Legally speaking....

[optical maven]

I have always (25 years) given the Px a copy of their Rx. It's their responsibilty after that, not mine. Why are the comments always: "if the doctor is in it for the money"? Are retailers only in this trade for altruistic reasons? I guess so: Free eye tests, free 2nd pair, free beer. I once had a young woman call me from Egypt, gone for a year, -8.00, with only one pair of contact lenses with her for the year!! One tore and she had no glasses. She asked me for her Rx, so I gave it to her. Yes, she had been counselled about extra glasses, extra contact lenses! Yes I gave a copy of her Rx before she left. Since I'm only in it for the money, I declined personally flying a new pair of lenses to her. I had ball tickets that weekend. Another scenario: Same person is a diabetic and they forget to purchase insulin. It is Christmas day and doctor is home with family. What to do? So many what ifs!

[Ginster]

Tell him to have a nice day. You have rules for a reason . The patient only has wants and no loyalty.

In the States it's every twelve months for a CL exam, and theres nothing we can do for this person, If maybe your Doc has an opening that day and can see him,,

[Cindy K]

I suppose it's a moot point in renee's case...but in our clinic we have pre-signed Rx pads for each O.D. so that the staff can write out a copy of the Rx for the patient if the doc isn't there or busy in the exam room. If, on the rare occasion, we run out of one doc's pad, we write in "as per Dr. so-and-so" above another doc's signature.

MLM, that has to be the most logical way to handle RX's I've ever heard of from an OD's office! If our office wasn't so far away, I'd be referring to you guys all the time! Doubt anyone will want to drive from the Valley into Van, but just 'cause of your office's way of doing business, I'll make it a point to refer Vancouverites to your place.

[Dave Nelson]

There are concepts in law that deal with reasonableness. What would a REASONABLE person do under these circumstances? Speaking from a regulatory perspective, since I chair the Inquiry Comittee of the College of Opticians of BC, (Dave watches while his optiboard popularity plummets like the stock market) I, we, have to consider the circumstances of whatever transgression has been comitted, if any. Often, if some transgrssion has occured, but there were extenuating circumstances, and the action was reasonable, the complaint could be dismissed, or maybe a mild reprimand. This is not to say any complaint could be overlooked, but reasonableness prevails. If an Optician can defend his/her actions, maybe handing over a disposable contact lens after doing a slit lamp check and recording verbal advice to a patient who is jammed up, far from home, and is likely to kill someone by driving on a dark rainy night with only one contact lens in, that the lens is only to be worn for one day....and there is no rx, well... those circumstances would be considered.

[chip anderson]

Dave:
Unfortuantely we cannot rely on "common sense" in govenment and other agencies in power in the U.S.
When I first came to Mississippi, unbenonst to me my new employer was being sued by the Board of Optometry for furnishing a sailor (acutally and O.D. who was not a sailor) with a pair of contacts without an Rx so he could get back to his ship.

Chip

[kws6000]

Tell him to have a nice day. You have rules for a reason . The patient only has wants and no loyalty.

I agree!

[Dave Nelson]

Chip, I did'nt say someone cannot be called on the carpet under those circumstances, just that the outcome may not be cut and dried. We once handled a complaint against a B.C. optician for refusing to falsify an extended health benefits form so her client could bilk his insurance company. Said client felt that, since the insurance company was "his", the optician had no right to refuse to falsify the form, and actually filed a formal complaint. The complaint was dismissed as frivolous, but holy smokers. :hammer:

[renee1111]

original post by Gary
Tell him to have a nice day. You have rules for a reason . The patient only has wants and no loyalty.
I agree!

What if the patient is loyal to my shop to begin with? But seeing as I'm the lowly Optician (who cannot legally refract...yet) I must rely on my competition, the OD's to supply my customers with their scripts. Now how do yah think that makes me feel?;) You OD's are so sensitive about patients walking with there RX's, it's kind of funny actually. Don't you realize that people have the right to shop around, glasses are an investment. And this is a business after all, were all trying to accomplish the same thing, make money to support our families and live a good life. So what if a patient walks out with their script, you made money off the checkup didn't you? If this becomes a trend, then take it as a hint...step-up customer service.
**I should clarify, when I say "you OD's" I don't mean, every single OD in the world, I mean the ones that are so sensitive about this issue in particular.

