Spartan Edger !!! Shes Gone MAD !!!

**SurferDude** · 12-14-2007, 01:10 AM

I need some help here,

We have an older Spartan Edger / Gen 1 (pump inlets lower bottom area).

For the last few weeks I have noticed a problem get out of control. When cutting any bifocal / progressive jobs the right lens will be generally nice and straight (axis great). However as soon as you pop in your left lens ..... The axis is knocked off !!! The tilt is generally clockwise ... Now this does not happen on every job, however it can happen on 7 out of 10 jobs .....

I have tried to edit the axis settings however the axis is not based on each lens individually but to the actual chuck size eg half eye / full eye

... I replaced all the wheels 3 weeks ago / fealer was done about a week ago and also a thrust bearing washer ... However I have had no luck ...

If anyone has any idea what the heck could be wrong please let me know

thank you !!!!!!

ps this machine is calibrated often / taken care of, also the tracer unit is only approx 1 month old and again it has been taken care of

**Johns** · 12-14-2007, 09:35 AM

I don't know anything aboutyour edger, but welcome to Otpiboard!:cheers:

:D Good Luck!

**Fezz** · 12-14-2007, 09:38 AM

Hey Dude,

I'll second Johns welcome!

Have you recently changed you pads? Are you doing more slick-coat type AR jobs?

**braheem24** · 12-14-2007, 09:38 AM

Have you checked your chuck pressure?

Welcome to optiboard! x3

**DragonLensmanWV** · 12-14-2007, 09:46 AM

Welcome. also!
I also know nothing about your edger. But in general, left lenses face a bit more torque at first due to the decentration of the lens and the point of rotation at which the lens hits the wheels. Does your edger use a belt to turn the lens spindle? If so, I would look at it to see if it's slipping a tooth.
As others suggested, look at your chucking pressure too.

**FullCircle** · 12-14-2007, 10:37 AM

Do you have a boat? If so, take Spartan, tie a rope to it and use it as an anchor.

No boat? Tie a shorter rope to it and use it as an emergency brake for your car.

All kidding aside. Is it happening with poly, plastic, hi index? Thicker lenses, or does it matter?

I'll check our notes @ work today as tovarious problems we had and see if we had similar issues (I think we did)

**Leo Hadley Jr** · 12-14-2007, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by DragonLensmanWV

Welcome. also!
I also know nothing about your edger. But in general, left lenses face a bit more torque at first due to the decentration of the lens and the point of rotation at which the lens hits the wheels. Does your edger use a belt to turn the lens spindle? If so, I would look at it to see if it's slipping a tooth.
As others suggested, look at your chucking pressure too.

Ditto,

I am willing to bet that these jobs have more decentration than the others and also may be more pilot shaped creating more torque on the left. Your answer may be as simple as dull wheels causing slippage.

**CME4SPECS** · 12-14-2007, 12:13 PM

How about looking at the new tracer. See if you trace just right eye if it fixes the problem.

**SurferDude** · 12-14-2007, 01:39 PM

Well, for now I have started to use my Santenilli edger, however I dont want to make this a habit ....

For the most part the spartan edger was not that bad .... the main issue was always sizing. This axis issue is just making me go mad, a few things I have done ..

Chuck pressure generally I am using a low pressure for a/r jobs to minimize any crazed lenses, however I have tested the different pressure settings to see if it would affect the axis issue and honestly no luck at all !

tracer, thats what I thought it could be so I took a look at the stylis, tried to trace individual eyes such as the left or right ... again it would still throw the lens off, I even decided to change the keypad to my brand new unit (thats how much this is annoying me haha)

at first I beleived that the issue was having more of a situation with small b measurement frames (with mvp / bifocal lenses). However even with larger frames it does affect the axis .... Rimless jobs show the most affect by far ....

none of our pads have changed for protection, so I cant see it being an issue, the belt idea is very good (and yes it does have a belt) :) I did take a look at the teeth and they dont look to pad however to be on the safe side I will replace it.

I looked at the wheels and decided to polish them / sharpen them as requested by a technician with the proper honing sticks ....

.... i will keep you guys posted and often check back here for any solutions

I really do appreciate it , fantastic board ...

PS I dont have a boat , but I do have a pick up truck :) hahaha

**Audiyoda** · 12-15-2007, 06:47 AM

FYI - Spartan Edger = hybrid design of Gerber Triumph and Gerber Kappa. The Spartan was originally designed for LensCrafters when Lux Retail decided to upgrade all 500+ stores to patterness (circa 2000). I was working in one of the 8 offices that were used for the 'test' - they tested the Spartan, Optronics 6, Santinelli 9000 and a Briot (two labs each had 1 of those edgers) The Santinelli had the best numbers of the bunch - both test labs ran about a 98% one cut rate. At the time the Spartan had the worse - around 70%. Which did Lux buy - the cheapest which was the Spartan (by approx. $500/unit).

That machine drove me nuts for 3 months - granted our office received the third machine off the line so there were bound to be a few bugs. But we didn't get a respectable one cut rate for about three months. Once we got it tweaked just right it was a decent machine. But those first three months were horrid - especially after having a Santinelli 9000 in the office for 6 weeks.

