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Thread: Commission/incentives

  1. #1
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    Commission/incentives

    How many of you earn commisions or incentives on what you sell? What type of incentives do you have? Do you get paid by item i.e.(progressive, A/R etc.) or do you get a Percentage, or do you have a sliding scale? Your input would be appreciated.
    Last edited by jhorn; 05-08-2007 at 01:49 PM.

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    Anybody ever thought of putting commission insentives on doing a good job and satisfying customers instead of gross sales or gross profit?
    I thought not,
    Pity

    Chip

  3. #3
    Bad address email on file k12311997's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Anybody ever thought of putting commission insentives on doing a good job and satisfying customers instead of gross sales or gross profit?
    I thought not,
    Pity

    Chip
    When I was there,

    LensCrafters based their commision % on CSATS every quarter 100 patients from each store are surveyed and that translates to what commision level your store is at. yes you still get a commision for selling stuff people don't need in any bracket. but if your patients are satisfied you get more commision.

  4. #4
    On the Sunset Tour! Framebender's Avatar
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    We don't use commission . . .

    but we do use a bonus system. I always hated commission houses and felt that it led to problems among staff.

    We determined that our overhead including COG runs about 52K a month. If they hit more than that we take 2% of the gross and split it evenly among all of the full time employees. You have to have been with the company for 90 days to participate. Monthly totals are posted in the break room.

    So on 60K we would take $1200.00 and split it between the receptionist, the lab rat and the 3 dispensers. The bonus would be $240.00 per person before taxes.

    Good luck to you!!

    :cheers:
    Days where my gratitude exceed my expectations are very good days!

  5. #5
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    That's some mighty steep overhead!

  6. #6
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    We don't have commissions either, rather a year end bonus. We get a % of the net profit, however if the performance reivew is not up to par, then there are deductions.

  7. #7
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    We get a flat % of all of our sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Anybody ever thought of putting commission insentives on doing a good job and satisfying customers instead of gross sales or gross profit?
    I thought not,
    Pity

    Chip
    I've never been a proponent of commission on specific items as it usually translates to selling what you get commission on instead of what's good for the patient. Fortunately, where I now work, we do not have commission. Instead, if we have a good day, week, month etc. we get a bonus. At Christmas, my boss is very generous ( $ ). We are paid a very good wage and sell according to the needs of the patient. IMHO in the long run, everybody wins.

  9. #9
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    give them a few percentage points of the business. Then they are working harder for themselves, and will help encourage them to make relationships with the customers.

  10. #10
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    No commissions, no bonus. I don't want someone selling something just because they make five bucks on it. How about we just pay you well, give you benefits, and make you feel that you matter? Employees will bend over backwards for an employer whom they respect and who respects them in return.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Anybody ever thought of putting commission insentives on doing a good job and satisfying customers instead of gross sales or gross profit?
    I thought not,
    Pity

    Chip
    Au contaire! Whenever I hear a particularly nice compliment about one of my staff, they get a special attaboy incentive.
    DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
    "There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."

  12. #12
    OptiBoardaholic bt5050's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    When I was there,

    LensCrafters based their commision % on CSATS every quarter 100 patients from each store are surveyed and that translates to what commision level your store is at. .
    i was recently told - that they got rid of those mail in surveys - and now are only doing their secret shopping thing -

    that would drive me crazy - thinking that my pt is in doing a checklist on me -

    but i guess when u are that big - you need to measure progress somehow -

    b

  13. #13
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    We have done away with the surveys and are continuing the secret shops. As for commission, up selling for the sake of selling only works for so long. Retail associates do lose their commission if the sale is returned and I believe they are penalized for remakes related to the sale (poor material choice, poor frame choice, etc). They also go over with each associate any remake they have and use that as a learning tool

  14. #14
    OptiBoardaholic bt5050's Avatar
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    spiff

    from what i recall - @ LC - ay returns where charged back to the associate - and the spiff was taken away - ( as long as the return happened at the same store the glasses where purchased - if they go to another store - the associate got to pocket it- ) -
    and as for any remakes - they did not effect the associates pocket - like it should have - i would have thought that the sale person would loose everything - but they don't - if the job had to be remade for wrong seg ht - ect -
    in my place of work - any remakes - we would loose everything - since the company was loosing $ itself by having to remake it for the error - which i think is the right way to handle it -

    my personal exp - is commision can be a good motivator - however could ( and usually does ) cause issues amoung staff - such as who stole my sale - who had more sles for the day then another person - ect - .
    i also feel that if you pay your opticians well - and not do any commisions - the pt - gets better service - gives better asociate satifaction -
    i realize that it is an incentive for staff - for the company to prioritize what makes them $ - and profits - and that is very important - but i think a little extra - for making the month's #'s or doing an extra on a certain thing mike 2nd prs - is good - but to put a staff paycheck at risk - week to week - based on the people coming in the door - that is where i have seen things become cut throat -
    i have seen the shift - in pay - since SOME - count eyewear - as retail - rather then a medical device - so therefore retail sales = lower hourly pay - and working on commission - !