[Shwing]

Well, for what it is worth, I dispensed a pair of diagnostic lenses. He 'promised' to get a refraction, corneal check and file update/ lens assessment with me as well.

I wasn't about to punish the guy because he decided to buy elsewhere, especially as he is transient (oil rig worker). He needed corrective lenses, was in a bind, no contraindications other than being your average 25 year-old myope, so OF COURSE I helped him..

I think we take ourselves too seriously sometimes.

Common Sense should prevail.

[kws6000]

Well, for what it is worth, I dispensed a pair of diagnostic lenses. He 'promised' to get a refraction, corneal check and file update/ lens assessment with me as well.

I wasn't about to punish the guy because he decided to buy elsewhere, especially as he is transient (oil rig worker). He needed corrective lenses, was in a bind, no contraindications other than being your average 25 year-old myope, so OF COURSE I helped him..

I think we take ourselves too seriously sometimes.

Common Sense should prevail.

Sure he will .He will likely wear the diagnostic lenses until they hurt too much to continue wearing and then try to get another pair of trial lenses.

I dont adhere to your casual concern about potential liability issues.This guy is a disaster waiting to happen.

[LandLord]

From the original post, you have no idea what his Rx is. Impossible to make glasses.

As for the rules, I follow them routinely. But in an emergency, you have to put patient care first. I would break the law before I would let a high myope drive without correction. It's just that, in this case, there isn't much you can do unless you are willing and able to perform a refraction. But even then, you know it won't be final because it's not legal.

[Oedema]

From the original post, you have no idea what his Rx is. Impossible to make glasses.

As for the rules, I follow them routinely. But in an emergency, you have to put patient care first. I would break the law before I would let a high myope drive without correction. It's just that, in this case, there isn't much you can do unless you are willing and able to perform a refraction. But even then, you know it won't be final because it's not legal.

Aren't you looking at this a little backwards??? If you elect to follow the law, and tell the patient you can't help him without a valid Rx, and said highly myopic patient decides to drive, it is the patient that is liable here - not you. Of course you'd have a duty to warn, but why should you accept all of the liability for the patients irresponsibility?

[chip anderson]

When you break the rules, and we all do, it's best to keep your mouth shut about it. Maybe talk about it 20 years later when drinking with old cronies. Never publish on the net especially in view of those that would love to take you to court and show the world: Bad Evil Optician, he did this without my holy sanction.

Kind of like applying a tournique to an open artery without a doctor to tell you it's an open artery.

We all cheat a little the O.D.'s in my state were dispensing all sorts of drugs for allergy and pain long before they recieved the legislature's sanction to do so.

Opticians were fitting contacts in my state in 1898 (first US Patient for same in Scranton, MS) long before the O.D.'s even had any authority over them.

Chip

[LandLord]

If you elect to follow the law, and tell the patient you can't help him without a valid Rx, and said highly myopic patient decides to drive, it is the patient that is liable here - not you.

Look, I'm with you all the way on this. I'm not one to stick my neck out for anyone, especially for money. But liability is not the only concern. If you could help someone in need, with minimal risk to yourself, why wouldn't you?

[BMH]

In the States it's every twelve months for a CL exam, and theres nothing we can do for this person, If maybe your Doc has an opening that day and can see him,,

I just wanted to add that not every state requires a one year expiration. In Florida ODs can write for two years although many write for only one year.

I find Opticians in Florida that think it's one year only because the company they work for (Walmart) has its software automatically default to one year when entering the Rx so the "Opticians" don't even check the real Rx expiration date.

Florida law says if no expiration date is written that it is a two year Rx. Ods can expire it in one year if they chose and OD's can not write for less than one year unless supporting documentation is noted in the patient's file.

