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Thread: Treat the Rich

  1. #1
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    Treat the Rich

    I am convinced there is an under-served market in my area when it comes to true quality opticianry--from simple tasks like soldering to the real stuff like hand-crafting frames.
    My question is, how do I learn that? Or better yet, how do I find someone with those skills? It seems the traditional optician is a dying breed, and yet there is a very well-heeled market for the services such an optician can provide.
    I don't have time to go to school so that's out of the question.
    Any advice regarding this, especially advice concerning what a "real" optician expects salary-wise, would be appreciated.
    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Just what we need more of.

    You want to become a "true quality optician" and yet "don't have time to go to school." Lots of luck.

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    Well...I'm currently managing two optical practices for a company that owns seven...so I don't really need your best wishes to succeed.
    I have a degree, but as far as I know they don't offer a four-year opticianry degree. It's more of a craft, really, and I admit I'm not a master of it.
    I hire and fire people like you. It's real craftsmen I'm looking to emulate and partner with.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul E. Carbonate View Post
    It's real craftsmen I'm looking to emulate and partner with.
    Find one and work for him. The real craftsmen have been in the business a long time. Working for them is the best way to learn from them. I have been fortunate to have worked for two of them in 30 years. They are not as common as you might think.

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    It ain't the same as a good apprenticeship, but Hilco has some tapes on a lot of what you want to learn. See thier catalogue and send them some money.

    Chip

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    Thanks, Chip. I've always wondered if the Hilco tapes were worth the money. I'll definitely check them out.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Eyewear Soldering is NOT, IMHO, a "high-quality" skill.
    I solder, but only as an expedient to meet an immediate need for a repair. Eyewear today is not solderable and appear to have a acceptable finish. Besides, the frame quality isn't worth it (at least not what I'm carrying).

    No, overall, I'd have to say that if I was to single out just one skill that cleint feedback says differentiates us, it is our ability to select/recommend/modify and adjust/fit eyewear and sunwear at a "master" level. Just about every day, some client remarks that what we do appears akin to "magic"

    It is a very under appreciated and under-emphasized skill in our industry today. And it just cannot be taught and mastered in a seminar or two. You must commit yourself to excellence every day.

    FWIW

    Barry

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    Actually Ralph Drew used to give a very good seminar on how to select, fit adjust, pick the right bridge design, right nose pad, temple lenght, temple weight, etc.
    Too bad his like isn't in the industry today. He wasn't a salesman, he was an OPTICIAN!

    Chip

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    Redhot Jumper Train lan tecnicians.....................

    Maybe one solution could be to train some seasoned all around lab guy's for sales in the store. If they can learn that part you will have top notch people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoisland58 View Post
    Find one and work for him. The real craftsmen have been in the business a long time. Working for them is the best way to learn from them. I have been fortunate to have worked for two of them in 30 years. They are not as common as you might think.

    I disagree...to a point. I can look at young guys like Harry Chiling as a true craftsman. He knows lenses inside and out, can make frames, can add jewels to lenses, can educate, solder, is forward thinking, fights the fight for Opticians, and basically amaze and impress the hell out of me. His dedication and total devotion to his craft is admirable and rare these days. I don't think he has had to replace very many Ronsir top rims, drill and facet a PGX executive trifocal into a Tura or Elizabeth Arden. But does things like that make him less of a craftsman? There are craftsman out there, some old, but some, very young. The true trick is finding one regardless of the age!
    Last edited by Fezz; 01-30-2008 at 07:58 AM.

  11. #11
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    *soldering is an old dog's money-losing skill. Forget about it. People don't solder their frames or re-sole their shoes. They buy new ones.

    If you want to become successful on your own then figure out what your boss did when he opened his stores and you can do something just as relevant today.

  12. #12
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul E. Carbonate View Post
    I am convinced there is an under-served market in my area when it comes to true quality opticianry--from simple tasks like soldering to the real stuff like hand-crafting frames.
    My question is, how do I learn that? Or better yet, how do I find someone with those skills? It seems the traditional optician is a dying breed, and yet there is a very well-heeled market for the services such an optician can provide.
    I don't have time to go to school so that's out of the question.
    Any advice regarding this, especially advice concerning what a "real" optician expects salary-wise, would be appreciated.
    Thank you.

    I don't htink your position with the company your with will allow you the time to master any skills outside of business, if your truly running a multiple location practice you are going to want to be a master on the business end.

    Just to give you an idea of where the craftsman are, I recently walked into a little cigar shop in SC where they had a guy that was there from 8:00 am to 12:00 midnight, the next day I went into the shop and ordered a few cigars, the staff was nice and the buy rolling them was there again in the morning. I assumed that his dedication to rolling meant he was the owner, and I was wrong. Turns out he's been doing this forever and he was 45 or older and he didn't look one day over 30, the owner was a guy who was on the phone running around taking money and manageing the business. I am sure the roller got payed well, but most of all he was allowed to do what he enjoyed doing, rolling cigars. Had this guy been ringing up sales and answering phones you could bet his cogars would have been a bit more shabby.

