Even with family one grows up and no longer requires the discipline of the elders. Adults in family are allowed to make thier own decisions and mistakes. If you want government for a momma move to China, or Cuba or some other communist regime.
Chip
Overall, I would rate his performance as Great
Overall, I would rate his performance as Good
Overall, I would rate his performance as OK
Overall, I would rate his performance as Poor
Overall, I would rate his performance as Terrible
Even with family one grows up and no longer requires the discipline of the elders. Adults in family are allowed to make thier own decisions and mistakes. If you want government for a momma move to China, or Cuba or some other communist regime.
Chip
Originally Posted by Grubendol
Whattttttttt! Where did you grow up? In George Orwells "1984" come on. It does take a village? What happened to the parents? :hammer:
No one is asking for the government to be the parent. Sometimes I do not think many understand the whole welfare, health care, and education system.
I believe we hear the odd horror story, but do not hear the many success stories. If you understood what really happens, you would see why so many people cannot afford medical insurance, why welfare is needed, and why public schools need to improve and have the same quality throughout each State. People do not look at the historical, actual data, but are instead given some political speel about how their taxes are hurting them.
Unfortunately, we see the odd problem and we come up with solutions that make the problem worse. For instance, instead of encouraging people to get off welfare, we should force them off by giving them less. One perfect example is the eyewear industry. We hear about the problems associated with welfare assisting with eye exams. You discuss these problems with ODs and find that the government is paying them a peanut to do the exam. In other nations, the payment is a lot closer to what they would receive through the private person. So what is being shown, is not actually what was originally intended.
In the end, it leads to higher costs and more problems for the community. Now, that is what I call fiscal irresponsibility.
Don't know about you but I was raised by my parents and relatives and friends. Not some government collective. Then I believe I was left on my own and have been able to take care of myself since I was 14 without any government help (or in spite of it's interferance).
You could say that others are not as fortuante as I. But many of these were too fortunate because someone (or government) gave them so much help they never learned to take care of themselves.
How many of you are over 30 and still ask your parents for money or help?
How many over 30 and still haven't paid off "Student loans?"
Chip
Last edited by chip anderson; 02-08-2008 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Sarcasm
= a village
How about the rest of your family and your friends?
What if your parents are poor? What if at the age of 14 you are found to have MS?
What if you had problems in the past and want to clean up your life, but you have no skills and no money to gain the skills? The rent is due, you are out of income, and have to move onto the streets.
What if you lived in a poor neighbourhood, and the education was just horrible?
For the first one, not many. The odd one, but that is the one we hear about.
For the second one, I have to ask you if you have ever been saddled with $40k to $60k in student loans?
Most people can get a healthy start on a house without that debt.
Actually except for a few cars that I paid off promptly, when I was single I never borrowed a dime for anything. My homeroom teacher quit because I made more than he did (I have four jobs while in high school).
Students can work and pay for thier education (Gosh, what a concept.)
Without government loans inflating the cost of education, we could probably all aford one.
Chip
Chip, I worked three jobs last year while doing my masters. Most students I knew did the same or similar. Not everyone can afford to pay $15k for tuition a year, plus room, board, ect. It is all not through government loans too. Mine was through the bank.
Of course, what do I know? I was only one of those, what some members on the board refer to, "lazy students."
Actually, you need to be more independent to survive in China than you do in the United States.
I think whether you call yourself "fiscally conservative", or not, people are willing to have the government spend money on things that they are willing to have the government spend money on. For example, the war is hugely expensive, but I'll bet most "fiscal conservatives" support it. And yet those same folks don't want to help "un-rich" young people pay for a college education.
I suppose I'm the exception to your assumption, then. I am a fiscal conservative and have repeatedly stated the opinion that we need to get out of Iraq simply from a cost perspective. I think we should have avoided a drug program for Medicare for the same reason- its just too expensive.
Precisely. Taxes are the membership dues for being a part of society. If you live here, you have to pay to be a part of it. If you take advantage of those services which were created for the public good, then you must pay to maintain them as well.
You know- I really REALLY like your definition of taxes being membership dues. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever paying taxes to support public systems that are used by all. My problem is with paying to support other individuals. Paying for someone else's medical care, retirement, etc. is NOT the same as paying the dues necessary to defend the country, allow for commerce, etc. At some level, yes- there is a real personal benefit to paying for certain expenses incurred by others (e.g., Spexvet's example of helping fund college tuition or public schooling). However, having my money redistributed to my neighbor down the street who makes less than I do is not equivalent with paying for the sewer system we both use.
I really am not a Scrooge, and I do not believe in the old "no work, no food" adage of Colonial America. If I see my neighbor in need, I'm more likely than not to offer assistance. However, I really do not think a government-run program (ESPECIALLY one run from the federal level) is ever going to be efficient or effective at actually helping the appropriate people.
