curious.....

[Jeff Trail]

I was wondering what everyone is "paying" for the Solamax in spectralite, BTW I do own a wholesale and and am getting ready to add it to my list of product line I'm around the $65 range... is this out of step with the rest of the market?
I know from talking to a couple of guys on here my price range is a little lower then alot of other labs so I figure what the heck, find out what everyone else is paying BEFORE I set a price...
I'm not looking to "add" any of you guys as accounts but was just wondering what the going price was for the lens... I have a few pair coming in I'm going to try on a few of my OD's and opticians and was just curious as to what everyone was paying..BTW it won't really make a difference what you are paying I'm just bouncing between the $62 to $65 range and havn't really made up my mind..I was just curious :)
OH and Steve, are you guys planning to add this design in anything else besides just Spectralite? ie. Transitions etc. etc...That will be the first question I get from my accounts :)

Jeff

[Steve Machol]

Jeff,

I honestly don't know what the plans are for future materials in SolaMax. I'm really not involved in that part of the business. I'll check into it though.

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Steve
OptiBoard Administrator

[karen]

Jeff, I don't know what we are paying (they won't tell me that stuff) bur I do know we are offering it to our accounts at CR39 prices which had been very well received. I can also tell you that the limited amount of feedback I have gotten has been all good. Having that available in the Trans Quantum would be super cool-hopefully that will be next.

[Steve Machol]

Jeff,

Here's what I found out. There are plans to introduce SolaMax in polycarbonate, but as of now there is no definite timing for this release. Other materials, including Transitions, are being considered.

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Steve
OptiBoard Administrator

[Jeff Trail]

Karen,

CR39 prices? Compared to what design? My CR 39 prices in PAL's runs from $26 all the way to $72 depending on the design :)I get Col. 7 prices.. it's the price you are SELLING the lens at..not what you are getting it for from Sola :)


Steve ... Poly? Just an opinion but you lens guys :) are trying to hard to stuff poly's down everyones throats ... I know that the MAJORITY of my accounts hate poly so why the big push on EVERY new product in a poly choice only, in most cases?
As an example, the Sunsensors, they came out in a 1.56 and I have sold a ton of those so far, other then the Navigator was not in my opinion the best PAL design out there.
I know from all the guys I know that work for the lens companies (Essilor,Signet Armorlite, AO ) have this bug in the bonnet that everything needs to be in poly and are trying to reshape the market to fit THEIR perception of the market.. got any opinions on why?
Last but not least.. I know a few guys that work for PPG and ones that are dual employee's for PPG & Transitions America and they are all excited about this new polymer that Simula Inc. developed (that PPG bought the Lic. for :) ) that is as strong as poly but abbe value closer to CR39 .. heard anything about that?
Maybe I shoulda started another thread for this one but was just "curious" about this one to ... boy I'm just full of questions today......

Jeff "poly shmolly ... I hate it" Trail

[This message has been edited by Jeff Trail (edited 07-06-2000).]

[Steve Machol]

Jeff,

I'm not sure I'd agree that SOLA and other lens manufacturers are 'trying hard to stuff poly's down everyones throats.." I honestly don't think that's the case.

Speaking only for myself and not SOLA, I think the recent emphasis on poly products is coming from the classic 'supply-and-demand' model of capitalism. In other words, poly has grown to around 17% of the U.S. market because of customer demand - not manufacturer preferences.

IMHO there appears to be a big difference in poly usage between wholesale and retail customers. This may be why you don't see as much usage in your business.

As for the Simula polymer, I think this is a very interesting development. I'm looking forward to seeing if this is really as good as claimed. I've been around long enough to realize that there's a long road between promising R&D developments and viable products. :)

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Steve
OptiBoard Administrator


[This message has been edited by Steve Machol (edited 07-06-2000).]

[Jeff Trail]

Steve,

I heard from the guys I know it's past the R&D stages and they are in the process of rolling it out in a couple of months :)
If it is as good as these guys are all talking about it's going to sure add to the wild mix of materials.. I'm just waiting to see what type of pricing it will be and what type of lab processing it will need ... from what I heard from these guys it's going to be like running any other CR39 material and not have the scratching problems you have inhouse with poly...
I still think it's interesting and it has been a while since I seen these guys as excited as they are about this product... if you find out anything keep us posted :)

Jeff

[Chad Huber]

Hiya Jeff,

As far as the original question for this topic...I am gettting the Solamax for $55.96 PLUS a $10.00 Exxon gas card for each pair ordered. (I wonder what marketing gimmick these guys will come up with next
Usually I put all the "spiff" **** in file 13 where it belongs...but $55.00 for a really decent low seg prog and 10 bucks of Iraq's Finest....not a bad deal.

