Thickness issues

[MTAMERIUS]

Hello,
I'm trying to find a resource guide that will explain plus lenses and center thickness to our customers. One of the biggest problems we face in the lab business is trying to explain why a +5.00 lens in CR-39 has to be 7mm thick too cut out (example). We can't seem to find a way to explain to our customers why they can't ask for a center thickness on a plus RX.

It is sad to say, but most the opticians we deal with just don't understand optics. The other problem is the mass merchants have figured out how to cheat on insets to make a cosmetically pleasing lens. I would say over 50% of the thickness calls ( this pair is thicker than the old ones ) is traced back to this issue.

Any suggestions?

[optical24/7]

Does your lab have a rep? If so send him out to talk to and explain optics 101 to the problem accounts. You might also sugest they come by to take a tour of the lab. You could also send out a flyer with basic info with illustrations.

[hipoptical]

The OLA has a great publication that would help called Perspective on Lenses. They run about $15 each, but it is truly worth it. Only one per office required, it is a great training tool.

[KStraker]

Explain to your customers that plus lenses are thicker in the middle and thinner on the edges. Minus lenses are thinner in the middle and thicker on the edges. Pull out some drastic examples to demonstrate the trend.

For a plus prescription the important aspect is edge thickness, not center thickness. The edge should be about the same thickness as the eyewire, at the thinnest edge of the lens. If it is any thinner, the lens will be prone to warping, chipping, and will be quite sharp on the edge. So, for plus, the edge thickness is the key. The center will follow naturally based on Rx and amount of decentration. Good Luck.


edit for clarity: I'm not saying this is news to you personally. I'm sure you are familiar.

[HarryChiling]

A nice cross section of a plus and minus lens should do the trick.

[RustyS]

I just drew a curved line and used my pd stick as plano rear curve and pushed the stick saying the power was the same and showed correlation between CT and power. It was easy, but i did it a lot and surfaced almost all my plus powers over 2 diopters and specified my ET.

[rep]

Hello,
I'm trying to find a resource guide that will explain plus lenses and center thickness to our customers. One of the biggest problems we face in the lab business is trying to explain why a +5.00 lens in CR-39 has to be 7mm thick too cut out (example). We can't seem to find a way to explain to our customers why they can't ask for a center thickness on a plus RX.

It is sad to say, but most the opticians we deal with just don't understand optics. The other problem is the mass merchants have figured out how to cheat on insets to make a cosmetically pleasing lens. I would say over 50% of the thickness calls ( this pair is thicker than the old ones ) is traced back to this issue.

Any suggestions?

is exacerbated by nylor rimless frames (due to the strap thickness necessary to keep the lens from flaking) and half eyes where labs are directed by the cheap account to use a stock lens and at the same time keep it as thin as possible.

People were amazed at the difference in thickness of our lens vs others because we took the strap thickness and subtracted how many mm it could be reduced by specifying a center thickness. :D

It pays to know those things, but it sounds like someone is allowing your customers/patients to choose frames that are totally innapropriate for their plus RX.

Rep

[HarryChiling]

It pays to know those things, but it sounds like someone is allowing your customers/patients to choose frames that are totally innapropriate for their plus RX.

Rep

Jackpot, but it's a whole heck of a lot easier to send out a demo to hopefully help get the message across then try and retrain all you accounts. Unless that's what you are looking to do, you could always have a CE written about lens power, thickness and frame choices. Then offer it free to all your accounts, minimal cost and it will drive the point home.

[RustyS]

your in the lab biz sorry misread. I am not sure how i would approach that issue other than to say when i ran a dispensary if you couldnt grasp that concept do not call the lab. The shelves are always dusty and the dye tank needs changing. I remember getting spot quizzes all day when i was younger. I would be handed an RX and hear "no pencils quick whats the power through the 180" if i answered right i would get the next "how much prism is there in what direction if the pd was 68". If i answered any of them wrong the only response i would get was "IDIOT" and they walked away. Its sad to see those opticians leaving the field (retiring) it is a different world now.

[k12311997]

Hello,
I'm trying to find a resource guide that will explain plus lenses and center thickness to our customers. One of the biggest problems we face in the lab business is trying to explain why a +5.00 lens in CR-39 has to be 7mm thick too cut out (example). We can't seem to find a way to explain to our customers why they can't ask for a center thickness on a plus RX.

It is sad to say, but most the opticians we deal with just don't understand optics. The other problem is the mass merchants have figured out how to cheat on insets to make a cosmetically pleasing lens. I would say over 50% of the thickness calls ( this pair is thicker than the old ones ) is traced back to this issue.

Any suggestions?

Is everybody missing the real problem here. MTAMERIUS's customers are us -Opticians, Dr.'s Offices, Optical Retail - and he has to explain that he can't have a +5.00 with a 1.0 ct. Why are there people out there in our professions that need that explained to them by their lab? No wonder we get no respect from our customers/ clients / patients

[cocoisland58]

Jackpot, but it's a whole heck of a lot easier to send out a demo to hopefully help get the message across then try and retrain all you accounts. Unless that's what you are looking to do, you could always have a CE written about lens power, thickness and frame choices. Then offer it free to all your accounts, minimal cost and it will drive the point home.

Apparently not understanding the basics and calling yourself an optician is ok? Anyway, in this case it would probably be a great idea to send out info in very, very simple terms "optics for dummies?" Nothing wrong with that, many of us have a few of the "dummie" books lying around at home. If you want to avoid pulling your hair out these accounts need to learn and so you need to become the teacher. A CE would be great as long as everyone reads it. There are some offices where the "smart one" takes the CE test and everyone else copies it and sends it in.

