You're right. But if you are open to the possibility that there is a God, then here is your reasonable doubt.Originally Posted by Spexvet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_turin
You're right. But if you are open to the possibility that there is a God, then here is your reasonable doubt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_turin
If an object of faith were provable, then by definition (at least the one found in Hebrews), it wouldn't be faith...
Regarding the creation/origin of the universe, there can only be differences of faith- since science by definition concerns observable and repeatable events...
So, as we contemplate our surroundings, we are all forced to choose faith in something. Either God- gods- or in some alternative to God (i.e., that matter simply existed and time and chance have resulted in what you see each day on your drive to work).
One thing is for sure- either God created man, or man has created god. In either case, contemplation of why one would create the other results in some interesting thoughts.
Pete Hanlin, ABOM
Vice President Professional Services
Essilor of America
http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74
Someone who is (was) smarter than most of us probably are once said: "If there isn't a God, Goddess, Supreme Being, etc. then man would have to create one". (The reason that there are so many religions??)
What's so smart about that?
I would not categorize God's being the cause of the "Big Bang" as reasonable. You may believe it, but I wouldn't call it reasonable.
If you want to say that God is what created matter/energy, and caused the "Big Bang", I won't argue with you. As I said, there's no proof - I have no evidence to contradict that assertion.
The way we created Thor, Odin, Apollo, Zeuss, Quetzalcoatl, etc. Today, we look at those gods and think "How silly we were! We actually thought that a god caused thunder! Ha ha". Why do you think God that you worship today isn't in the same catagory? Now-a-days, there are few things about our existence that can't be explained: what created matter/energy, what caused the big bang, what "were" we before we were born, and what will happen to us after we die? The belief in God gives reassuring answers to folks, just as the belief in Thor reassured the folks who were afraid of thunder.
The "someone smarter" was George W. Washington.
Actually, I think the idea that there is a God is more frightening than the prospect that there is not. I think people looked up at all the stars and thought there must be a God. Then they thought, I wonder what God wants of us? I think it is not for comfort that we invent God, it's for comfort that we deny God. Think about it. "If there is no God everything is permissable." (Dostoevsky)
Pascal's wager-
What do we have to gain from believing in God and the eternal soul?
Eternal Happiness.
If I believe in God and I am wrong, I lose nothing, I'll never know that I was wrong.
If I believe in God and I am right, I gain eternal happiness.
If I don't believe in God and I am right, I still lose nothing and never the difference.
If I don't believe in God and I am wrong, I will lose eternal happiness.
I'll bet on eternal happiness.
Ignoring that Dostoevsky never wrote that, the premise here is that there is evidence for God's existence and that people are ignoring it simply so they can do whatever they want to do. That's hogwash.
There are many refutations of Pascal's wage. One of my favorites: Why would God reward you for a hedged bet?
I think, therefore I am.
Everything else simply has various degrees of plausibility.
What if you believe in God but ignore His commandments?
What if you can't bring yourself to believe in God but you follow His commandments?
What if you are a "good person" but you are too "intellectual" to believe in God?
If you are too "itellectual" to believe in God, you are a fool.
Regarding my Dostoevsky quote, perhaps I should not have put quote marks around that sentence, I suppose I summarized. So here is the quote from Brother's Karamazov.
"And here he added parenthetically that if there was any natural law, it was precisely this: Destroy a man's belief in immortality and not only will his ability to love wither away within him but, along with it, the force that impels him to continue his existence on earth. Moreover, nothing would be immoral then, everything would be permitted, even cannibalism." (Pg.88)
As for evidence of God's existence, evidence is different from proof and holds a much lower threshold. As I stated earlier in so many words, the argument from first cause is pretty convincing to me. The great Atheist philosopher has now stated that he believes there is an intelligent personal agent that has a hand in life. He was a surprise to me, but he said the argument from design persuaded him.
www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf
The commandments are from ancient eastern covenant, much like our marriage ceremony of today, but covenant is largely lost in western culture. If we think of our relationship to God like that of marriage we get a better understanding. It's about giving ourselves to one another to the death. We give everything we are and have, in exchange the other also gives everything they are and have. In the case of God, we have nothing to offer but our mind, will and desire. God gives us everything he has in exchange. That's a pretty good deal to me. It's not a legal contract that negotiates some sort of deal about following laws. Don't think in legal terms, think relationship.
I've been waiting for this to be mentioned!Easy... the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
RAmen!
Question #2:
Who is The Prince of Peace?
Is there not ample archeological proof that place, events, and people mentioned in the Bible actually existed?
As for the Noodly Appendage somebodys pretty darn good with Photo Shop there appears to be a rather large hand missing.
Mike
In many cases evidence only of their existence. Outside of the bible, I'd say that evidence of God creating the universe, of miracles is lacking.
So have I :)
Here's questions for the scientist. Where did we come from? Are we really here? Where is here? How far does infinity go? And what's on the other side of where infinity stops?
I can only speak for myself - I came from my Mama's uterus.
No.
There is no here.
Infinitely far.
Red states.
Last edited by Spexvet; 01-31-2008 at 01:05 PM.
Here's questions for the religionist. Plastic or paper? What is the sum of 3 plus cow? When is purple? Can God create a rock so large that he, himself, cannot lift it? What is your favorite color? What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
Plastic.
Sometimes but not always.
Now
Yes and No
Blue
Fast, medium and slow.
You guys , want to debate religion or none,act tough, bad and smarter than God have gotten much worst than the Jesus freaks of the recent past. Just keeping on. Maybe you should give yourself the benefit of a doubt and keep those thoughts to yourself. I have read somewhere that the fire's a little hotter for those that draw souls away.
Which do you mean? African or European?
No, yelloooooooooooooooooooow!
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