stumbled upon this in another forum ...thought you guys would get a kick out of it.
An "all things considered" piece on NPR regarding a pair of transitions, a/r progressive for $100 purchased online (rather than the ones at the store that cost the same as a used car)
His 'excellent' optometrist informed him that the lenses are 25 cents and the frame is $1.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=89576384
Enjoy
AA
Thanks for the link.
I used to like Daniel Pinkwater, but now I'll reconsider buying his $12.99 book which was printed on twenty five cents worth of paper.
Besides the errors about the business (90% markup on frames?, etc.) there's the mistaken belief that the optician's job is easy: "You can have a friend take your PD with a metric ruler. . ."
We may soon see this headline: "Famous children's Book Author Crashes Car Because of Cheap Eyeglasses."
I heard this story on NPR, and I sent a comment to Pinkwater through his website. He reads the comments, replies, and posts the comment and reply on his website forum. When he posts it, I'll provide the link.
Andrew
"One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie
Where did you go to comment, what e-mail address in particular or link?Originally Posted by Andrew Weiss
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Gee...that's soooo surprising. I usually believe everything I hear on NPR.:hammer:
I wouldn't waste my energy on replying to his commentary.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Isn't this the type of blather that the NPR moonbats thrive on - and after all, they know whats best for all of us. But just remember, its your tax dollars that fund these people.
Heard it too Andrew and wanted to send in a letter my thought that as a writer all he really needs in life is a pencil! I'll bet you worded it better.:) I think he's speaking with a tongue in cheek voice about much of what we grouse about all the time of selling add ons to those who don't really need them.
This talk is going on over on ODwire as well. Seems like they pulled a bait and switch. The OD was holding some reading glasses, not the progressive photochromics or whatever.
This is why NPR should not be supported, its all a bunch of crap. Plus they always talk in a weird monotone voice.
I don't like NPR, but it wasn't a bait & switch. He said he bought reading glasses first, (RX), and took them to his OD, THEN he went and ordered the progressives.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
NPR?
I like some of the shows:
You bet your garden
CarTalk-Those wacky Brothers!
Other than that......it drains me!
My wife met him last year. She worked with me for 12 years in the lab end. When she hears this I expect she will have a different perspective on his opinions. When I cool off I will share my opinion of his opinion with him.:angry:
cancel cancel got it wrong
I just got a response from Mr. Pinkwater, the commentator on NPR who did this story. Fester, he's quite serious, as you'll see. Look at what he consders reasonable for us to be charging for those progressives! The response is thoughtful, whether I agree with him or not.
I sent him a response saying that I can barely purchase a good-quality name-brand progressive with Transitions and AR, plus a decent frame, for $200. I also mentioned that I am an independent, and share some of his perceptions about the problem with the large-chain stores and their reliance on "frame stylists" -- ask Fester to tell you about the lady who came into us with glasses made at LC with the progressives mounted upside-down!! I also asked him if he'd consider it more fair if we charged cost-of-goods plust cost-of-services.
Here it is:
"Thanks for your thoughtful comment. I, myself, do know how to measure the distance between my pupils, align and adjust frames, replace screws and nose pads, and also measure and mark lenses with pupil and bifocal height, am aware of matters of curve and tilt--most of this I learned by reading instructions from online opticians. As to verifying prescriptions, and whether centers are properly set, I have recourse to the optometrist and opthamologist. I do not insist that everyone should use internet opticians, nor that there are not deficiencies and problems apt to arise if you get your eyewear this way. But for the average prescription, their work compares well with that from the mall store--and many customers of these chains have stories to tell of wildly inaccurate prescriptions, and being advised by clerks, not professionals, to "wear it for a week or two--you'll get used to it." (With the exception of new wearers of progressive lenses, there should be no period of acclimatization necessary if the lenses are made correctly). And if Global Eyeglasses (using overseas labor with lower labor costs) can provide a good quality frame with brand-name progressive, photochromic CR-39 lenses, AR, UV and scratch-resistant coating for about $100, does the overhead of a brick-and-mortar optical shop really justify a price of $600 for something of the same quality? I am taking a wild guess that Global's cost would not exceed $50 for these glasses. Let's say the shop in the mall's all-in cost including overhead is $100--they buy the lenses and frames from the same source as Global does. (Both estimates are probably high). I'd think $200 might be a fair retail price. $600 strikes me as a monopolistic rip-off. I think there's a niche for a kind of square-deal optical shop, which would charge less than, "what the traffic will bear," and offer the one important feature the onliners can't adequately provide--the ability to try on frames, and receive personal advice and guidance from trained personnel. There are a few stateside opticians who offer service like this, at fair prices, notably Eyeglass Lens Direct, and Replace-a-Lens, and guess what--they are online opticians too!"
