's no matter how rightous our case, they have too damn much clout, money, prestige and numbers.
Now if you have a strategy to overpower this, for God's sake share.
Chip
PM sent..;)
There is nothing magical about MD after their name but they do hold the holy grail as far as the three O's go. Where the MD goes is where the OD's and Opticians usually go. As Chip said because of there money and power they hold the trump card and that is what MD will get you. Now on worship your right as a group OMD's have the biggest ego's and god complexes of any of the specialties. Lastly if you wear a rain suit you won't have to worry about taking crap from all sides. ;)
I'll tell you what is magical. Go to medical school, get an ophthalmology residency, and start making $50,000 a week doing lasik. And that week is only 2 days long. Make $25K on wednesday and another 25 on friday.
A lasik surgeon's pay is so far up on the scale that it makes optometrists and opticians look about the same.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
As a newbie I hate to get involved in a contentious discussion, but some of you people seem to be bitter about surgeons making more than OD's or even opticians!
The original post was about opticians with certain qualifications refracting--more to the point, about not releasing Rx's. Somehow it's devolved into opticians vs. OD's vs. MD's etc.
Let me tell you something, Oh Masters of Frame Bending and Lords of the Snellen Chart...Cutting into someone's eyeball requires more skill and cojones than most here, including me, will ever have. MD's sacrificed more to get where they are, and risk more to stay where they are (malpractice insurance), and that's why they make more money.
Many independent opticians are doing well; they are the ones who look for opportunity rather than where to place blame. Both OD's and MD's can be great partners for opticians--I have worked with both and all of them were fair and even generous employers; they can be great partners, as well.
The pie we are all sharing is of infinite size, and opportunity abounds for all of us here who love helping people see better. A few bad apples do not, in this case, spoil the bunch.
There is always someone who thinks they are bigger and better. General and cardio surgeons tell OMDs they aren't real surgeons. There is always a bully with an even bigger ego.
I like being an OD because I know and can treat things that OMDs don't know exist. Yeah they get the pay and respect, but I've had mothers come back and cry when VT rid their child of daily headaches.
Who's to say which takes more mental fortitude. Understanding neurology and visual processing or making similar cuts over and over again.
To each his own.
HarryChilling,
As a "manager" at a Pearle Vision in Hunt Valley,MD do you have the broad experience that you seem to convey to this board?
I have worked at a large scale lab in every facet from surfaceing to finishing to placing the surface saver tape on lenses to cleaning bathrooms. I still find myself swinging a toilet brush on occasion, if tht's what your asking. I worked for 1 year with a pediatric ophthalmologist where I assisted in 5 seperate occasions with surgical procedures, I have refracted in their office (less than a month total, ut enough to understand the process no where near ebough to master it), I ran a medium size optical for an ophthalmologist consisting of 4 different locations as the GM, I fix and update the computers in my office from installing software to replaceing faulty power supply and motherboards, I set up the network in our office as well as made a piece of furniture for the current office. I can tech 'em rack 'em and move 'em out.
I can fabricate difficult to make eyewear often in less time than it would take many of our outside labs to get over moaning about us sending them our tough work. You'll also find that I don't hide behind a false name and stand proudly behind my work and my statements. I have spent the better half of this thread pleading for solutions and the net total has been every O basically contributeing the same rederick to the thread that's always spewed. I am both tired of discussing these issue and tired of sharing the tricks I know as well.
By the way NPDR, I am not technically a manager and one of the stipulations for me workign where I do is that I cannot ever be refered to as a manager, although I do have many of the duties. I get paid fairly decent but by no means what I am worth. I also have a family and child which I value more than pay and benefits so for me I have found a good median between pay and time off and flexability in my job. Our office just recently recieved a platinum award from Safilo for shrewd purchaseing and this has been part of a extensive plan set out by me and executed by our staff. Our vendors hate us yet still value us, I bust everyones balls it's really just my personality I guess.
I have tried my best to remain neutral and to ask for any suggestions on how the profession of opticianry can see an acceptable and realistic expansion in scope. Many of the contributors here have doen nothing but fart in the wind, what I was hoping for instead of the statements of it will never happen is more along the lines of how it would happen.
I don't want to start anything and I hope your intentions aren't a personal attack on me when you asked the question but if it is I really don't want to hear it, but if you must please slander away, Doc.
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PS - Any of my posts if you feel that you can challenge even one of them I invite you to it. I have pictures of many of the tougher jobs I have done as well as a few oticiasn on this board I have fabricated some toughies for. I have images of frames I have personally made by hand as well as opticiasn on this board that have held in their hands frames I have made by hand. I have images of lenses that I have made that would boggle most opticians (for instance a bifocal made from a SV blank without cutting and gluing two pieces together). I enjoy making eyewear and probably spend more time readign about our indutry and participateing in it than most OD's have spent in school, sure it doesn't count for anything except to my patients. And after all that I am still no where near the best in my field which challenges me to learn more and to devour more information.
Me to fabricateing eyewear is like you to low vision, capish.
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*Dave at OptiVision has a web based tracer integration package that's awesome.
That maybe true but you never factored in that OMD's go to school on average 10 years and have huge bills to pay. Second you don't start making $50,000 you have to establish your self first get into a good practice and then after 2 or 3 years you may start making $50,000. I tell you one thing I would not want the bills of an OD or OMD from school.
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