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Thread: New Comfort?

  1. #51
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipoptical View Post
    It's basically this...
    The Panamic is a very precise lens, meaning that everything has to be in line for the lens to work. The design of the lens was meant to be useful for any type of lifestyle. Because it was so precise in it's placement of viewing zones, any shift would throw off the balance and make viewing difficult. It is a non-forgiving lens. Most modern PALs can be off by 1-3 mm either in seg height or PD, do not require (necessarily) an exact amount or parabolic curve or pantoscopic tilt, and they may sit a little crooked on the face and still be OK. None of that is true with the Panamic. That doesn't mean everyone will suffer when they bump their glasses, the temples get floppy, or the seg height is a bit off. The problem is that the majority will. This could account for some of the discussion regarding adaptation vs. satisfaction. You may adapt quickly to this lens, but you likely will not be satisfied in the long run. (Why do you think there is a Comfort 360 and NOT a Panamic 360?)
    Wanna bet that's next?:D
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  2. #52
    lens-o-matic bhess25's Avatar
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    i smell a panamic 360 comming....would they be so bold as to skip the 360 and go straight for the panamic 1440?
    equal opportunity offender!!

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcE View Post
    If you are fitting the Ovation ADS (Accolade in US, I believe), you are already fitting a superior lens to the Comfort 360; if this new Comfort is indeed based on the old design. It will be more expensive than the Physio and equal or maybe a little less expensive than the Physio 360.
    No thanks, no way. I like to give my profit margins to myself and not Essilor.

    You're gonna have to explain that one to me. The Ovation ADS is simply a digitally surfaced Ovation. The comfort 360 will be a digital comfort, plain and simple. The price difference was very small between the Ovation and the ADS... now I'm going to assume there's going to be a bigger price difference between the Comfort and the 360, but they're not going to price it as high as you say, because they still want people to use the physio. Essilor's thing now it to get everyone into a 'digital lens!' ADS being your lower end, Physio 360 being the higher. The comfort is going to land somewhere between them, but I don't think it'll be as high as the Physio. (and yes, I can definatly see them coming out with a Panamic 360, which again will fall between the comfort 360 and the physio 360... even more reason for the comfort 360 to be lower priced.)

  4. #54
    Professional Rabble-Rouser hipoptical's Avatar
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    I say there will be no Panamic 360, and the Comfort 360 was brought out because they can't sell enough Physio to justify the cost of the investment in the Definity. Think about it....
    If they were selling as many as they would have you believe, then there would be no production room for anything else. They are not buying up tons of new lathes and polishers, they are just trying to make the initial investment work. The older equipment has been cost-justified years ago, so they are trying to now cut the need for production employees by using less labor-intensive equipment. Fewer people handling product usually means fewer mistakes. All this talk about "better for the patient" is really bunk. The real driving force is $$. There is no new business out there, so labs must find a way to steal it from each other. Thus, the old lens comes out, made in a new way, and people assume that it must be better. The "company" knows that the old is more trusted than the new, so they push it, and leave the "new" lenses to "a more upscale wearer who desires only the best". (Which is translated: we have other lenses for people who have lots of dollars, but no sense (cents).) :)
    The ONLY reason you will see a Panamic 360 is if The Evil Empire decides to go totally (or mostly) "free-form". It will be a matter of production, and NOT quality or performance. Of course, they will never admit that unless it's strictly "off-the-record".
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralKnight View Post
    You're gonna have to explain that one to me. The Ovation ADS is simply a digitally surfaced Ovation. The comfort 360 will be a digital comfort, plain and simple. The price difference was very small between the Ovation and the ADS... now I'm going to assume there's going to be a bigger price difference between the Comfort and the 360, but they're not going to price it as high as you say, because they still want people to use the physio. Essilor's thing now it to get everyone into a 'digital lens!' ADS being your lower end, Physio 360 being the higher. The comfort is going to land somewhere between them, but I don't think it'll be as high as the Physio. (and yes, I can definatly see them coming out with a Panamic 360, which again will fall between the comfort 360 and the physio 360... even more reason for the comfort 360 to be lower priced.)
    I agree. And what better way to start than having their best selling lens made into 360.

    It is a smart move. Those who want to go high end will use Physio and Ipseo. Those who want to stay the present course will use their current lens, with the 360 or digital process.

    Yes, we will get OBers who will complain, but there will be many more people using these new lenses and being very satisfied with the results. If Zeiss or Shamir did the same, no one would be complaining.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipoptical View Post
    It's basically this...
    The Panamic is a very precise lens, meaning that everything has to be in line for the lens to work.
    Yes, I have heard this and I find this kind of information very valuable. I have fit quite a few Panamics over the years with very few problems but maybe that is because I am very anal about measuring progressives. I had a pair and they were fine, but they were probably fit correctly.

    I can't remember the last time I fit one, though.

  7. #57
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happylady View Post
    I have fit quite a few Panamics over the years with very few problems but maybe that is because I am very anal about measuring progressives.
    Gee, I've had only mediocre success with panamic, but excellent acceptance with this lens is wraps!

    Maybe my clients aren't so *anal* about how well they keep their eyewear in place...

    Barry

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipoptical View Post
    The ONLY reason you will see a Panamic 360 is if The Evil Empire decides to go totally (or mostly) "free-form". It will be a matter of production, and NOT quality or performance. Of course, they will never admit that unless it's strictly "off-the-record".
    There's no if about it. They've already decided. They're going to milk it though, releasing the new lenses slowly. They want to say "We're the only ones with a digital lens for everyone!". Motives aside, it's a good buisness model. But if they keep going with the trend and not make new lenses to suppliment, they'll be left behind. They know that as well though.

  9. #59
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    What is evil about turning the whole product line digital? To me that is smart business. Who is at a disadvantage?

  10. #60
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    I never said it was evil, it's wonderful business too, not disputing that. The big disadvantage is if they concentrate purely on the "OMG IT'S DIGITAL" part, and forget to make new lenses, a lot of people are going to be stuck in old lenses, instead of newer/better designs. But I don't think they'll do that.

    To set the record straight, I have absolutely no problem with Essilor. They're great to us, and I'd never call them evil :)

  11. #61
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    You have been fair. I was more referring to the others.

  12. #62
    Professional Rabble-Rouser hipoptical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life View Post
    You have been fair. I was more referring to the others.
    You refer to me...

    I don't call them evil, though, so be fair. I call them The Evil Empire. I only say this because it's true. Anyone who thinks differently has already had a glass of their kool-aid or a labotomy or both.

    :D
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipoptical View Post
    You refer to me...

    I don't call them evil, though, so be fair. I call them The Evil Empire. I only say this because it's true. Anyone who thinks differently has already had a glass of their kool-aid or a labotomy or both.

    :D
    Not directed to one person. Talking about regular comments from several

  14. #64
    lens-o-matic bhess25's Avatar
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    that was a failed attempt at starting more trouble...man that doesnt happen often!!!..so whats the 360 designation for?...Theyve tried everything around and only ended up back where they started? sounds like the crap went full circle and they decided to give it some new designation to sell more!!!:D
    equal opportunity offender!!

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