We have been using the Seiko Succeed product for a few months now and are experiencing some disappointment with the "super hydro" AR. it is very green and not at all slippery. anyone else having this issue? also, how about the fact that they market (two page ad in Vision Monday) the lens under Perfas but don't sell that brand to wholesale laboratories.
I tried the Succeed and basically gave up on it. They made a lot of hyped up claims, but we had a TON of non-adapts.
What is the reason for the non-adapts ?Originally Posted by IndianaOD
Can you describe the methods used to fit , verify and adjust the lens ?
What is a "ton" of non-adapts ?
What was in common with each of the non-adapts ?
Eye strain, things seemed magnified, distorted, blurred distance vision.
1. monocular PDs, Seg Ht center of pupil in primary head posture
2. around 50%, many who did much better when switched to a Creation or other lens
3. Not sure, complaints of magnified image, blurred distance, eye strain, you name it
too long time ? because traditional pal are too small segment for computer and reading, therefore computer lens to enlarge area for reading. May something about the Rx, can you tell what the pt full Rx and add ?Eye strain, things seemed magnified, distorted, blurred distance vision
complain blurred distance ? it is a computer pal !
SORRY FOR POSTING WRONG REPLY ON DIFFERENT TOPIC
Last edited by au; 03-28-2008 at 11:41 PM.
How did you solve it ? What did the REPS for the product say and do to solve it ?
too long time ? because traditional pal are too small segment for computer and reading, therefore computer lens to enlarge area for reading. May something about the Rx, can you tell what the pt full Rx and add ?
complain blurred distance ? it is a computer pal !
SORRY FOR POSTING WRONG REPLY ON DIFFERENT TOPIC
Huh? Is that English? The Succeed is NOT a computer Rx.
Solved it by not fitting it anymore! :D
One lab said to try the Succeed Wide and Short, it sounded like others were having problems with it as well.
You fit your progressives at center of pupil? We used to do that when the UltraVue came out. Now we have 98% adaptation by fitting three mm below center, or iris-level. Stopped all our complaints about distorted vision,magnified image, etc.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Just got my first pair of succeed Seiko to dispense. I'll let you know customer reaction. I trusted because the rep & the info were the first to talk about soft and hard design. My customer was in essilor (soft design) and if I had put him in a hard design he would have feel "the progressive step"... But my dilemma was should strong myopic with some cyl be in hard design and same question with presbio... what's best for each case according to the rx. Hard or soft? I'll try it for myself. Already have Hoya ID + Zeiss Gt2, next will be Seiko. Will be back with comments. Don't forget that the fitting point on Seiko PAL is at 180 degree... May be that where was the problem...
au is from hk - possibly hong kong? and perhaps English is not his primary language, so give the guy/gal a break. Try being rude in Chinese if you think it is so easy.
My first year college English professor would not allow anyone in the class to utter Huh, Um, Uh, and a multitude of ,as he put it, vocal clutter and had foam pool float he would hit you with if you did.
沒有需要是粗魯和不恭的。我們是her..well 我們中的大多數是無論如何!! 的所有朋友! 飲料!!!
:D:cheers:;):cheers::D
well, I never. or at least I don't think I did.
k12311997 THANKS !!!
I post the wrong thread on his post about computer pal. This teach me next time be more carefull on the post.
:cheers:
Last edited by au; 04-16-2008 at 03:17 AM. Reason: spelling
Its no problem, I just couldn't understand your train of thought.
-- to the other poster.
Why would I set the seg ht lower? I'm sure millions in R&D went into the lenses and they are desiged to be fit at the middle of the pupil.
How many times have you see millions go into R&D only to be thrown out by way of experience learned?
Seriously, next time you have a patient non-adapt, check the seg height. If it's center of pupil, drop it a couple mm.Our success rate with progressives skyrocketed simply by doing this.:cheers:
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Then you have patients complain that they have to tip their head way back to read or see intermediate. All I know is that the remakes were 10x more common in these than our Comforts, Ellipses, Piccolos, and Creations.