Andrew
"One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie
He should run for office - that's a lotta words without much content.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
So he thinks that you should be able to buy plastic transition progressives with AR in a decent frame for $200.00? And that opticians will still be making a profit at these prices?
I think what he doesn't understand is that just because a progressive is "name brand" doesn't mean much. The price differences between the cheapest and the more expensive progressives is HUGE. Same with frames and AR.
I can buy a new car for 12K. It will have many of the same features that a 30K car does but are they really the same thing?
Regretably, what he says about quality of in store eyeglasses and internet eyeglasses is true. Plently of people are happy with their cheap internet eyeglasses and many people have had problems with in store ones.
If he really can , as he states:
I, myself, do know how to measure the distance between my pupils, align and adjust frames, replace screws and nose pads, and also measure and mark lenses with pupil and bifocal height, am aware of matters of curve and tilt--most of this I learned by reading instructions from online opticians.
then, by all means, he and others like him *should* be able to save money (?) and purchase Rx eyewear in the manner stated.
I'll stand back and laugh when they eventually *crash*.
Hmm...seems like another good, new sub-specialty for the law (like Lasik has become).
Barry
I guess his response also begs the question of what is the monetary value of his opinions? Does he volunteer his services to NPR or does he receive some remuneration? How much should he earn from the sale of children's books?
Well Judy I get childrens books for $0.50 at the local Salvation Army for little Thomas, the Borders sells the very same books for $19.95 so the Borders must be a rip off according to him, right? My guess is that he's a rip off artist when it comes to his childrens books. After all I guess we could probably get them mass produced in china for less than what he charges.
I sent him a response to help him differentiate the lenses he got from what most will sell.
I also see the guys point, many on this board don't understand the concept of value. I hear all the time my patients only get the best lens, but their is a cost for that and if the alternative isn't offered they may be leaveing thinking that the only thing offered is the most expensive high tech lenses available. I catch flack for offering basic AR's and basic progressive lenses, but their is obviously a market for that and this is the market this talk show host is appealing too. I don't agree that we all boil down to the least common denominator when it comes to lenses. His photochromic progressives with AR may very well be an CR Adaptar in Transitions 3 with a single layer AR, at $200.00 for frame and lenses I can't imagine he got any better but I can think of worst.
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Do we have his address? We should all mail him a pencil! I'm sure he can find pieces of paper to write on at any recycling center. :)
Seriously, he has no clue (and is deaf to suggestions) as to how much it costs to run any business!
I agree with you Harry. Patients have the right to as many options as we do. Not everyone needs or wants all the bells and whistles and we do ourselves and our industry a great disservice by chosing to ignore all the options we have available.
I would be more than happy to fax him a copy of a lab bill for which I am charged for the item and treatments he wanted. Hehehe.
I would like to see what he got. My guess is that he did not get a "name brand" as we know it, cheap or otherwise. My guess is that he didn't get "transitions" or even "sunsensors" brand. The cheap progressives from China that are photo are 1.56 w/ no name photochromic.
If I am right, in 6 months his lenses will be a yellow color and won't activate anymore. But it won't matter because he won't be able to see out of the foggy AR anymore.
I am looking at this with less emotion than many of you. I want to know what my customers are thinking and what they really want and what they are thinking about buying at 11:00pm. Like Harry said, you have to understand that many people want the cheapest, many people want the best value, many want good stuff at a fair price and many want the best. I am concerned when I can't provide services for even one of these demographics (except the cheapest crowd), because in a saturated, small, and mixed demographic like mine; I need ALL the profitable customers I can get. We can no longer put our heads in the ground and claim that these internet specs "won't be right". Many of them are OK and many consumers are "OK" with them.
Anyway, our author, (who admitted that he has no optical knoledge or skills) - would he be willing to pay a local professional for adjustments?
I'm posting here my latest email exchanges with Daniel Pinkwater. I've put them in approximate order, with the earliest in this posting and the latest in the second.
From me to Daniel:
Thank you for your prompt response to my previous posting on internet
opticians. I'd love to know what brand-name progressive you got. The sad
reality is that I cannot purchase a good-quality brand-named progressive
lens (like Varilux or Zeiss) in photocromic CR39 with fine quality
anti-reflective coating, plus a decent-quality frame, for $200 wholesale
cost. And my situation is no different that that of any other independent
optometrist/optician. The only folks who can do that are the big chain
stores because they buy in such bulk. Of course, those are the places that
hire those "frame stylists" who don't know what they're doing and make a
mess of things.
Right now the cost of services over the lifetime of your eyeglasses is
rolled into the purchase price. Some of us are considering going to a
different pricing model entirely: cost of goods plus cost of services. Would you consider that a more fair method?
I am a bit disappointed because I'd figured you to be someone who would
support locally-owned independent enterprises rather than the big chains.
