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Thread: Colors of A/R

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    Bad address email on file Alteaon's Avatar
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    Colors of A/R

    I am looking for a list of what colors the various anti-reflective coatings are. Any help would be great.

    Thanks,

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    Rising Star slubberdegullian's Avatar
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    A true a/r is light green with a hint of yellow.super et a/r is a purpleish color and gold is gold. so if you order regular a/r and it comes out a differant color that would be considered a mistake of blended gases and so on.hope this helps:D

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    Alize, Crizal, RF, UTMC, Zeiss Carat and Carat Advantage (can get in three colours), and Hoya Hi and Super Hi-Vision = Green

    D Alize, Teflon, Zeiss Carat and Carat Advantage = Blue

    Zeiss Carat and Carat Advantage = Gold

    Trio = Teal

    Optima has a now one that is supposed to be clear

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alteaon View Post
    I am looking for a list of what colors the various anti-reflective coatings are. Any help would be great.

    Thanks,
    Take a look at this site www.invisiblelens.com

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    Colors of AR

    We ordered samples of the no-color AR from Optima and I for one am not impressed, planos showed a lot of distortion.
    Crizal, still my choice sans scotchgard which doesn't work on my furniture.:finger:

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    Quote Originally Posted by emloray View Post
    We ordered samples of the no-color AR from Optima and I for one am not impressed, planos showed a lot of distortion.
    Crizal, still my choice sans scotchgard which doesn't work on my furniture.:finger:
    In Canada, Essilor is not going to use the scotchguard name. Saves money on royalties.

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    True Ar

    Quote Originally Posted by slubberdegullian View Post
    A true a/r is light green with a hint of yellow.super et a/r is a purpleish color and gold is gold. so if you order regular a/r and it comes out a differant color that would be considered a mistake of blended gases and so on.hope this helps:D
    I think this statement is more of a myth than a fact, "A True a/r is light green with a hint of yellow."

    Look at any high quality camera lens, you won't find one with green AR. They use blue or Red tones.

    There are many reasons for the green AR in lenses. We offer a green tone AR as that is what is expected by most optical retailers. We also have a red and blue tone AR developed but not in use due to demand for green.

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    Redhot Jumper No color.....................

    Quote Originally Posted by emloray View Post
    We ordered samples of the no-color AR from Optima and I for one am not impressed, planos showed a lot of distortion.
    Crizal, still my choice sans scotchgard which doesn't work on my furniture.
    You got samples AR coated on cheap plano lenses, you did not comment on the AR but the distortion underneath.

    Furthermore the scotchguard has nothing to do with the color reflex of the AR. So your comments have said nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH View Post
    I think this statement is more of a myth than a fact, "A True a/r is light green with a hint of yellow."

    Look at any high quality camera lens, you won't find one with green AR. They use blue or Red tones.

    There are many reasons for the green AR in lenses. We offer a green tone AR as that is what is expected by most optical retailers. We also have a red and blue tone AR developed but not in use due to demand for green.
    Exactly why Crizal offers the D Alize in Canada and not the US (blue tone). There are less reflections (.4 versus .8) and it is much less noticeable, but people want the green.

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    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life View Post
    Exactly why Crizal offers the D Alize in Canada and not the US (blue tone). There are less reflections (.4 versus .8) and it is much less noticeable, but people want the green.
    You know in a premium AR I don't care much about the color, I want the best performance so blue has always been fine for me, but in my budge AR's I need a green and the reason for this is if I have a customer with a very stingy MVC plan I need to have the option to order a surfaced lens coated and use a stock lens without the AR's color being different. Other than that I could care less. I had someone on this board propose an interesting offer once, where they would AR the front of a bunch of blanks for me in a Red AR, then I could surface and send them out to be coated on the back, the back risidual color being whatever. Curiously the person backed out of it, but I would have liked to offer a Red AR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    You know in a premium AR I don't care much about the color, I want the best performance so blue has always been fine for me, but in my budge AR's I need a green and the reason for this is if I have a customer with a very stingy MVC plan I need to have the option to order a surfaced lens coated and use a stock lens without the AR's color being different. Other than that I could care less. I had someone on this board propose an interesting offer once, where they would AR the front of a bunch of blanks for me in a Red AR, then I could surface and send them out to be coated on the back, the back risidual color being whatever. Curiously the person backed out of it, but I would have liked to offer a Red AR.
    Well first priority in an AR is quality. Will it hold up? Then amount of reflections, then scratch protection, then easy of clean, then colour.

