GW Bush Incompetent?

[gemstone]

I know GW aint running for president. I hear a lot of people putting him down anyway, as if he was running again. What makes him such a bad president?

[rbaker]

The jury is out on George Bush and will be for quite a few years. He will be judged from the perspective of as yet unwritten history. Unfortunately, the present aura of blind political opinion and party politics as exhibited by the press has clouded any valid assessment of his presidency.

We will see this amply demonstrated on this and other threads here on OptiBoard. Hatred or devotion to the man are so strong that any objective review of his administration or its policies are impossible. The cult of party politics has clouded our view of what is really important to our nation - a good five cent cigar.

[braheem24]

The cult of party politics has clouded our view of what is really important to our nation - a good five cent cigar.

I doubt republicans voting for Obama would agree.

[gemstone]

The jury is out on George Bush and will be for quite a few years. He will be judged from the perspective of as yet unwritten history. Unfortunately, the present aura of blind political opinion and party politics as exhibited by the press has clouded any valid assessment of his presidency.

We will see this amply demonstrated on this and other threads here on OptiBoard. Hatred or devotion to the man are so strong that any objective review of his administration or its policies are impossible. The cult of party politics has clouded our view of what is really important to our nation - a good five cent cigar.

Thanks! That's what I was thinking. When he is history and compared to Nixon,Carter and Nixon, he will shine a bit brighter.

[For-Life]

How is he not incompetent? What has he actually done?

- Started a reasonless war in Iraq
- Started a meaningful war in Afghanistan, but the mission was compromised by the attention spent in Iraq
- Did not get Osama (for reason stated before)
- Made new or made them more of enemies in North Korea and Iran
- His economics devalued the American dollar
- He doubled the deficit
- Put the fear into the hearts of Americans, so now every decision they feel threatened to do (either by terrorism or Man Bear Pig)
- Developed the Patriot Act
- Brought the US from one of its best points under Clinton to one of its worst points

I mean seriously.

[For-Life]

Thanks! That's what I was thinking. When he is history and compared to Nixon,Carter and Nixon, he will shine a bit brighter.

Don't know about that

[DragonLensmanWV]

Thanks! That's what I was thinking. When he is history and compared to Nixon,Carter and Nixon, he will shine a bit brighter.

Well, maybe brighter than Carter. I think that as far as intelligence goes though, Nixon was brighter than GW.

[Grubendol]

Well, maybe brighter than Carter. I think that as far as intelligence goes though, Nixon was brighter than GW.

As far as Intelligence, Carter was the brighest, Nixon second, GW third.

In terms of how they ran the nation, he will be judged very poorly. His lack of desire to hold people in his administration accountable for illegal acts will always harm his legacy, irregardless of how you feel he has handled terrorism.

Hindsight has judged both Nixon and Carter better than they were viewed during their times, but I suspect the opposite will be true for GW, of course we can't know for sure until a few years have passed.

It still staggers me how positively Reagan is viewed in retrospect given the economic and social crises he setup with his policies.

[1968]

What makes him such a bad president?

Contrary to his earlier assertions, he's a divider not a uniter.

[rinselberg]

Made new enemies (or more enemies) in North Korea and Iran ...

Which explains why North Korea is finally opening their nuclear facilities to international inspection and dismantling their nuclear weapons program. What did W ever do to antagonize the North Koreans? That old "axis of evil" remark? If the North Koreans were really offended by that remark, they would have responded with an international public relations makeover for themselves. They went forward and tested a nuclear weapon because that's what they intended to do regardless. Because they're a bunch of no-goodniks. But at least now they're going to be no-goodniks without a stockpile of nuclear bombs.

Reasons to dis' Bush reduced by one.

[MarcE]

Reasons to dis' Bush reduced by one.

I agree completely with that asseration. Only 99 more reasons to dis' Bush.

Reasons I, as a republician, don't like GW:

I'm not sure he has ever told the truth about anything
He has reduced our influence in the world by constantly trying to extend our influence.
He rules through fear.
He fires anyone that doesn't agree with him
His office outed a CIA agent as retaliation for telling the truth, lied about it and then pardoned the guilty. Small minded people hold grudges. Real leaders need to go on with leading.

Oh, hell I don't have time to go on. But all of these examples I have given above are the opposite of good leadership traits.

Final analysis - he is not a good leader.

[1968]

Reasons to dis' Bush reduced by one.