Again, thanks for listening.
Andrew --
From Daniel to me:
I would support locally-owned independent enterprises rather than the big chains if there were any in my vicinity that didn't model their price structure and practices on those of their competitors down at the mall. I tell a lie--there is one guy in a nearby town who is excellent, but I got seduced by very cheap prices, and haven't seen him in a few years.
I can buy a good-quality brand-name progressive lens (like Essilor Adaptar) in photocromic CR39 with fine quality anti-reflective coating, for __less__ than $200_ _retail__, from Eyeglass Lens Direct or Replace-a-Lens, both stateside online opticians--check their websites for prices. Global Eyeglasses, office in NY, but labs who knows where, offers Younger Image and Rodenstock lenses in photochromic progressives for about $100. They list Varilux, Zeiss and other brands, in other materials, as well, at higher prices. Check their website too. They also appear to offer their services as a lab for opticians--maybe you'll find that of interest.
As to the markups on frames--it is to laugh. For all I know there are one or two factories in China churning out practically all the frames there are--the price determined by the brand or designer name that gets stamped on them. Currently I favor a Tag Heuer frame from Global that cost me $24.99--seems to be available for around $250 in shops here.
I have plenty of gelt, and can afford, should I wish, to visit a nice shop, avail myself of expert advice, select a nice frame, and order lenses--I just happen to like a bargain. However, someone with limited, or today strained, resources who takes an awful beating to get the glasses they need will do well to consider the option of buying online.
Andrew
"One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie
Second exchange. His and my emails crossed in the ether. I think you'll find his contains a really interesting idea. Probably many of us already do this, but not in the "menu" fashion he envisions:
From me to Daniel (he received this after his response, posted below, but I wrote it before I read his):
Daniel,
Thank you for such a prompt and thoughtful response. You are so right about eyeglass frame prices, and you may know that we retailers don't pay the $5 it probably costs the factory in China to make them. The money to be made in frames is in the wholesalers, not the retailers. Again, our prices are higher because we bundle in the cost of servicing that pair of glasses over its lifetime, which, for most folks, is at least 2-4 years.
I agree that some optical shops do not have a sense of value for their products. I agree that there are some opticians out there who don't do a good, professional job. However, there are those of us who do. And many offices, like ours, offer "Value Packs" for adults and children where money is an issue. The adult Value Pack progressive (a Navigator), together with top-quality AR coating and a decently-made frame with 2-year warrantee, costs the patient $195. The kid's Value Pack single vision, in polycarbonate with the same AR and 2-year-warranted frame, costs $145. Adding Transitions brings that price up another $80 because Transitions does not discount its lenses in the US. These patients get the same quality, lifetime service that I give the ones who buy the more expensive titanium or designer frames or the more sophisticated progressive lenses.
The Adaptar and Image are nice progressives but quite old designs. Are the new, and by far more expensive, progressives any better? I've worn all the ones you mentioned and the new ones too, and I advise my patients based on my experience: the newer ones are easier to use, have less distortion, larger and easier to find reading areas, and provide more crisp vision. An Adaptar or Image in Transitions with an inexpensive single-layer AR coating, which I don't sell to most people because it scratches more easily and is harder to keep clean than the newer (and more expensive) ones, is a package which I could sell for $200 for the lenses only. I figure into that price enough profit to keep the doors open, keep a frame inventory, and have money to pay my mortgage, buy food for my family, and maybe even drive my car on an occasional vacation.
I've prattled on long enough. Thanks for listening, and for engaging in this exchange.
Andrew.
And, from Daniel to me:
Andrew --
I did some self-googling and came upon the lively discussion at Optiboard. If you care to share with your colleagues, This is what I'd like to see: A menu. I think it would be very helpful if there were a signboard listing brands, types, and prices. Then a customer could ask, "What is that lens I see there for $59?" and the optician could say, "That is the Essilor Adaptar, an older design, perfectly servicable lens, which many people find satisfactory." And the customer could ask, "What is that Anti-Reflective coating for $30? Do I need that?" And the optician could say, "Not really, but you might like it." Etc. I think the main appeal of the online opticians I cited, besides the savings, is the array of offerings to be regarded without pressure--missing in most cases is someone to explain them, so only the adventurous (like me) are apt to take the plunge.
Andrew
"One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie
This just in from Daniel Pinkwater:
"Well, I'll tell you, Andrew, I like opticians and optometrists--they're usually intelligent people, and if I hadn't gotten lucky as a writer, I might have considered a career in those fields. Various jokes at my expense aside, (and who can blame the jokesters, given what went out on NPR?), I found the comments on Optiboard thoughtful, and indicative of responsible professionals who want to do the best for their clients."
:cheers::cheers:
Andrew
"One must remember that at the end of the road, there is a path" --- Fortune Cookie
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