    For all of my surface lenses, I use the D Alize, because it is nicer. For my stock lenses, I use the regular green, because it is available. Not going to charge a customer twice as much to surface the lenses so the coating is blue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life View Post
    Exactly why Crizal offers the D Alize in Canada and not the US (blue tone). There are less reflections (.4 versus .8) and it is much less noticeable, but people want the green.
    Essilor in Canada is directly under the umbrella of head office in France. While Essilor USA is a US company belonging to Essilor France, and they they operate the american way.

    Besides that when AR coating you can take any metal oxyde that will work in vaccum coating and create the color hue you want.
    Magnesium fluoride has been a standard for a long time
    Have a look at a periodic table I have one on my website at: http://optochemicals.com/periodic_table.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Essilor in Canada is directly under the umbrella of head office in France. While Essilor USA is a US company belonging to Essilor France, and they they operate the american way.

    Besides that when AR coating you can take any metal oxyde that will work in vaccum coating and create the color hue you want.
    Magnesium fluoride has been a standard for a long time
    Have a look at a periodic table I have one on my website at: http://optochemicals.com/periodic_table.htm
    Yes, but that is not the point. It comes down to what is in demand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emloray View Post
    We ordered samples of the no-color AR from Optima and I for one am not impressed, planos showed a lot of distortion.
    Crizal, still my choice sans scotchgard which doesn't work on my furniture.:finger:
    I find your statement not comprehend able. We in our practice have dispensed now over 41 pairs of lenses and none have had any distortion you say. I can say we Swiss are very critical to quality by nature and why would you prescribe planos to begin with.

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    Redhot Jumper

    Quote Originally Posted by VisionCH View Post
    I find your statement not comprehend able. We in our practice have dispensed now over 41 pairs of lenses and none have had any distortion you say. I can say we Swiss are very critical to quality by nature and why would you prescribe planos to begin with.
    Vision CH...............He ordered a sample plano lens. For sample lenses many use cheap sunglass lenses. The distrotion was not in the coating, the distortion is in the lens..........so dont worry about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Vision CH...............He ordered a sample plano lens. For sample lenses many use cheap sunglass lenses. The distrotion was not in the coating, the distortion is in the lens..........so dont worry about it.
    . Dear Sir Thank you for your reply. I am not worried actually I laugh at some comments because people criticize without using the lens. I contacted the manufacturer of Color Free to see if they would tell me what brand was green and spoke with the President of the company; was very surprised he took the time to speak to me. He was very accommodating and polite and said that Green was Essilor's Airwear and the Blue I believe he said was Teflon Sola. He also said that their coating has more than 7 layers on each side so it is a multi band coating compared to competition multi band. I ask why his transmission readings were different and he said they use highly specialized equipment and measure competition and their lenses on same machine to be equal evaluation. He also said that he would send transmission curve next week of CF. Very nic eto communicate with you.

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    Blue Jumper Don't call me Sir.................

    Quote Originally Posted by VisionCH View Post
    Dear Sir Thank you for your reply. I am not worried actually I laugh at some comments because people criticize without using the lens.
    Vision CH........Please don't call me Sir...............I am a Swiss like you, post on Optiboard under my real name, learned the optical profession there and in the UK, then ended up in the optical trade in Canada.

    You will see that there are many good brains on Optiboard as well as some that are here to learn. Half the States in the USA are not regulated for opticians, so many have to learn wherever they can and Optiboard is a good place..

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    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VisionCH
    I am not worried actually I laugh at some comments because people criticize without using the lens.
    I find it just as funny when people blindly use a product. I find it even funnier when those that use the inferior product think it is a superior product.