**Thumbs** · 12-15-2007, 08:54 AM

When you check your belt also check the lens drive motor for a smooth operation. Spin the lens drive motor shaft and make sure that it rotates smoothly and no binding is apparent, usually feels like a bad bearing, if it is not smooth, replace. If it is smooth, the main cuplrit is probably the logic cable, the grey colored wiring harness, they have small diameter wires and have been known to break inside the insulation covers and cause sporatic problems such as off-axis inconsistancy, lens rotation speeds, etc...
Most likely this problem has nothing to do with the tracer because even though you are tracing both right and left sides of your frame, the left shape is a mirror image of the right tracing from the tracer. It is not seperate image data from the tracer when you choose the left eye at the edger.

If you go to www.GerberCoburn.com and establish a login, you will have access to all technical information available from Essilor regarding all of the edgers that GerberCoburn distributes for them.

Good Luck!!!

**FullCircle** · 12-18-2007, 07:40 AM

Checked at work. We did have the same type of problems. Turns out it was a combination of things.

1. dulling of the wheels.
2. readjustment needed of the OS compensation setting. Unfortunately, I can't tell you how to get to that screen as we got rid of our manuals when we got rid of the machine.

**Dannyboy** · 12-18-2007, 11:13 PM

The edger and the tracer may need an axis compensation. The edger may have to go a couple of degrees positive and the edger a couple of degrees negative. Also make sure the belts are tight as well. What type of tracer do you have?

Dannyboy

**bhess25** · 12-19-2007, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by SurferDude

Well, for now I have started to use my Santenilli edger, however I dont want to make this a habit ....

For the most part the spartan edger was not that bad .... the main issue was always sizing. This axis issue is just making me go mad, a few things I have done ..

Chuck pressure generally I am using a low pressure for a/r jobs to minimize any crazed lenses, however I have tested the different pressure settings to see if it would affect the axis issue and honestly no luck at all !

tracer, thats what I thought it could be so I took a look at the stylis, tried to trace individual eyes such as the left or right ... again it would still throw the lens off, I even decided to change the keypad to my brand new unit (thats how much this is annoying me haha)

at first I beleived that the issue was having more of a situation with small b measurement frames (with mvp / bifocal lenses). However even with larger frames it does affect the axis .... Rimless jobs show the most affect by far ....

none of our pads have changed for protection, so I cant see it being an issue, the belt idea is very good (and yes it does have a belt) :) I did take a look at the teeth and they dont look to pad however to be on the safe side I will replace it.

I looked at the wheels and decided to polish them / sharpen them as requested by a technician with the proper honing sticks ....

.... i will keep you guys posted and often check back here for any solutions

I really do appreciate it , fantastic board ...

PS I dont have a boat , but I do have a pick up truck :) hahaha

I had that problem with our alpha...it was the reproducer (big screw motor)..stopped it quick!!

**SurferDude** · 12-21-2007, 01:42 PM

Thanks for the replies , I am trying different methods this is what I have so far.

Replaced the logic cable (it was my first time) so it was a bit "different" at first I was very very happy !! All the cuts 100 percent perfect, however as a few days passed I started to notice my chucks would be slanted (even worse then before). I went into the menu system and looked at my settings for the axis ... keep in mind the axis control on this menu is only controlled by the size of the chuck eg half eye / full eye (no r / l) .... So I adjusted very slightly to approx .2 + however it did not fix the problem

I played around with the axis with no luck, what im getting is this on most jobs the axis is going off about 3 / 4 degrees "less," the big issue I have right now is .... why is it cutting one day perfect the next day garbage ?

I dont beleive my wheels are damaged they are honestly only a few months old, could I have done something when I was honing them ? how do I go about OS compensation ?

thanks a bunch !!!

ps the power supply was also replaced / new fuses etc just to be on the safe side

**chip anderson** · 12-21-2007, 01:49 PM

Have you put a micrometer to all shafts and holders for lenses, patterns, etc? Sounds like a wear problem somewhere to me. A good machinist should be able to help.

Chip

**bhess25** · 12-21-2007, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by SurferDude

Thanks for the replies , I am trying different methods this is what I have so far.

Replaced the logic cable (it was my first time) so it was a bit "different" at first I was very very happy !! All the cuts 100 percent perfect, however as a few days passed I started to notice my chucks would be slanted (even worse then before). I went into the menu system and looked at my settings for the axis ... keep in mind the axis control on this menu is only controlled by the size of the chuck eg half eye / full eye (no r / l) .... So I adjusted very slightly to approx .2 + however it did not fix the problem

I played around with the axis with no luck, what im getting is this on most jobs the axis is going off about 3 / 4 degrees "less," the big issue I have right now is .... why is it cutting one day perfect the next day garbage ?

I dont beleive my wheels are damaged they are honestly only a few months old, could I have done something when I was honing them ? how do I go about OS compensation ?

thanks a bunch !!!

ps the power supply was also replaced / new fuses etc just to be on the safe side

3 or 4 degrees was happening alot to us...but i cant remember what we had to replace when it did that....ill have to dig around im my PO book and see what it was...ill get back to ya.