As for your second question...I must be living in a vaccuum (Or I don't have any well connected friends....or any friends for that matter I haven't heard anything about the new magic material. Please spread the news among the uninformed masses.


Chad "It's still about the Benjamins" Huber

P.S. I noticed the "add" pun in your original post and choose to respect you anyway...LOL

[This message has been edited by Chad Huber (edited 07-06-2000).]

[Jeff Trail]

Chad,

Holy cow someone posted a actual price I'm still debating on what price I want to charge .. I was thinking about the $60's range since it is a mid index lens but if I give them a try and find they are better then the AO then I'll probably go around that price..$53.. I know I don't like the Compact all that well so I would love to find a good replacement for it in my product line...
PPG is planning to combine Simula's polymer with its monomer and coatings for "high end" prescription lens... so you figure out that double talk :) .. I would say it's going into the high index and mid index stuff so all the lens companies will stay happy :) .. another thing I seen written was a lot of the "lens casting" companies are working, or will be working with it (J&J,2C,Hoya etc. etc.) we'll see.
It was done under a Goverment type R&D and you know thats where poly came from originally.... here's the quote "has the same high optical quality and stability of hard resin with the impact strength and scratch resistance EXCEEDING polycarb"
That and what I can gather from some of the guys I know it sounds like the range of base curves maybe a little wider, which I know is a nightmare for those guys trying to produce steep curves in poly and high index materials...
It's interesting, we'll wait and "see" :)

Jeff" fire the "puns", we'll "see" if it's "adds" up" Trail

[Jerry Thornhill]

Jeff,
Check out the website www.intercast.it on the new polymer by Simula. They are calling their version Sinter APX 2000. Since they have a working agreement with Luxottica we will be seeing their offerings shortly. PPG say they will release it in the 4th quarter.
Poly is introduced by all the leading manufacturers because of duty to warn. Some establishments will offer no product unless it is Poly.
My feedback on the SolaMax is that it is far better than Compact. I got that again today from a dispenser who had just changed a person from Compact to the Sola Max.
Another lens which Karen the Princess has referred to is the Piccolo. The results have also been good.
Karen if you are reading this Princess beats my usual pet names for you.

Jerry

Jeff have Karen give you the price that they are selling SolaMax. You will definitely make more money using her price.


[This message has been edited by Jerry Thornhill (edited 07-06-2000).]

[Jeff Trail]

Jerry,

Thnx for that link.. that sight was VERY informative, once I found the button for the English translation :) I can speak some German and some French but reading either is still and always will be a nightmare for me
I guess these guys are already rolling out lens with this polymer, so it looks like they are past the R&D stage Steve :)
I contacted them and hope to get a few samples to see what it's like and maybe if they have some semi-finished blanks and supply all the info (index etc. etc. ) I'll try surfacing a few to see how that works..
BTW Jerry did you use any of the Sunsensor's yet? I know it's Corning but the ones I got from Signet Armorlite were made in England and I got some finished SV from V.E. in the Sunsensor's and they were MADE in China.. pretty weird... I tried some lens from Hong Kong awhile back that were pretty nice (Acrylic) but the amount you had to order was just to much for me to make it economical.. Oh well it just gets more interesting everyday..

Jeff

[Texas Ranger]

Jeff, I think it's irrelevant what anyone else is charging for any product. You are a unique lab and provide a unique service, your price is the price we pay for the quality of product and service. Hey, Sola isn't surfacing their lens are they? It costs you to inventory the lens blanks, shipping cost's, material supply costs and labor costs. So, if you've got top staffing, you're taking care of your people. So, you need to charge what you need to charge. Another point, I hated poly too, until I got a dry cut edger, now it's fine. Also the optics on the new poly lens materials like "airwear" are much better. Want a good low position pal, check out the Pentax AF Mini. Al.

[Framebender]

Jeff,

My comp SolaMax just came in this morning billed out at $32.50 per lens. This lab is high for my area but they do pretty work. My regular lab is at $29.00 per before discount.

I hope you're having fun & making money!