    Quote Originally Posted by VisionCH
    I ask why his transmission readings were different and he said they use highly specialized equipment and measure competition and their lenses on same machine to be equal evaluation.
    In another thread you quoted the above passage I find that even funnier that as an optometrist with a degree based in the sciences you believe that a standard unit of measure such as percentage of transmission from a spectrophotometer would differ from machine to machine by that large of a variance, of course every one elses machine is broken.:hammer: That's the same reason why I don't take PD measurements with a mm ruler from switzerland, the conversion from swiss mm to US mm is difficult for my feable mind.:hammer:
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    Colors of AR

    I can see this gets to be quite a hostile environment . In our practice we are about 85% AR on all lenses. We dispense: Crizal, Crizal with Alize, Crizal with clearcoat, Resolution with AR, Zeiss Carat and Carat Advantage. We are an AR practice of four Doctors who script for AR.

    I use a plano because people seem to have less difficulty holding, looking through, and identifying with a plano as oppossed to a -2.00 or +2.00.

    We use the crizal "bull's eye"sample (which happens to be plano) and a carat sample (which happens to be plano) so color free AR should also be plano to compare apples to apples. Aside from the lens quality you can still see a marked difference in the AR properties of these fine lenses.

    Some one mentioned you shouldn't comment on something you haven't tried or dispensed yet. Oh but I have, looking through the colorless AR I saw no visual difference as compared to the other premium ARs however I did not like the appearence on me. It appeared to be not as "non-reflective" if I can say that as compared to the other ARs.

    Don't know if this clears up any of my prior comments.

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    Blue Jumper Must be among top sellers.......................

    Quote Originally Posted by emloray View Post
    In our practice we are about 85% AR on all lenses.
    You must be one of the unique retailers in the country . The statistics put a 20% all jobs made in AR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    You must be one of the unique retailers in the country . The statistics put a 20% all jobs made in AR.
    This is a strange "sociocultural" issue (or only different marketing??). AFAIK (I´m not a dispensing opticion myself), but what I read in media, know of friends, experienced myself when buying new glasses etc., here in Europe resp. Germany I would assume almost nobody has no AR (maybe < 10%), in many cases as a customer you end up beeing sold some kind of high end AR (usually the optician will tell you there are 3 quality levels around - BESIDES no AR, and you end up being talked into at least the medium level)

    Why is this so different from the States/Canada....

    XW

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    Blue Jumper No wonder that the other 80% can live without AR............

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowei View Post
    BESIDES no AR, and you end up being talked into at least the medium level)

    Why is this so different from the States/Canada....
    XW
    30-40 Years ago the US &#37; was one of the best currency. The food and living cost had always been very inexpensive. So did transportation gasoline and air travel. People saved money, had money and spent money.

    This has all changed 180 degrees....................over the years the cost of living went up in Europe, salaries went through the roof and everybody was sitting in a gold mine. Now with the European Community and the common Euro suddenly everybody make money. A plain secretary making the equivalent of over $ 100,000 a year is unheard of.

    The middle and lower class North American makes salaried that are nowhere close to the European ones. All that was affordable was cheap cars, gasoline and housing. This is all gone today.The only thing that is still way cheaper than in Europe is Food. Meat and fresh fruit and vegetables.

    High end glasses including AR are sold to about the same prices as in Europe so there is a large difference with all other daily items.

    The American consumer has no money and lives from pay check to paycheck. Many have 2 jobs to make the family survive.

    This is Why the WalMarts and Targets and other similar stores are making big profits, because people can purchase cheap.
    Also one reason that glasses are not in the same luxury category as they are in Europe.
    The US is going into one of its biggest recession ever, one that is said will last a few years.

    Having said that..............no wonder that the majority of the people, .........the other 80% can still live without AR coated lenses :finger:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    30-40 Years ago the US % was one of the best currency. The food and living cost had always been very inexpensive. So did transportation gasoline and air travel. People saved money, had money and spent money.

