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Thread: Fastgrind 2000

  1. #1
    Bad address email on file willsaake's Avatar
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    Question Fastgrind 2000

    :idea:

    Is anyone familiar with the Fastgrind 2000 surfacing system made by Superoptical? I am curious if it is a good machine and will it work with all lens types? I'd appreciate any feedback on this. The office I work is considering one and any useful info would be helpful.

  2. #2
    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    Will,

    Alot will depend on your lens designs before I would jump into this boat :finger: All it amounts to is you get a computer with a very simple program, you get pre=blocked lens WITH it be partially cut and then the "fast grind" (fancy term for cylinder machine brings in the total power.. the problems? .. You have to use thier pre-blocked lens..thier designs, so if you do a lot of PAL's then this probably wouldn' be the best answer... be sure and ask for EXACTLY what lens they will provide and designs.. plus you can't get prism thinning in a pre-mounted lens unless you want to play with off setting the blocks and hoping you do not get vertical imbalance ...You might also consider what some of us old (well sort of old) lab guys think about what happens when you have to run a lens for 4 or 5 minutes on a cylinder machine.. you pick up EVERY wave in a tool.. you find that that "slight" out of adjustment you never considered when running them for a minute has suddenly became a 1^ of vertical imbalance....

    So, if you are mechanically inclined and have patients and can crank out enough bi-focals and tri0focals to make it cost effective then it comes down to $$ ... I would sit down and figure out what exactly you are paying for uncut work..say FT28, then make sure you get an exact price of the blocked FT28's from F.G and figure in the breakage and wages and supplies (pads etc) and see if it is cost effective... if you can't use the machine for atleast 50% or greater of everything you put out then I might give it a pass... new toys are great (I have tons) but is it cost effective? Plug in the numbers and find it out...
    Oh and ask if the wobble assembly is sealed or they still using the oldeer kind that always needs greased if you want the bearings to last... also ask about the lens available.. how much you have to keep stocked etc. etc...

    Last but not least I know one OD who had it installed... I told him more or less the same things I just told you, but I figure he thought I was trying to talk him out of it because he is one of my accounts ... I knw that I still have to do around 65to 70% of his work (uncut) and he uses it for about 15% of his work.. of course he won't admitt I was right and he was wrong..mainly because he is a hard headed OD and I'm just a little ole lab rat;) ..Bt since the only thing I reallt lost was some of the FT's and a few "basic" PAL's I don't mind in the least..
    I'll ask him to talk to you if you want and I'm sure he can tell you somethings..kind of a touchy subject between us (me and the OD) but maybe he won't mind...

    hope some of this was helpful... have a great 4th and tell your Pops I said "hi" :cheers:

    Jeff

  3. #3

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    Will,

    I can tell you form experience that the fast grind works, but there is much to consider. One thing I encountered is the extra time involved to process, If you don't have a full time lab tech you might have to hire one to run enough jobs to make it worth while.
    Also, I was not completely happy with leaving the back side of the lenses uncoated...my personal preference. Not to mention you are held captive by the lenses Super Systems is offering and ordering different brands will not give your investment full attention.

    The volume you do will also play a role in your decision, i can tell you that I worked both the lab and the sales floor at the same time and honestly found I could only grind @ 8 jobs a day while edging 15 or more. Those 8 jobs probably saved @ $180.00, certainly I would have made that on the sales for in add ons.

    You should annalyze what savings this system can offer and how important it is to your business that you provide same day service on multifocals.

    After all was said and done, I am a firm believer that your best opticians should be very skilled in the lab, but are also professional salespeople. The bottom line is that you can make more money concentrating on the sales floor than you can save in the lab.

    I hope this helps

    John

  4. #4
    Bad address email on file willsaake's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I appreciate the both of you for the information. I was really concerned about the lens designs I could use on this machine. At the office we use alot of Perceptas, Panamics, and Vips. Most of the opticians here would not be willing to change to a new lens design. They say they are comfortable with what they are selling now. I hadn't called the rep for Superoptical yet b/c I was afraid he would tell me the wrong things or possibly not tell me at all. On an average day I cut 15-18 jobs. I work for two MD's and one OD. We have two offices and we are really considering a surface lab. We are building a new state of art building that we hope to be able to do most of our own work and get pts their glasses faster. (We compete with Wal-Mart's one hour service for SV), but we don't have poly in stock. Do you guys like the lens designs (Kodak was one I saw) that Superoptical provides. Is it possible to block the lens yourself, say if we stocked Vips and tried to grind them using our own blocking system and not use their pre-blocked lenses? The other system we are considering is a Gerber lab but that looks to be a bit out of range possibly. Thanks again for the responses.

