Senate-NO Economic Stimulus

[gemstone]

Crap! I guess I will have to actually earn the money for my HDTV!

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...XRGFgvaNvf5XVQ
US Senate fails to advance its own economic stimulus plan

13 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) — The US Senate failed Wednesday to advance its own version of an economic stimulus program, boosting the odds for a White House-backed version approved last week by the House of Representatives.
Backers fell short of the 60 votes needed to end debate and bring the measure to the floor for passage, with the tally 58-41 in favor.
The vote came amid wrangling in Congress over the details of the stimulus of some 150 billion dollars to help boost flagging growth by giving tax rebates and business incentives.
The House-passed measure calls for checks of up to 600 dollars for individual taxpayers and and up to 1,200 dollars for couples, plus additional cash for dependent children.
Democratic leaders in the Senate sought to expand the measure by extending rebates to an additional 20 million elderly Americans living on social security benefits, veterans and others with low incomes. It also lengthens unemployment benefits.
The Senate version would cost more, at around 157 billion dollars, but the rebates for taxpayers would be reduced to 500 dollars for an individual and 1,000 for a couple. The Senate plan would include extra unemployment benefits as well.
Although most lawmakers are eager to approve a program to help revive an economy that some say is on the brink of recession, the next step was unclear after the failure of the Senate plan. But the failure of the Senate Democratic plan could pressure the chamber to pass the House version.
The White House warned the Senate Wednesday that time was of the essence.
"Our first and foremost goal is delivering relief to American consumers and businesses to boost our economy," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said in a statement.
"To be effective, this economic growth package must be timely, so it is crucial that the Senate now move quickly to pass a bill that will deliver relief to our economy," she said.
Senate Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid said after the vote that he would have "a conversation" with his Republican leader on the next course of action.
Some Republicans this week offered to vote on the House bill with an amendment to allow seniors and veterans to receive a rebate, but no other additions.
President George W. Bush warned the Senate last week not to "load" up the bill with excessive payouts or benefits or extraneous conditions.
Reid and other Democrats chided Republicans for blocking the bill.
"Given a chance to act as a recession looms, more than 40 Republicans today said no to helping 20 million seniors and no to 250,000 disabled veterans," Reid said in a statement.
"They said no to those who have lost their jobs and no to small business that are suffering in the Bush economy. They said no to helping American families pay their heating bill and avoid foreclosure."
Republican Senator Judd Gregg, who has opposed the rebate idea, said lawmakers should rethink the plan now that the Senate version has stalled.
"The rebate proposal, which amounts to flying a plane full of cash over the country toward the end of the year, will force us to charge at least 200 billion dollars to the federal credit card, and there is no guarantee it will actually work," Gregg said.
"A better approach would be to take targeted steps that will stimulate the economy through job creation and economic investment."
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson told lawmakers earlier Wednesday that the Bush administration may have some flexibility to accept a broader economic stimulus package.
Paulson, speaking at a hearing, said that the White House is "well aware" of the economic pressures facing seniors and veterans, and predicted that once efforts are made to reconcile the House and Senate bill, "I'm sure something can be worked out."

[Grubendol]

To be fair, it is the Republican wing of Senate which has prevented the stimulus package. Another stunning example of "I want it exactly as I want it with no negotiation".

[gemstone]

Yea. I guess they took exception to giving a tax "rebate" to people that paid no taxes.

[Grubendol]

Who will spend the money almost instantenously. If it is a STIMULUS package, it should go to those who will spend it.

[For-Life]

Yea. I guess they took exception to giving a tax "rebate" to people that paid no taxes.

Who will spend the money almost instantenously. If it is a STIMULUS package, it should go to those who will spend it.

Interesting question. Is the initiative to reduce taxes or to encourage spending? One of the quagmires of the tax cut initiative. One can argue that government spending would produce more jobs and thus increase spending that way.

Of course, many economists would argue that with the Federal Reserve dropping interest rates, it will help.

[1968]

This stimulus package is a BAD idea...

We're told to spend when the economy is doing well.

We're told to spend when the economy is not doing well.

We're told to spend when we are at peace.

We're told to spend when we are at war.

Who are the idiots running this country?

[Grubendol]

Increased Federal Spending is how we got out of the Great Republican Depression. There’s no reason that a new Democratic Administration couldn’t do the same to fix this nation. Lord knows we need some major repairs made to our nation’s infrastructure. That kind of large scale public works would be an investment in the nation (building the highway system may have cost a lot up front but allowed for interstate commerce to increase over subsequent half century).

[Grubendol]

This stimulus package is a BAD idea...

We're told to spend when the economy is doing well.

We're told to spend when the economy is not doing well.

We're told to spend when we are at peace.

We're told to spend when we are at war.

Who are the idiots running this country?

The corporations and neo-cons who eliminate their regulations….Hadn’t you figured that one out yet? ;)

[1968]

Of course, many economists would argue that with the Federal Reserve dropping interest rates, it will help.

It WILL help.... help weaken the dollar further. Of course, I'm just another Chicken Little...

The dollar will weaken as the Federal Reserve is likely to keep cutting interest rates and the U.S. economy may slow further, said JPMorgan Chase & Co., the third- largest U.S. bank.

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aCBkZD1XWzzQ

[For-Life]

This stimulus package is a BAD idea...

We're told to spend when the economy is doing well.

We're told to spend when the economy is not doing well.

We're told to spend when we are at peace.