    This has all changed 180 degrees....................over the years the cost of living went up in Europe, salaries went through the roof and everybody was sitting in a gold mine. Now with the European Community and the common Euro suddenly everybody make money. A plain secretary making the equivalent of over $ 100,000 a year is unheard of.

    The middle and lower class North American makes salaried that are nowhere close to the European ones. All that was affordable was cheap cars, gasoline and housing. This is all gone today.The only thing that is still way cheaper than in Europe is Food. Meat and fresh fruit and vegetables.

    High end glasses including AR are sold to about the same prices as in Europe so there is a large difference with all other daily items.

    The American consumer has no money and lives from pay check to paycheck. Many have 2 jobs to make the family survive.

    This is Why the WalMarts and Targets and other similar stores are making big profits, because people can purchase cheap.
    Also one reason that glasses are not in the same luxury category as they are in Europe.
    The US is going into one of its biggest recession ever, one that is said will last a few years.

    Having said that..............no wonder that the majority of the people, .........the other 80% can still live without AR coated lenses :finger:
    This certainly is part of the explanation, especially over the last years, but I think the prevalence of AR here in contrast to the US was there already > 20 years ago.

    For some reason, doctors and optician here are/were very effective to make the consumer aware that NO AR glasses are something BAD for your eyes and should be avoided at any cost. The only common non-AR glasses that I know off are cheap few bucks reading aids at the grocery store (I would not be too surprised when one day they came with some simple MgFl single-layer coating too, if you do it in really BIG numbers it´s cheap, especially in China)

    We also have quite a lot of cheap chains like Apolllo, Fielmann, Abele, Activ-Optik that claim they sell you SVs for €19.90 in some cheap frame, PALs for € 99,90 but if you go there and ask with some relatively easy prescription as +4.00/0.75 2.00 Add, they will tell you that they can make one, BUT the glasses are going to be THAT thick, no AR, only simple PAL design and you throroughly should consider grading up and you may end up with €500+ for the complete spectacles too

    XW

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    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    The old and I mean the first AR's on the market in the US suffered from various defects such as peeling and scratching easily, this went on for years before the issues were addressed. In todays day and age you won't find one AR that has the same problems as the first AR's we just won't accept that anymore, the manufacturers have gone to stripping existing coats and applying their own for better adhesion, they have gone to multi stack AR's for even better performance in transmission, they have applied flourine to their formulations for better resistance to water and dirt. Todays AR is far more advanced then yesterdays AR, but I still have about 1 out of 2 that still remembers what the old AR was like and will opt to skip it.

    Just my thoughts and experience, sure I could overcome their objections and show them how todays AR's are better and more durable, I could also point out that if they do scratch up like the old AR's since the scratches are on the surface coating I can remove them with my stripper and they would have the equivalnet of new lenses (almost like a scratch insurance policy), but the cost to me for some of these AR's is so ridiculous that I have better options to offer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    The old and I mean the first AR's on the market in the US suffered from various defects such as peeling and scratching easily, this went on for years before the issues were addressed. In todays day and age you won't find one AR that has the same problems as the first AR's we just won't accept that anymore, the manufacturers have gone to stripping existing coats and applying their own for better adhesion, they have gone to multi stack AR's for even better performance in transmission, they have applied flourine to their formulations for better resistance to water and dirt. Todays AR is far more advanced then yesterdays AR, but I still have about 1 out of 2 that still remembers what the old AR was like and will opt to skip it.
    yeah, maybe this also has to do with the fact that on the other end plastics are yet not so much in common here as they are in the US (just my own expression and I myself also prefer glass too), IIRC there is no such safety policy regarding "shatter proofness" here as in the States (poly issues and the like) and it was or still is easier make simple monolayer coatings on glass that are pretty durable. All the AR I remember from my family was more likely at this level, so no hardcoat, water/grease repeller layers etc.etc. needed and hence cheaper, but there was some (typically bue-pinkish, hence with one minimum in reflection at green) single layer AR which did THE basic job - reduce residual reflections!

    XW

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