    Thank's Fezz for the kind words, but unfortunately I am answering phones and ring up sales. The craft seems to be dieing in our industry. I still love it when I get to practice some of the more difficult skills but they are few and far between.

    For me personally I look at guys like chip who fabricates prosthetic eyes and am amazed. I would not expect him to take and tech someone willy nilly how to do what he does. It's would be best to find someone to partner with then to try and fake the skills.
    1st* HTML5 Tracer Software
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    *Dave at OptiVision has a web based tracer integration package that's awesome.

  13. #13
    Snook Fishin' Optician Specs's Avatar
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    Big Smile

    Soldering/welding may be an old dogs skill, but not a losing one. I make $20-$25 per solder/weld. Thats called profit. The people I help out this way are quite thankful, and some end up buying something new at a later date, or even order new when picking up the repair realizing they are dealing w/ a repaired frame and want/need something reliable and not repaired.Thats called profit too, and customer service, and reputation. Lesson to you young ones.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Hand crafted Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul E. Carbonate View Post
    I am convinced there is an under-served market in my area when it comes to true quality opticianry--from simple tasks like soldering to the real stuff like hand-crafting frames.
    My question is, how do I learn that? Or better yet, how do I find someone with those skills? It seems the traditional optician is a dying breed, and yet there is a very well-heeled market for the services such an optician can provide.
    I don't have time to go to school so that's out of the question.
    Any advice regarding this, especially advice concerning what a "real" optician expects salary-wise, would be appreciated.
    Thank you.
    I have 37 + years as an optician and I see what you mean by dying breed.Nobody hand edges lenses or modifies rigid contact lenses anymore. Nobody solders frames and few optical shops even repair 3 piece rimless. As to hand crafting frames -that's all in Italy.If you want a source for Italian frames, I may have a starting point for you .One of our patients purchased 2 frames that were manufactured by a small Italian company that offered only a few styles that were classic P-3 shapes and similar.

    Bob Taylor

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    Don't say nobody hand edges contacts anymore, there are still a few left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    I disagree...to a point. I can look at young guys like Harry Chiling as a true craftsman. He knows lenses inside and out, can make frames, can add jewels to lenses, can educate, solder, is forward thinking, fights the fight for Opticians, and basically amaze and impress the hell out of me. His dedication and total devotion to his craft is admirable and rare these days. I don't think he has had to replace very many Ronsir top rims, drill and facet a PGX executive trifocal into a Tura or Elizabeth Arden. But does things like that make him less of a craftsman? There are craftsman out there, some old, but some, very young. The true trick is finding one regardless of the age!
    Probably true but I haven't run into any that haven't at least grown up in the business. On the other hand the old guys that I refer to aren't really that much older than me. When I think of young I think of people in their twenties and early thirties. And the older I get the younger they seem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Specs View Post
    Soldering/welding may be an old dogs skill, but not a losing one. I make $20-$25 per solder/weld. Thats called profit. The people I help out this way are quite thankful,
    Lesson to you young ones.
    They are thankful that they didn't have to spend more money (that's called profit) on new specs. You spent the same amount of time soldering that you do selling a new pair of specs (that's called loss of profit).

    the lesson is lost on this young one.

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    Redhot Jumper Lesson to young ones.........................

    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Specs [URL="http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=225902#post225902"
    [/URL] ]

    Soldering/welding may be an old dogs skill, but not a losing one. I make $20-$25 per solder/weld. Thats called profit. The people I help out this way are quite thankful,
    Lesson to you young ones.
    or............................

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcE View Post
    They are thankful that they didn't have to spend more money (that's called profit) on new specs. You spent the same amount of time soldering that you do selling a new pair of specs (that's called loss of profit).

    the lesson is lost on this young one.
    Education and skill is never lost.................neither on old or young ones.

    If you spend your time not to repair but to sell new one, you will get a reputation as such an optician, while your competitor who repairs a frame will get the reputation of a specialist in his field that can save a valuable item by fixing it.

    The consumer will remember who can give full service and who can not. or who does not want to give the service,

    End result.................the one who only uses his time sell new only, instead of repairing................will loose many sales he does not even know of, because he has accumulated his own reputation.


    :finger:

  19. #19
    OptiBoard Professional Kyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    Education and skill is never lost.................neither on old or young ones.

    If you spend your time not to repair but to sell new one, you will get a reputation as such an optician, while your competitor who repairs a frame will get the reputation of a specialist in his field that can save a valuable item by fixing it.
    center]:finger:[/center]

    Can I quote you on that, Chris? You gotz da goods! Oh, and I agree with Fezz.

    The students that come through our pre-optometry program have to spend time in the dispensary as well. Were we to just hastily and perhaps greedily pass on the opportunity to save an old frame - or at least try (heck, it might be just fine as a backup, if nothing else) - for someone who may simply not have the means to acquire any other option, we'd be sending quite the wrong message with these students.

    Compassion will profit anyone who wields it earnestly.

    And to Paul E. C, that you have even the slightest interest in delving further tells me there's something about you that differentiates you from most. I'd say you've got a pretty good shot if you use what time you have well.