Not so quickly. The United States and Korea clearly remain enemies of the Cold War type, but I’m not clear on what you think Bush has done to better that relationship or work it in our favor. On one hand, you seem to suggest that Bush’s saber rattling forced North Korea into agreeing to dismantle their nuclear weapons program. On the other, you seem to suggest that North Korea is going to do what they want to do regardless of what the US says, does, or wants. Why is a third option not possible; that his form of diplomacy has worked to our detriment?

As far as I’m concerned, this most recent agreement with North Korea could fall through just as easily as the Agreed Framework fell through… on Bush’s watch after his “axis of evil” comment. Saying that did nothing to help our concerns in North Korea or elsewhere, and only served to fan the flames of war among the neo-cons and the gullible in our country. Worldwide, Bush is thought to be a threat to world peace. Whether it’s true or not, I cannot see how that perception is beneficial to American interests.

[rinselberg]

Not so quickly. The United States and Korea clearly remain enemies of the Cold War type, but I’m not clear on what you think Bush has done to better that relationship or work it in our favor. On one hand, you seem to suggest that Bush’s saber rattling forced North Korea into agreeing to dismantle their nuclear weapons program. On the other, you seem to suggest that North Korea is going to do what they want to do regardless of what the US says, does, or wants. Why is a third option not possible; that his form of diplomacy has worked to our detriment?

As far as I’m concerned, this most recent agreement with North Korea could fall through just as easily as the Agreed Framework fell through… on Bush’s watch after his “axis of evil” comment. Saying that did nothing to help our concerns in North Korea or elsewhere, and only served to fan the flames of war among the neo-cons and the gullible in our country. Worldwide, Bush is thought to be a threat to world peace. Whether it’s true or not, I cannot see how that perception is beneficial to American interests.

Re: underlined text. What have the North Koreans ever done to advance the U.S. to North Korea relationship? Aside from printing and using counterfeit U.S. currency, sharing their long range missile technology with Iran and -- oh yeah, of late -- agreeing to dismantle their nuclear program.

Worldwide, Bush is thought to be a threat to world peace.

I'd be more worried if he wasn't ... considering "the world" as we see it today.

[1968]

Re: underlined text. What have the North Koreans ever done to advance the U.S. to North Korea relationship? Aside from printing and using counterfeit U.S. currency, sharing their long range missile technology with Iran and -- oh yeah, of late -- agreeing to dismantle their nuclear program.

Nope, Kim Jong-il hasn’t done much to better the US – North Korean relationship. But since we were discussing Bush’s actions, I was hoping that you would clarify what you thought he had done to better that relationship. I take it I am to infer from the above that you think Bush’s saber rattling is responsible for getting North Korea to agree to dismantle their nuclear program, but that’s not consistent with your previous suggestion that they will do whatever they want to do regardless of what they United States says. We know that the Agreed Framework implemented before the Bush administration broke down after Bush’s “axis of evil” comment, which was perceived (right or wrong) by the North Korean’s as hostile. At best, the recent agreement puts us where we were before his comment (except that North Korea is no longer signed to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty). If we’re search for common ground on this, I’ll certainly acknowledge that any President faces a tough predicament with regards to crazy man Kim.

[rinselberg]

The Bush administration didn't put all their chips on "saber rattling". They kept pushing and plodding with the Six Party talks involving the U.S., China, Japan, North Korea, South Korea and Russia. I still have a hard time accepting the idea (if I understand that last post from 1968) that if only Bush had not let slip that "axis of evil" remark, the North Koreans would not have gone ahead and tested a nuclear weapon. It just sounds too ... facile (I guess). How much significance can anyone invest in a remark by the President of the U.S. or the leader of any other country? It's a remark. It's talk. I think that a great deal of what determines the U.S. relationship with other countries are actions and "things" that go on behind the scenes - without getting on any of the 24/7 TV news channels and the like.

Can't linger over this post right now ... need to get out the front door here.

[1968]

How much significance can anyone invest in a remark by the President of the U.S. or the leader of any other country? It's a remark. It's talk.

I think perceptions, thoughts, words, and actions are all intertwined, however, I agree that I cannot know for certain that it significantly affected the US - North Korean relationship (or lack thereof). I do think it directly affected how those in other nations perceive us and our role in the world, but the importance of that may be a debate for another day... I need to go, too.

[gemstone]

Don't know about that

Pretty obvious.

[gemstone]

How is he not incompetent? What has he actually done?