We're told to spend when we are at war.

Who are the idiots running this country?

mmmhmm

The funny thing is the Canadian government just lowered the sales tax immediately after Christmas. So it essentially encouraged spending immediately after the biggest spending quarter of the year. What is the result? Well inflation will go up, due to the spending, and interest rates may need to be increased to curb spending. End result = worse off than before.

Now, we are scared that we may enter an economic downturn. Since we already gave the tax cut, we cannot perform another income tax cut as it will hurt the fiscal position of the government. Ugh. If only done wisely.

[For-Life]

It WILL help.... help weaken the dollar further. Of course, I'm just another Chicken Little...

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aCBkZD1XWzzQ

Dropping the interest rates will not weaken the dollar. Actually, it can help encourage appreciation of the dollar, as it can help motivate international investment and purchases of American exports.

The dollar rose against 13 of the 16 most-active currencies today after the Fed lowered its overnight lending rate between banks by three quarters of a percentage point to 3.5 percent on increased signs of a recession. Traders raised bets to 80 percent that the central bank will reduce borrowing costs by a half- percentage point at its Jan. 30 meeting.

From the same source you mentioned

[For-Life]

Increased Federal Spending is how we got out of the Great Republican Depression. There’s no reason that a new Democratic Administration couldn’t do the same to fix this nation. Lord knows we need some major repairs made to our nation’s infrastructure. That kind of large scale public works would be an investment in the nation (building the highway system may have cost a lot up front but allowed for interstate commerce to increase over subsequent half century).

This is what I said in 2001. Fix up the American infrastructure and hire increased border guards. It would have solved some of the terrorism and immigration problem, and helped stop disasters like New Orleans and the Minniapolis bridge. Plus, it would increase jobs, which increases spending.

[1968]

Increased Federal Spending is how we got out of the Great Republican Depression. There’s no reason that a new Democratic Administration couldn’t do the same to fix this nation. Lord knows we need some major repairs made to our nation’s infrastructure. That kind of large scale public works would be an investment in the nation (building the highway system may have cost a lot up front but allowed for interstate commerce to increase over subsequent half century).

Lord knows I'm not a fan of Mike Huckabee, but he was suggesting that we should be "stimulating the economy" by spending money in the US fixing our infrastructure rather than give money to people who are going to spend it on foreign made products.

(Oh, my God! The left side of my body is getting stronger!)

[For-Life]

This is what I said in 2001. Fix up the American infrastructure and hire increased border guards. It would have solved some of the terrorism and immigration problem, and helped stop disasters like New Orleans and the Minniapolis bridge. Plus, it would increase jobs, which increases spending.

Oh, I should also mention that this should be American only workers. If you want to get the dollar up, you have to use Americans

[1968]

Dropping the interest rates will not weaken the dollar. Actually, it can help encourage appreciation of the dollar, as it can help motivate international investment and purchases of American exports.

We can play this game all day if you'd like. It's not a minority opinion that interest rate drops weaken the dollar.

[For-Life]

We can play this game all day if you'd like. It's not a minority opinion that interest rate drops weaken the dollar.

What is the rationale behind that?

[1968]

What is the rationale behind that?

The simple explanation is that it puts more money in circulation.

(Off to work now...)

[For-Life]

The simple explanation is that it puts more money in circulation.

(Off to work now...)

and again we hit a stalemate, because I believe that is controlled and has been for the past 20 years.

[Grubendol]

It *USED* to be controlled…a static amount of money in circulation. But the Bush Administration stopped telling the nation how much money it’s printing…in part so it could put more money in circulation to pay for the Occupation. There is so much more money in circulation than we realize and that is a big part of the problem with the nation’s economy right now. We have been depressing the value of the dollar for almost ten years….it’s no different than what led to the downfall of the Weimar Republic and the eventual rise of Hitler and WWII.

[shanbaum]

What is the rationale behind that?

Lower dollar interest rates make dollar investments less attractive, thus decreasing demand for dollars, thus reducing its value.

[k12311997]

This is what I said in 2001. Fix up the American infrastructure and hire increased border guards. It would have solved some of the terrorism and immigration problem, and helped stop disasters like New Orleans and the Minniapolis bridge. Plus, it would increase jobs, which increases spending.

Oh, I should also mention that this should be American only workers. If you want to get the dollar up, you have to use Americans

As much as I've been trying to stay out of political discussions I can't resist asking?

Who are you and what have you done with the real For-Life? these border on conservative ideas.

[For-Life]

Lower dollar interest rates make dollar investments less attractive, thus decreasing demand for dollars, thus reducing its value.

They make investment more attractive, thus encouraging domestic increase, thus appreciating the dollar.

[For-Life]

As much as I've been trying to stay out of political discussions I can't resist asking?

Who are you and what have you done with the real For-Life? these border on conservative ideas.

I am a centrist. I try not to use one conservatism versus liberalism, but instead try to pick the most logical option.

[Grubendol]

I am a centrist. I try not to use one conservatism versus liberalism, but instead try to pick the most logical option.

You’re a perfect example of what is considered centrism in this country, but in reality the “Liberal” perspective is the centrist perspective. We don’t have leftists in this country. Leftists are Communists and they are virtually non-existent here. That’s why you’re views often appearl Liberal. Common Sense is a powerful tool

[Pete Hanlin]

In reality the “Liberal” perspective is the centrist perspective.
(I think the above phrase is revealing enough without the need for additional comment.)