  5. #5
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    Blue Jumper

    Case your all wondering, this is my son, who is now one of the new members of the board. Go easy on him or i will sic Darris upon you.

  6. #6
    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    Will,

    Nope you can't start with a full thickness blank and try to grind it all the way in with a cylinder machine..you would be there for an hour not to mention all the pads you would blow through and running a perfect -6 curve on say a 375/5.25 tool..YIKES would it be a pain.. you would have to start with the highest grit pad you could find..cut the air pressure on the pins and run it , the more crazy the curves needed the greater the chance of the pins popping off the tool mid cycle then you can either break the pins, rip the lens up or all of the above!
    You will not EVER be able to stock a panamic (thats only for a Lic. Varilux lab) and I know that SOLA kinda frowns on accounts with strictly retail, depends on your rep.
    Not to bad mouth Gerber, but for your production you do not really need state of the art high end lab like the Premier....
    If you have lab experience then you can get some good quality used stuff it's all over the place..say a good table top generator (whisper2) a couple of 505's (cylinder machine) a 99 blocker and you are up and running with the basics (oh and a set of tools blocks etc, ect.)
    You do NOT need a one step wax blocker for what you are wanting to produce..you do not need a high end generator like an SGX...
    If you do not have a wide lab experience your best bet is to hire the lab guy BEFORE you start buying equipment... if he/she is worth thier salt they should be able to set you up for around $50's with good used equipment, probably another $15 or so in stock... check in(I think I saw it) in Vision Monday adverts it's a small ad and it list some equipment and the Pat and Mike(?) I know the "pat"..that's Pat McCoy..I have got tons of stuff from him over the years ...
    I would think though you would not want to get anything older than say 5 to 7 years in the generator..something along the lines of a 2113 or the table top stuff.. get you a couple of cylinder machines and blocker and you are off and away...
    State of the art stuff is nice, but with your volume you really do not need it..plus the up keep on the high end stuff is a LOT more then the more manual stuff....
    With your list of lens you prefer to sell (which is a lot of premium stuff) I would think I would pass on the F.G...and remember even if you DO install an inhouse lab you will still have to send out that Varilux stuff;)
    Last but not least you mentioned Kodak, the concise is nice (the new "low" fit lens) but pretty pricery compared to say the overlook or AO compact...
    I do like the FT28's from Kodak especially the high index (1.56)
    goes to a 9.75 BC and works great in wraps, and high plus stuff.
    The regular Kodak PAL is ok but it does not seem that much different then most of the others other then it's a little pricey..

    Hope some of this was helpful ..

    Jeff "grind'em when you get'em" Trail :p

  7. #7
    OptiWizard
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    The fast grind looks like a great system but has the flaw of only one supplier of the materials.

    Remember Innotech? Company was bought out, then closed. Supplies (resin) stopped being manufactured Now there are many proud owners of $20,000 anchors.

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder Jeff Trail's Avatar
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    Harry,

    You would actually come out a little ahead then the Inotech disaster, and yea I know a couple of OD's that got thumped on that one:) atleast with the F.G. you could end up with a computer and a cylinder machine .. just have to go out and buy the rest of the lab to go with the cylinder machine...

    Sometimes these guys with out much lab experience can get taken for a ride with one of these "new space age" systems.. I forget the others besides inotech but seems like there has been three or so that went belly up and left people swinging in the wind...

    Not to say F.G. is in any trouble and you would end up with some useful equipment if it did come to that...

    I wonder if you could go get your own cylinder machine and any ole cheapy computer and just get the software and pre-cast blocked lens? ... guess that might save you about half the price..

    Jeff "always leary of "things that are so easy to do anyone off the street can be producing premium lens with hardly any training" Trail

  9. #9
    Bad address email on file willsaake's Avatar
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    Smilie

    Thanks for the information Jeff. I don't know what my employer will do but I will certainly pass the information on to them. I work here only part time bevause I am in school. Personally i like the old equipment like we used at Visionworks and Lenscrafters but I dont think my office will want to get into that mainly because i wouldn't be here 40 hours a week to run the lab for them. There are many lab tech (surface and finish) here in Boone, NC. I think the reason they want to go to a surface lab is for the timeliness and ability to remake a lens if something goes wrong in the edger (rarely does that happen on our patternless edger). Oh well, i suppose they'll keep sending them to the lab for now. Thanks again to everybody who responded.

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