How about a 'happy medium' regarding seg heights? I agree with Dragon on not using the center of the pupil. I fit at the bottom of the pupil and have had much greater success than dead center. Dead center doesn't give you much fitting error room especially with a zyl frame that can't be raised and lowered via pad arms. If you're concerned about how far down they must look to enter reading zones, consider NOT fitting lenses that were originally designed to fit 21mm high so you're working with shorter corridors.
-Tony
And we had lots of no-adapts with the SolaMax, even fitting a bit low, they didn't like the distance vision.
And yes, we have had a few patients complaining about neck movement. All of them, however had the same complaint and the same demonstration of their complaint.
"Well, to see at a distance, I have to do this!!" Patient puts chin on chest and bends over forward peeping out of the top 1mm of the frame. "And to see up close I have to do this!" Patient bends head all the way back and leans backwards and looks out of the bottom 1mm of the frame.
No way is there that much travel in a lens. Usually it turns out they want to get a FT and get the money difference refunded because they're short this week. When we explain there is no refund on the difference, suddenly the lenses seem to work OK.:hammer:
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
I can't remember how I handled the first generation of lenses, beyond the fact that they didn't function very well no matter where you put the FC. I do remember having occasional distance problems with the pre- Comfort/Life- generation of lenses, especially with myopes and low plus. My solution was like yours: lower the FC one to three millimeters depending on the Rx and prior history.
However, about ten years ago I noticed that during the dispensing walk-thru, clients would report that they were able to tip their heads back slightly without distance blur. I responded by placing the FC center pupil, and can't think of more than two or three times where I had to remake, and that was because I had misjudged their standing posture, resulting in a FC position above the pupil center. They now report clear vision on the distance gaze without any increase in clarity if they lower their chin slightly.
I would also propose that if you do encounter on-axis distance problems, or if you're trying to provide the best distance vision possible, it would be better to lengthen the corridor instead of lowering the FC. This will keep the optics aligned with the lens designers intended position.
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
Because the average frame will have 8 - 10o of pantascopic tilt present, which means for every 2 degrees roughly you should lower the seg height 1mm which I don't see many opticians do, with the progression starting right at the PRP in the case of the Seiko's I have found that they are tougher to fit if you throw proper fitting out the window and just fit the them the way most would do without any account for tilt. Another way of determining seg height is to tilt the patients chin back untill the frame exhibits zero panto tilt and then take your seg height. Amazing all that money in R and D and they could have just spent a few more bucks on teaching proper fitting techniques.
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We've been using the new Seiko lenses for a couple months now. Succeed, Superceed etc. No problems. No non-adapts, atleast. Just your normal everyday simple-fix issues that every pal has. That being said, we just got comped a couple pairs, so we randomly gave them to patients getting new pairs, and put them in their old ones at no charge. Hopefully we'll get some feedback. We'll see how that goes. :)
Harry,
Do you mean lower the OC? The seg height should essentially stay the same for different degrees of panto angle.
I would fit the Seiko just like any other general purpose PAL: pre-adjusted frame and bisect the pupil. One nice thing about the Seiko design, with its FC at the same height as the PRP/180 line- it provides an easy way to eliminate distance VI if you're working with an anisometropic Rx and the lens must be a PAL.with the progression starting right at the PRP in the case of the Seiko's I have found that they are tougher to fit if you throw proper fitting out the window and just fit the them the way most would do without any account for tilt.
When measuring the seg height for a general purpose PAL, the head should not be tilted and the eyes should be looking straight ahead. What you describe is ok for determining the proper OC height when there is panto, primarily with high power lenses and/or aspherics.Another way of determining seg height is to tilt the patients chin back untill the frame exhibits zero panto tilt and then take your seg height. Amazing all that money in R and D and they could have just spent a few more bucks on teaching proper fitting techniques.
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
Itīs quite normal to mount japanese lenses 2-3 mm below the pupil center.
Actually itīs more the rule than the exception.
Remember that.
A Autograph from Shamir you always has to fit in the center of the pupil.
The lens is developed to be mounted that way, but usual not the japanese lenses.
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