Framebender

[Jeff Trail]

[quote]Originally posted by Al:
Another point, I hated poly too, until I got a dry cut edger, now it's fine. Also the optics on the new poly lens materials like "airwear" are much better.[QUOTE]

Oh they have "improved" some in the quality of poly, water white compared to the older stuff, but still because of the way poly's are produced (high pressure heat injection) I still don't like all the internal stress distortion you get on top of the lower abbe value .. I'm waiting to see how much this new stuff (polymer) will hopefully improve things :) BTW I prefer have a dual edger cuts half dry but the last few times around on the finish its wet.. sure makes for a smoother finish and less problems on knife edges :)

Want a good low position pal, check out the Pentax AF Mini. Al.[/I]

I already checked out the Pentax but the main problem I have is the very limited amount of power range you can get out of the lens.. My main problem is that I tend (because of the area I'm in) to get more hype RX's then myopic (you know FL. :) )and the other problem is the vast majority of my accounts either do not care or don't want to stay up on the lens and what they are available in (material and design) so I always am getting orders for things that don't exists .. Like high index -xtra active PAL's..sheesh I have told them a zillion times they can't get it but, turn right around and order it again a couple days later
I figure I'm going to settle for a price in the mid 50's on the Solamax and drop the Compact, I really didn't like the design all that much and A.O. is a fairly hard company to deal with .. it's a toss up between A.O and Signet Armorlite which companies has the biggest B.O problems :) Right now it's S.A.... they are running around a 35% back order and some days as high as 50% !! I got some lens in the other day I had ordered in NOVEMBER.. that's right NOVEMBER of 99!! Tell me that's not crazy.. and to beat all the A-HOLES shipped it overnight and charged more for xtra for "shipping" it to me so quickly
Thanx for the impute Al and all the rest in this thread.. BTW if you get a chance go check out that link Jerry had in his posting about that polymer.. it's pretty interesting

Jeff" grind'em if ya got'em" Trail

[Jerry Thornhill]

Jeff,
Sorry that I forgot to warn you about the English button.
I have a couple of Sinter samples. They don't sound like Poly. I am curious if it is the new material? It will be hard to get anything out of Italy until September, they close for vacation the month of August.Wouldn't be a bad practice here.

My Sun Sensors from Vision Ease have a made in Singapore. I saw something different on one of the Armorlite boxes but do not remember what it was.

Speaking of backorders have you tried ordering a 1.56 FT-35 from VE lately? AO Compact 1.60 has some real delays also.

Just noticed on an invoice from Armorlite that they are changing their Polycarbonate and to watch for new product and processing information.

Jerry

[Jay A. Little]

Jeff, I agree with you on your opinion of Poly.If Poly is such agreat material, why isn't it sold in big numbers in Europe and Asia? It has poor transmittance 85% a bad ABBE 30, and most people don't plan on getting shot in the eye with a 22.There is only one reason Poly has achieved the market share it has in this country, It is cheap.

[John R]

It seems to me that opticians are pushing poly more in the uk now, but maybe the british public arnt quite as gullible ;) as the us public, Susing out the fact that poly dont last very long before you got to go buy a new pair because of all the marks they pick up. I can rember wearing poly visors on bike helmits and having to buy a new one every week because of all the scratches and the problems they cause night driving :D

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Every day a grind
Every week a bind
www.iooi.co.uk

[Jeff Trail]

Originally posted by Jay A. Little:
Jeff, I agree with you on your opinion of Poly.If Poly is such agreat material, why isn't it sold in big numbers in Europe and Asia? It has poor transmittance 85% a bad ABBE 30, and most people don't plan on getting shot in the eye with a 22.There is only one reason Poly has achieved the market share it has in this country, It is cheap.

Jay,

You seen Steve's mention of how "poly" has grown in market share.. BUT I think it is misleading, from what I have seen the "chains" are the reasons it has grown, not the private care locations.
It boils down to $$$ not optical quality, if I'm a chain and I can dispense out a poly intead of going with a higher degree of optical quality in a mid index design then I'm going for the bucks :) The bad part is a whole "slice" of techs that came into optics in the last few years really don't even understand about how different the materilas are, they only know the "chain" pitter patter .... and to prove it, I had a so called "lic." optician explain to me how those distortion stress marks in a lens you can see under a polaris scope is a mark of high "quality" ..the rep who explained it to them said it was like seeing the temper in a "glass" lens, showed how good it was.. sheesh ...
Oh well guess we better get used to "dumbing" down in our little optical industry...

Jeff"still bases his lens selection on QUALITY .. not what I can get cheapest" Trail

[azthoth]

The proliferation of poly in the marketplace has a lot to do with LC. In fact, after I left that odious company I still had people coming into the higher end stores I was managing and asking for 'featherwates'. The power a company willing to spend millions of dollars to affect consumer perception is no small thing...