    As far as salaries go, that will really depend on your employment practices...and certainly locality. Well-rewarded employees last longer and have greater interest in the philosophical health of a practice.

    Good luck!

    Kyle

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    Blue Jumper Rougher times......................

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post

    Can I quote you on that, Chris? You gotz da goods! Oh, and I agree with Fezz.
    Were we to just hastily and perhaps greedily pass on the opportunity to save an old frame - or at least try (heck, it might be just fine as a backup, if nothing else) - for someone who may simply not have the means to acquire any other option, we'd be sending quite the wrong message with these students.
    Kyle
    Kyle............you can quote me anytime.

    As the economy slides into a recession or maybe even further you have to change the way of selling some points. There is going to be a lot of people that will be very tight financially. So far the consumer figures are showing it, retail sale have gone done and will contiunue the same for a while.

    The optical retail known as an ewxpensive place is usually one of the first to feel the pinch. Some of these adjstment are that people want their old frames repaired, want new lenses in old frames. If you dont comply thery will buy cheaper somewhere else or on line.

    However if you are ready to compromise in rougher economic times you can still be a winner.

  21. #21
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    I agree with MarcE. It is lost profit. In a global world where everything is made in China, repair shops are a thing of the past. Shoe repair craftsmen used to build up good reputations, but there aren't many of those left and there won't be many eyeglass repair shops left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    I agree with MarcE. It is lost profit. In a global world where everything is made in China, repair shops are a thing of the past. Shoe repair craftsmen used to build up good reputations, but there aren't many of those left and there won't be many eyeglass repair shops left.

    you know, I don't know anything myself. I learned everything from Optiboard.

    Here is the scenario. client comes in with broken frame.

    My responses
    1. I can edge your lenses to fit this new frame. $90 and give me 30 minutes
    2. I can solder your old frame - $30 and give me 30 minutes. no warranty, the finish won't match, and it won't be as strong.
    3. Oops, I'm sorry. I didn't notice that your frame is titanium/stainless - can't solder it.
    4. Hey I have a frame that fits your lenses. $90 and give me 2 minutes.
    5. Complete new pair (if SV) from our special rack. $99 and give me 30 minutes.
    6. Obviously you know now that accidents can happen any time. Since you rely on you eyewear to drive, read, keep your job, etc - we really need to talk about a having a backup pair.

    I think given the choices, most people will not choose the soldering route. I would just be careful not to assume that people want to get off cheap and put money in the repair of 2 yo specs.

    Not that I am against soldering. It's just not my number one tool in my toolbox that I reach for. I am however, much more likely to solder when it is a multi-focal, though.

    I think that for a quick solder done right (which I don't do very well), $50 isn't overpriced. It no one else can or is willing to do it - get the client's vision back that is - then it is definately worth it. They won't be able to see today for any less.

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    1. I can edge your lenses to fit this new frame. $90 and give me 30 minutes
    2. I can solder your old frame - $30 and give me 30 minutes. no warranty, the finish won't match, and it won't be as strong.
    3. Oops, I'm sorry. I didn't notice that your frame is titanium/stainless - can't solder it.
    4. Hey I have a frame that fits your lenses. $90 and give me 2 minutes.
    5. Complete new pair (if SV) from our special rack. $99 and give me 30 minutes.
    6. Obviously you know now that accidents can happen any time. Since you rely on you eyewear to drive, read, keep your job, etc - we really need to talk about a having a backup pair.

    I think given the choices, most people will not choose the soldering route. I would just be careful not to assume that people want to get off cheap and put money in the repair of 2 yo specs.

    Not that I am against soldering. It's just not my number one tool in my toolbox that I reach for.
    I tell them 20 minutes.:bbg: And I only offer 1,4,5, and 6.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxeyeguy View Post
    I tell them 20 minutes.:bbg: And I only offer 1,4,5, and 6.
    Maybe you can get 6-pack abs in 7 minutes or buns of steel in 10 minutes, but you can't possibly make quality eyewear in only 20 minutes.

    It takes a full 30 minutes - even if it takes less time.;)

    They usually aren't the next job in line, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    I agree with MarcE. It is lost profit. In a global world where everything is made in China, repair shops are a thing of the past. Shoe repair craftsmen used to build up good reputations, but there aren't many of those left and there won't be many eyeglass repair shops left.
    Just get used to the fact that the European manufacturers shipped their machine to China and the same products are coming out of there as if they would have been produced in Europe.
    When you talk to an agent at American Express I'm the Fort Lauderdale Head Office you talk to a person in New Delhi, but the end result is still the same

    Therefore nothing has changed......with the exception of the opticians that do not want to bother fixing something that is broken.............mostly because they never learned how to do it.

    If you can get away with a $ 50.00 charge for a soldering job that takes a few minutes, you better get the equipment and exercise in you spare time with some scrap frame until you can master it, $ 50.00 for 10 minutes of work which is equal to $ 300.00 an hour is a better rate Thai the dentist makes at $ 100.00 every half hour.

    Maybe more repairs might be popping up soon, instead of disappearing.

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