Problem with Panamic
Lately a large number of patients have been having problems with Varilux Panamic ( a lens which we have used to fit patients for the last 2 years, with out a problem). Now a large majority of patients are non-adapts. I don't know why. We have checked Rx, seg ht, PD, the common things you would think of.
Does anyone one know if they have changed the lens in any way?
At this point I want to stop using Panamic and start using another PAL, any suggestions on which one?
Thanks!
The question I would ask you is are these problem patients presently wearing Panamic or are you switching them from another PAL? If so, which PAL are they wearing presently?Originally Posted by marslatte
Regards,
Golfnorth
Some patients are new PAL wearers. Others were fitted in Ovation in previous years. I was under the impression that Panamic was a better PAL, is this incorrect?
Thanks!
As far as I am aware Panamic has not been a succesful lens:(
In that case should I continue using ovation? And do you have any suggestions as to good PAL that has not given you trouble?
I suggest you stick with the Ovation. The Panamic is "supposed" to be better but for many people it isn't.
Have you ever had any problems with it? If not, stick with it. Try the Ellipse or Definity Short for smaller frames.
my opinion: Ovation was the best lens created by Essilor (including Varilux) at any price prior to Ellipse.
Another poster on the board stated that many people don't go from Ovation to other lenses very well. We don't know why.
My own observations (and many other agree) is that a new wearer may do OK w/ Panamic. But it is so super soft that previous PAL wearers don't like it. They are already used to "harder" lenses. Going soft for them is going backwards. Don't go softer unless the patient is asking for it.
The consensus is that Panamic will go away. Stop dispensing it now.
Stick to same type.....................
Actually every time you change lenses you usually do it with an increased addition. That makes a narrower progressive area, plus a larger area of distortion. This already needs a getting used to, because there is a difference from the old lenses.
If you switch them to another type the getting used to is even increased at this stage. It be preferable to stick to the same type lens they had before.
Marslatte,
Have you checked your pupillometer for accuracy? I once discovered one that measured every right eye at 33.5. Yeah, we had some non-adapts until discovered...
-Tony
Ditto for me too, until I discovered it..
Barry
PS: Maybe one of the *benefits* of Panamic has 'worn off". I distinctly remember that one of the original dispenser brochures from Varilux stated that Essilor studies showed that wearers of the new Panamic progressive lens recognized objects...(wait for it)....
"0.25 seconds faster"
FWIW
Barry
On the subject of pupilometers if the nose is wonky doesn't it throw the measurements off
Assuming the frame will sitting on the wanky nose when all is said and done, no.
And now for Panamic. The lens was not what they thought it would be and it is being phased out. Haven't used it since Ellipse came out myself.
What could possibly be wrong with Panamic?
It was designed with "Global Design Management". That alone proves it is awesome. Right?
Sarcasm Mode=OFF!
i have found the hard way also -
I am not a big fan of the panamic myself -
and forget about changing folks from the comfort or others into it - i have been told this right off the bat from our varilux rep - and this is one issue she was right on -
I have had great success using the Accolade with almost all of my pts - ( maybe not the ellipse - or free form pts ) - but almost every other one - i have tried it with -
isn't this lens with in the ovation line ? i may be wrong - but recall reading this somewhere here - ?
B
Good point. That might explain some or almost all of the OP's problems. I found the change from a 1.25 to a 1.75 just as disconcerting as the original 1.25, and had to re-learn how to use my eyes all over again, primarily due to changes in the reading depth and depth of focus, on top of the increased distortion (boundary blur and swim/motion) that you mentioned.
Sometimes it does, and it's not always the nose, sometimes it's due to unequal nasal lens thickness interfering with the pad position. I use these measurements as a starting point, marking the lenses of the selected pre-adjusted frame, confirming that what I'm measuring is realistic and absolute.
What I would like to have is a high tech (a more versatile and accurate) version of the Grolman Fitting Device.
http://www.optiboard.com/forums/atta...7&d=1055783007
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
What monocular P.D.s are for is wonky noses. Whether taken with a pupilometer or a ruler. If you average them out, you ain't doin' da' job.
I think you need one or two less dots to represent 0.25 sec.....there.:bbg:
I was actually invited, and attended the introduction of the Panamic lens in Tampa. Essilor knows how to market and do it up right. 3 beautiful days in a ritzy hotel with a sunset view out the hotel window, they brought this dude in for one night of entertainment that drew huge pictures upside down and sideways, he made caricatures of famous people, like jimmy hendricks. They had gourmet food every day, and got in many CE courses at their expense. Had to sit through 3 days of boring frenchmen talking of double blind studies in france and illinois, comparing the design of the panamic as opposed to the comfort having more positive comments from every quadrant of the lenses. They made every attendant a new pair of panamic, which was delivered to us on the last day, was first only available in poly, what they later called Airwear,lol Anyway, I can remember comparing the new ones to the comfort I was presently wearing, and I immediately liked my comforts better, in every quadrant of vision. Upon my return, we always start off slowly until we get responses from our patient base, and I am glad we did. The response was negative then, and I have seen nothing to improve my thoughts of them since. real downer.
Panamic - It’s time to move on….
At the time Panamic was introduced there was great deal of concern about Johnson & Johnson entering the progressive lens market. The marketing strategy at the time was strong; the idea was to flood the market with new products in an attempt to steal the thunder from Johnson and Johnson. As a result some products (Panamic and others) may have been rushed to the market place and introduced before their time! Of course we all know what happened to Johnson & Johnson.
Anyone actually know why this lens didnt work that well??:(
Maybe due to it is a extra-soft design, either distance, intermediate and near has not enough clear area than comfort. However people who complain comfort (esp 1st time wearer) will have totally different comment on panamic.
Sometimes if the comfort fit slightly lower than normal pt wil still be ok to do the reading. However panamic at same situation will have bad result due to it's design.
:cheers:
I ever have problem same you ... au
In my opinion ... In new wearer should to used varilux comfort more than
varilux panamic because panamic is narrow visual field than comfort in all distance ... bacause panamic is more soft than comfort
Panamic is good for who is ever used economic PALs and upgrade to
panamic ... the patient will say this lens is comfortable.
Hmm, I´m a bit confused here. Isn´t Panamic meant to be the higher-end lens compared to the Comfort, hence *more expensive*? At least the naming, that reminds of "panoramic", seems to imply you get a very wide field of view.
Also, what the width on the usual visual field is, IMHO depends on the viewer. It seems that many people are not so much disturbed by already considerable amounts of surface astigmatism, but much more by image distortion ("swim") and more sudden changes of aberrations. These people would consider a "soft design" a design with a wider usuable field of view.
If you instead are picky with the width of the almost aberration free area and can live with more aberrations and distortion outside of that (like me), you really won´t like a very soft design and condiser a "hard design" as the one with a wider field of view.
I thought that the reason that many new presbyopes are likely of the first kind and you want to sell more PALs early in the lifecycle is one of the reasons for going "soft" of many companies.
The public and yes, us super intelligent optical experts often confuse the word "new" with the word "better." We tend to believer that words, like new and improved. Indicate a better product. Many believe that more expensive must be better.
Perhaps some day we get educated enough to be actually smart.
Chip
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