**Leonidas** · 02-24-2012, 04:29 PM

Had this situation a couple weeks ago with ours. Replaced the eprom chip on the CPU board and that took care of the problem. Went back and reset all Axis on machine after new chip was installed. Have not had a problem since. Hope this helps.

**JohnJ** · 02-25-2012, 02:11 PM

Your edger can be off axis in the left and not the right. Score and block a lens using a large block on the 180 axis, read the square bar code, cut the lens and axis line should go thru the two points of the shape. If the line only goes thru one point and not the other, only one lens will be off axis. Looking at the lens from the concave side towards you, if the line on the right side is above the point add more (+) value to the axis adjust screen. If the line is below add more (-) value. You will need to do this for each material with the large block. For the small block scan the half eye shape barcode and do the same score and block using 18mm blocks for each material and adjust accordingly.

**JohnJ** · 02-25-2012, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Had this situation a couple weeks ago with ours. Replaced the eprom chip on the CPU board and that took care of the problem. Went back and reset all Axis on machine after new chip was installed. Have not had a problem since. Hope this helps.

There is a barcode available that will erase the EPROM chip so you don't have to replace.u

**LLano** · 06-15-2012, 11:51 AM

I have the opportunity to purchase an Esprit (Spartan) edger. It's never been used. The plug assembly is 220v. I've used a Spartan in the past and it was 110. Will there be a problem simply getting a 110 plug and plugging this thing in?? No wiring necessary, there is a male Adapter on the machine, looks like I could easily convert.

Signed,
Electrically challenged

**Leo Hadley Jr** · 06-15-2012, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by LLano

I have the opportunity to purchase an Esprit (Spartan) edger. It's never been used. The plug assembly is 220v. I've used a Spartan in the past and it was 110. Will there be a problem simply getting a 110 plug and plugging this thing in?? No wiring necessary, there is a male Adapter on the machine, looks like I could easily convert.

Signed,
Electrically challenged

If the machine requires 220v, you must give it 220. You could get an electrician to run a 220 line to the edger location for a very reasonable price.

**JohnJ** · 06-17-2012, 06:44 AM

If you want to convert the edger to 115v, you will need to change the power cord connector to 115v, the on/off switch to 115v and reconfigure the power supply to 115v (via 115v barcode from Essilor). I agree with Leo you should just hve a 220v line run by an electrician. FYI, depending on if you are going to use a pump and bucket or direct water connection, your pump and solenoid valeves also have to be 220v or 115v depending on voltage powering edger.

**jrh291** · 11-21-2013, 01:20 AM

I used to run a Gerber Alpha, which looks like it's a blood relative to the Spartan. Had a field tech out and he changed a bearing to fix the problem you are having. I don't know why the problem is only affects the left lens, but it did on mine also. Don't know about the Eprom chip, but it would be cheaper with less downtime if it works. I'd try it, if the Coburn people tell you it should, but on mine it was a bearing or 2. I loved the Alpha. It was fast, I loved the custom bevel feature. However, we had them in two offices and after about 3 years, both became buggy. Takes longer than that to pay for one. Santinelli's I've known last 10 to 15 years, with one wheel change. Only issue with Santinelli is speed, but that may be because I used it to pin & safety bevel, grooving and polishing when ordered. I always had something else to do while the Santinelli went through the paces, so it was not a factor in my 20 job a day lab. It did a beautiful job of grooving and the extra beveling. If I had more volume, I would have turned off the safety beveling, and gave the lenses 5 seconds each hand-beveling. That would reduce the totaling edging time by more than half.

**Flux3r** · 11-21-2013, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by SurferDude

Well, for now I have started to use my Santenilli edger, however I dont want to make this a habit ....

For the most part the spartan edger was not that bad .... the main issue was always sizing. This axis issue is just making me go mad, a few things I have done ..

Chuck pressure generally I am using a low pressure for a/r jobs to minimize any crazed lenses, however I have tested the different pressure settings to see if it would affect the axis issue and honestly no luck at all !

tracer, thats what I thought it could be so I took a look at the stylis, tried to trace individual eyes such as the left or right ... again it would still throw the lens off, I even decided to change the keypad to my brand new unit (thats how much this is annoying me haha)

at first I beleived that the issue was having more of a situation with small b measurement frames (with mvp / bifocal lenses). However even with larger frames it does affect the axis .... Rimless jobs show the most affect by far ....

none of our pads have changed for protection, so I cant see it being an issue, the belt idea is very good (and yes it does have a belt) :) I did take a look at the teeth and they dont look to pad however to be on the safe side I will replace it.

I looked at the wheels and decided to polish them / sharpen them as requested by a technician with the proper honing sticks ....

.... i will keep you guys posted and often check back here for any solutions

I really do appreciate it , fantastic board ...

PS I dont have a boat , but I do have a pick up truck :) hahaha

santinelli tracers have a rotation position setting that may be off. i fixed ours last week same issue. you should call them and have them walk you through it. ours was +1.2 degrees when it shouldve been -0.4 degrees!