- Started a reasonless war in Iraq
- Started a meaningful war in Afghanistan, but the mission was compromised by the attention spent in Iraq
- Did not get Osama (for reason stated before)
- Made new or made them more of enemies in North Korea and Iran
- His economics devalued the American dollar
- He doubled the deficit
- Put the fear into the hearts of Americans, so now every decision they feel threatened to do (either by terrorism or Man Bear Pig)
- Developed the Patriot Act
- Brought the US from one of its best points under Clinton to one of its worst points

I mean seriously.

Thanks for the opinions. That's pretty much what I thought the liberals were tryiong to convince the lambs of.

- Started a reasonless war in Iraq Most of your alternatives suported the war and things would not be any different than they are now.

- Did not get Osama (for reason stated before)Obama is dead
- Made new or made them more of enemies in North Korea and Iran Things is these people have been our enomies for a long time. Making apeasments to them is counterproductive to peace.
- His economics devalued the American dollar What I believe has devalued the $ is the high price of oil. Most libbies ****** and moaned that the war was for cheap gas. Go figure.
- Put the fear into the hearts of Americans, so now every decision they feel threatened to do (either by terrorism or Man Bear Pig) Awareness does and will save lives. Sorry that being aware makes you affraid. Personally it makes me feel safer.
- Developed the Patriot Act It HAS saved many lives.
- Brought the US from one of its best points under Clinton to one of its worst points Slick willy rode the George Bush policies into a fine econimy. Although he did manage tax increases, if he'd had his way the tax increases probably would have turned even the most liberals into Republicans.

[Johns]

Obama is dead

Now I'm no political genius, but Obama just lost New Hampshire right? He's not really dead is he?
:bbg:

[gemstone]

Now I'm no political genius, but Obama just lost New Hampshire right? He's not really dead is he?
:bbg:

Oh crap. I did not mean that! Sorry Obama fans. I truly meant osama

[1968]

- His economics devalued the American dollar What I believe has devalued the $ is the high price of oil. Most libbies ****** and moaned that the war was for cheap gas. Go figure.

Actually, the high price of oil is due to the weakened dollar. The weakened dollar is due to an increase in the supply of money by the Federal Reserve. Why did the Federal Reserve increase the supply of money? In part, to fund the WAR. (We sure wouldn't be able to fund it with TAX CUTS, now would we?)

[Johns]

Oh crap. I did not mean that! Sorry Obama fans. I truly meant osama

I really do (really) believe that you made an honest slip...but doesn't it really illustrate how easily the association could be made?

Obama bin laden?


Pretty weird...

[gemstone]

Actually, the high price of oil is due to the weakened dollar. The weakened dollar is due to an increase in the supply of money by the Federal Reserve. Why did the Federal Reserve increase the supply of money? In part, to fund the WAR. (We sure wouldn't be able to fund it with TAX CUTS, now would we?)

I am all for TAX RELIEF. That is pretty much trhe most significant difference in the parties. I vote tax relief above anything.

[gemstone]

I really do (really) believe that you made an honest slip...but doesn't it really illustrate how easily the association could be made?

Obama bin laden?


Pretty weird...

Only an ignorant unformed "voter" would be confused by the association. It's like this. There are more people by far, on the optiboard that will whine about my typo than ignorant "voters" that will fall for my "trick'. Actually I don't figure to fool anyone. Please let me know if I fool anyone.

[HarryChiling]

Only an ignorant unformed "voter" would be confused by the association. It's like this. There are more people by far, on the optiboard that will whine about my typo than ignorant "voters" that will fall for my "trick'. Actually I don't figure to fool anyone. Please let me know if I fool anyone.

You fooled me.:D I am all against TAX RELIEF. I would much rather responsible spending of taxes BEFORE tax relief. By the way Bush did give out NO BID CONTRATS to his croanies (KBR, Custer Battles) in this war and flew tons of money into Iraq and had no plans of it's allocation, put an idiot in charge of the Katrina disaster, sent a 24 yo to reopen the Iraq stock exchange, put a recent gradute of an evangelic university for home shooled kids in charge of $13 billion, James K. Haveman in charge of rehabing the health care system in Iraq decided that a no smoking campaign was urgent for this country, 190000 weapons went missing in Iraq that's about 1 in 3 (here's a hint these aren't going to the good guys). I could go on......

Horrible Leader, donwright crook and a snake is a better description and he shouldn't be impeached he should be hung.