His knowledge of economics seemed to be nothing more than the mantra of "Tax less, spend less."
Boy, that sure sounds pretty good to me- or at least a good STARTING point. Yes, economics are a bit more complicated than all that- but it would be nice to have someone out there running on fiscal conservativism (okay, Ron Paul & Fred Thompson- but Paul had an even slimmer chance than Thompson of being elected... none of the GOP front-runners were fiscal conservatives this go-round).
Perhaps the best economic/budget policy ever was the Graham-Rudman Bill (I think that may have been bi-partisan). This legislation required Congress to balance the budget. Unfortunately, Congress wasted no time in building so many loopholes around the legislation that it became powerless.
Oh come on. Regan had a booming economy and did not balance the budget. Canada has balanced the budget every year since the dot.com bust. GIVE BILL CREDIT!!! Come on, admin it - Liberals can be more fiscally conservative than Conservatives. Come on, you know you want to.
I'll tell you what... I'm honestly not sure about this one- so I may have to change my mind on giving Bill credit. As I recall, President Clinton lost his majority in the House on his first mid-term, and the Senate upon his re-election. If the "balanced budgets" came when he had a majority in both sides of Congress, I'll give him (and the economy) primary credit. If the balanced budget occured after Newt Gingrich launched his "Contract with America" and gained a GOP majority in the House, then I'll insist we split the credit between Clinton, the GOP Congress, and the economy. Fair enough? My recollection is the balanced budgets came only after the GOP had a majority in the House. Furthermore, had the then First Lady now Sen. Clinton actually managed to get her concept of universal insurance passed, there's no way the budget would have balanced (so one might say the budget was balanced despite their best efforts- if one wanted to be a cantankerous conservative :^).
Oh, and show me a fiscally conservative liberal and I'll be happy to vote for him/her! Heck, I'm willing to vote for Sen. Obama this go round simply because all of them are spend-happy, but he's the only one in the group for which I have any respect (I enjoy watching the SOTU address each year- and I simply refuse to watch one given by either Sen. McCain or Sen. Clinton... I even managed to stomach 7 out of 8 of President Clinton's, simply because he was a great speaker).
Pete Hanlin, ABOM
Vice President Professional Services
Essilor of America
http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74
Anyone besides me know that the only place true communism has worked was under Capt. John Smith in the Colonies? And they didn't even have a name for it then.
Chip
that is why no one practices true communism
I have yet to see anyone in this thread advocate from true communism. Heck, I have not even seen anyone advocate communism or foll socialism.
And if you're fortunate enough to go to a private school, even if you have no family money, then you most certainly will be paying way past 30. My wife is 28 and went to a great liberal arts college for teachers. She'll be paying for at least another 10 years.
I went to a great Jesuit school, my family has no money, I was fortunate enough to get incredible grants and scholarships which meant I didn't have to take out a loan until my junior year. I'm 35 in 2 weeks, and I still am paying off my loans.
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Is Chip smoking the tree? Capt. Smith and Communism all in the same breath. Difference is that Smith didn't use gulags to enslave his people because he did not like what they said or did. He also did not kill at least 60 million of his own people like Stalin did. You must have some good tree your smoking to come up with this. Communism! WOW :drop:
jediron, his point is that the Soviet Union wasn't communism. It was a dictatorship with everything government owned....a very different animal than what Marx was suggesting with his manifesto.
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I can remember the Kremlin's Georgi Arbatov reacting to a question by declaring that "Communism hasn't been invented yet."
I think that was when Mikhail Gorbachev was in power. Or maybe it was a few years before that. (Did anyone see some of the irony of the arms race back then.. "Mikhail's Navy"..?)
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Last edited by rinselberg; 02-10-2008 at 02:26 PM.
That maybe your take and I will except that but he still must be smoking some pretty fine tree to come with a rant like that. Plus he did not mention Marx he mentioned Capt. Smith. from the 16 an 17 hundrends, long way from Marx. just my 2 cents
I voted terrible... This Californian moved to Canada coming up on 2 years now on Presidents day! Yes, I made sure we left on that exact day...
CHANGE is GOOD! :)
Now you just have to deal with his friend. Hopefully not after April though
I think what I was trying to get at is that true Communism, the type where everything is communally owned and everyone works towards the community betterment has only ever worked in small scale. What we call “Capital C Communism” has never truly existed” Every large scale version attempted was really more about totalitarianism or dictatorship.
Small C communism has existed for thousands of years in any and all small tribal settings. Thus, Capt Smith could be argued led a small c communistic society.
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Either way, no one here has advocated communism, so I do not know why it has even been brought up
Look in post #62
Thank you for the philosophy lesson. :cheers:
Dude, you’ve got jedi in your name, you can’t be all bad ;)
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