[LENNY]

1. The lab asumes that the people who place orders are opticians!
2. Spend money for HI or poly in aspheric designs. You will get lenses as thin as they come!

[Optowoman]

Spend the money on a decent optician.

[optigrrl]

It's an epidemic. I can't tell you how many labs have told me that they get that one on a daily basis. Now that I am in the field as a rep I see that there is a major shortage of good opticians.

I could theorize but that would be another thread....

[MarcE]

It's an epidemic. I can't tell you how many labs have told me that they get that one on a daily basis. Now that I am in the field as a rep I see that there is a major shortage of good opticians.

I could theorize but that would be another thread....

We have frame stylists and me, the optician. There isn't an optician working at Wal-Mart or Sam's that I know of. They are all frame stylists. I'll admit that our stylists don't understand the optics, and what CT they can order. But they don't place orders either.

On another note. I see way too much CR-39 out there coming from independents. The reason that the lenses are thick compared to the chains is because they use H.I. and Asp poly, and many of you are using CR because of "optical" qualities that only 2 out of 100 hyperopes can discern anyway.

My advice, don't use poly because you are afraid of lawyers. Use it because you are afraid of the competition.

When I see a nylon rimless that is chipped, I am recruiting a new customer. "Wow, I can't believe you were put into that cheap lens, we only use impact resistant lenses in our rimless so this won't happen". Case closed. They aren't going back to the place that sold that lens.

[k12311997]

:cheers::cheers:

[HarryChiling]

Spend money for HI or poly in aspheric designs. You will get lenses as thin as they come!

That's one of the biggest problems I face is the selling of HI and asph in patients who choose frames with a 8mm decentration, at that point why even bother.

The choice in thin lens design begins with the frame, a good fit is key. I like to point out to high Rx patients that when they try on frame they should be looking for their eyes to be as centered as possible in the frame and those would be the best fit for making thin lenses. From their I will add in recommendations like (+) powers, "if you choose a semi or rimless the lenses need to be made thicker to support the drill or monofilament", for (-) powers, "a great way to hide the thickness is to look for bolder styles with thicker eyewire or zyls, these frames will hide some of the edge thickness, with rimless and semirimless the edges become more noticable so keep that in mind". Most of the time I am helping them with their frame choices and will help guide them towards great frame.

I am not sure how i would approach that issue other than to say when i ran a dispensary if you couldnt grasp that concept do not call the lab. The shelves are always dusty and the dye tank needs changing. I remember getting spot quizzes all day when i was younger. I would be handed an RX and hear "no pencils quick whats the power through the 180" if i answered right i would get the next "how much prism is there in what direction if the pd was 68". If i answered any of them wrong the only response i would get was "IDIOT" and they walked away. Its sad to see those opticians leaving the field (retiring) it is a different world now.

It used to be that you started in the back house and worked your way to the front, so only after you saw your share of lenses and became familiar with what you were doing did you finally get to help the patient. It's the other way around now, I even get requests from patients to have me come out of the lab to help them.

[SRL]

Unfortunately, you are all right. It starts with the dispensers, opticians, frame stylist or whatever name they're going by in dealing with the sales. Without an understanding of basic lens design and the myriad of hybrid materials available, how are they to make an informed decision. I'm afraid that most of the people doing the selling take the path of least resistance, thereby putting the fabricating lab in a perilous position, and doing a grave misservice to the patient.
It seems that one solution, as previously mentioned, is to educate the sales people at your good accounts. Yes this is time consuming and you are bound to incur some expense, but think of the rewards in terms of solidifying the devotion of the owners who realize a growth in sales due to the use of correct (and usually more expensive) products. Not to mention customer retention due to esthetically pleasing and optically correct eyewear.

[LENNY]

That's one of the biggest problems I face is the selling of HI and asph in patients who choose frames with a 8mm decentration, at that point why even bother.

Good luck fitting a melon head with a chicken PD without 10mm decentration!
What difference will it make from the lab point of view! The no dec 40 eye size oval frame does not exist anymore. At least in our woods!

[optigrrl]

Unfortunately, you are all right. It starts with the dispensers, opticians, frame stylist or whatever name they're going by in dealing with the sales. Without an understanding of basic lens design and the myriad of hybrid materials available, how are they to make an informed decision. I'm afraid that most of the people doing the selling take the path of least resistance, thereby putting the fabricating lab in a perilous position, and doing a grave misservice to the patient.
It seems that one solution, as previously mentioned, is to educate the sales people at your good accounts. Yes this is time consuming and you are bound to incur some expense, but think of the rewards in terms of solidifying the devotion of the owners who realize a growth in sales due to the use of correct (and usually more expensive) products. Not to mention customer retention due to esthetically pleasing and optically correct eyewear.

SRL has a very good point. Another solution could be that instead of spending money on fantastic dinners to launch new progressives the labs could also spend a little money hosting abo approved workshops on the basics. That way they could reach several accounts at once.

[bren_03825]

SRL has a very good point. Another solution could be that instead of spending money on fantastic dinners to launch new progressives the labs could also spend a little money hosting abo approved workshops on the basics. That way they could reach several accounts at once.

Here Here.

My optometrist let me know he didn't do as good of training as he could, so thats where I started when he hired me. They start in the lab, understand Rx's then help people. Even though they do not edge, I make them learn, because they need it to understand. ABO approved workshops, or even non abo approved training is what your accounts need. We do have too few opticians, and too many "stylists" around, frames look good, but are they appropriate?