[chip anderson]

No one really cares unless the prescriber (or the board of optometry) files a complaint. So saying: "There is nothing I can do to get this patient by "isn't quite true. "There is nothing I will do to get this patient by" might be more accurate.
Every state (I think) has good symareritan laws that protect caregivers in emergencies. Very few nurses will let a patient die while waiting for the physician to arrive, so should we leave the patient functionally blind until the physician can take the time to see them, whether the problem is the result of the patient's negligance or miss-adventure?

Chip

[renee1111]

I've come to the conclusion that it boils down to professionnal incompetance! The OD's are just trying to make it seem more complicated than it actually is. You all want to be classified as a "Doctor"? I say pull up, and act like one, dam* it!!! Make your RX's accessible, no questions asked....it's your professionnal duty!

[eyemanflying]

They are not doctors and far from it. This is simply a misleading, overused term and confusing to the public. They are optometrists and nothing more.

[renee1111]

They are not doctors and far from it. This is simply a misleading, overused term and confusing to the public. They are optometrists and nothing more.

oh, right ...good call on that one!!

[Ory]

They are not doctors and far from it. This is simply a misleading, overused term and confusing to the public. They are optometrists and nothing more.

Sure, you're strongly opinionated. You probably also think you're the best optician out there, and for all I know you may be. But that gives you absolutely no right to call into question my qualification and title. Go take a long walk off a short pier.

[renee1111]

Sure, you're strongly opinionated. You probably also think you're the best optician out there, and for all I know you may be. But that gives you absolutely no right to call into question my qualification and title. Go take a long walk off a short pier.

Did you go to medical school? No, I didn't think so....

[Jacqui]

They are not doctors and far from it. This is simply a misleading, overused term and confusing to the public. They are optometrists and nothing more.

t
The term you should have used is physician. Doctor indicates an academic degree, Ory's is in Optometry, my Doctorate will be in Nursing.

[Ory]

Did you go to medical school? No, I didn't think so....

Don't be silly; If I went to med school, I wouldn't be an optometrist. If I went to med school I'd know almost nothing about the eye, but I'd sure be good at writing prescriptions for garamycin. I chose to go to optometry school to be an eye doctor.

And that's enough baiting. I'm sorry your local OD's office didn't give you a prescription right when your ignorant patient needed one. Taking it out on all us hard working professional ODs isn't going to help any though.

[Disclaimer: I have tons of respect for MDs, especially those in general practice. They deal with a lot of garbage all day and probably get the least compensation of any medical specialty. They usually don't know a lot about the eyes though, and the smart ones refer out when appropriate.]

[chip anderson]

We are no going to get anywhere bashing O.D.'s. We are dependent on them for Rx's no matter how reluctantly surrendered. They have much
more influence on things that get through the legislature that govern us.
The right or wrong of this is immaterial.
Our legislature and our otherwise excellent govenor passed a bill for all sorts of screening and aid for dyslexia. We all know there is next to nothing that can be done for dyslexia and odles and gobs of taxpayer money will be paid for tinted lenses, exercises, gadgets, etc. for same. The O.D.'s have this much power and influcence over legislatures.
We will gain nothing by opposeing them. We will never be powerfull or rich enough to accomplish anything exspecially now that the O.M.D.'s and O.D.'s have made friends and use each other for referral on such things as refractive surgery and follow up care.

We will have to find otherways to preserve ourselves especially now that we no longer have medical support.

Chip

[eyemanflying]

Sure, you're strongly opinionated. You probably also think you're the best optician out there, and for all I know you may be. But that gives you absolutely no right to call into question my qualification and title. Go take a long walk off a short pier.

1. Nowhere in my post did I indicate or portray that I was the best optician out there, so this is irrelevant.

2. I didn't call into question your qualifications. You indicate your are an Optometrist, and I'm simply providing the truth to your title; OD's are not Doctors. Unless you're a refracting MD or GP, this is a kick in the teeth to anyone who has earned a medical degree and is very misleading to the general public. When a customers calls me an Optometrist or Eye Doctor, I quickly correct them, and then explain the similarities and the differences.

3. Once I open my store and legally begin to produce top quality refractions to all my customers and eliminate referring them the OD, I will gladly take the plunge after that long walk on the short pier. But, until then you go first and take that negative, arrogant attitude that most OD's have with you.