    HOW DO U GUYS handle pts - when they ask right out of the box - "DO U WORK ON COMMISION " ?
    i am always honest - and tell them the truth - but i have seem some lye ;like it is a bad thing - and they are doing something wrong - or trying to rip them off - if they are on commisions

    i am just glad our mom and pop shop - we are not in corp world -
    Last edited by bt5050; 06-30-2007 at 08:51 AM. Reason: spelling

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Anybody ever thought of putting commission insentives on doing a good job and satisfying customers instead of gross sales or gross profit?
    I thought not,
    Pity

    Chip
    In our office, it's a team effort, and when the sales are up, as well as the customer satisfaction, they know that we'll be having parties and going to Vegas and NYC for the shows.

    When things are down, we brainstorm and try to right the ship. If there's a problem employee, the others will let me know (if I don't see it) and we take care of that as well.

    We give out individual incentives weekly. We call them paychecks.

  16. #16
    Optical Curmudgeon EyeManFla's Avatar
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    In the 20 some years in worked in DC, none of the Guild Opticians I worked with did spifs, commissions or whatever..........

    Then I moved to Florida!

    To me, a commission is nothing more than some ODs or MDs way of keeping staff compensation low. But then again, since they don't see us as "Professionals" why should they pay us as such.

    I don't do commissions at my office. My people are good at what they do and they get paid well for it. Sure, we do an end of year bonus, but in the tradition of real Christmas bonus....its given in appreciation, not because you had the highest comp!
    "Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde"

  17. #17
    Bad address email on file stephanie's Avatar
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    Wow you mean there are actually some good places to work?? I was beginning to think this was something that didn't exist. Well once again I am working for a large chain as they seem to be the only in my area who pay decent. I had to leave my last job since I just got divorced and needed the money unfortunately. They nail us for everything which means even if patient changes their mind and gets a refund we are charged. If we enter something in wrong and the lab corrects it we get charged(yea that one baffled me)They also send out cards to customers which also contain information about how the doc was as well as how long they waited...now bear in mind they may have loved me to death and had an issue with the doc or the person who dispensed them etc...and only wanted corporate to be aware of that but since I was the one waiting on them that bad mark actually gets charged to me. Sweet. Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but I am a licensed profession, I am an adult, do I really need to be babysat??? or have management regularly "rehearse" with me how to speak to people???

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
    Wow you mean there are actually some good places to work?? I was beginning to think this was something that didn't exist. Well once again I am working for a large chain as they seem to be the only in my area who pay decent. I had to leave my last job since I just got divorced and needed the money unfortunately. They nail us for everything which means even if patient changes their mind and gets a refund we are charged. If we enter something in wrong and the lab corrects it we get charged(yea that one baffled me)They also send out cards to customers which also contain information about how the doc was as well as how long they waited...now bear in mind they may have loved me to death and had an issue with the doc or the person who dispensed them etc...and only wanted corporate to be aware of that but since I was the one waiting on them that bad mark actually gets charged to me. Sweet. Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but I am a licensed profession, I am an adult, do I really need to be babysat??? or have management regularly "rehearse" with me how to speak to people???

    Why in the heck would anyone work for an employer like this? I consider myself very fortunate that in thirty years I have never had to deal with to much garbage. I worked for corporates to learn the trade early on but in the last 20 years have only worked for mom and pop stores or independents. I may not have made as much money but I certainly kept my sanity. Life is too short.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
    Wow you mean there are actually some good places to work?? I was beginning to think this was something that didn't exist. Well once again I am working for a large chain as they seem to be the only in my area who pay decent. I had to leave my last job since I just got divorced and needed the money unfortunately. They nail us for everything which means even if patient changes their mind and gets a refund we are charged. If we enter something in wrong and the lab corrects it we get charged(yea that one baffled me)They also send out cards to customers which also contain information about how the doc was as well as how long they waited...now bear in mind they may have loved me to death and had an issue with the doc or the person who dispensed them etc...and only wanted corporate to be aware of that but since I was the one waiting on them that bad mark actually gets charged to me. Sweet. Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but I am a licensed profession, I am an adult, do I really need to be babysat??? or have management regularly "rehearse" with me how to speak to people???

    :o

  20. #20
    Rising Star Optowoman's Avatar
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    I have worked for commish and non-commish. Seems like every time I talk to a Doc they want to know which is better. Personally I prefer a non-commish. Having seen both sides of the coin I can truly say when I was on commision I kicked a$$ but I didn't sleep well at night. You say to yourself I will only sell what the pt. needs and wants, I have standards......then the electric bill or whatever comes in. I make a nice wage, sell and present to the pt. all options (at least try) and whatever we end up with, I never feel like I oversold. Our best intentions are overcome by human nature. Unless I am just an animal, which I have been acused of being.

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    Optoman:

    Unfortuantely the same motivation also effects the Doc also. Back in the days when doc's owned or got kick backs from lab/manufacturer dispenaries,I would see Rx's for .12 cylinder in welding goggles, etc. When the government got them out of it you didn't see such nonsence. Now that almost all docs have a piece of the dispensing action, you see more +.50 -.50 x ? Rx's, especially on government funded glasses for small chidren (medicare) where the patient can't complain. Obviously the patient can't see any improvement in vision and won't actually wear these but the Rx's are written in astounding amounts.

    I see even the most idealistic young doctors with all sorts of ideas that dispensing will never effect thier Rx'ing, soon writing such prescriptions very soon after opening that dispensary that "didn't cost me much money." Soon have their idealism fade. But I haven't ever heard one complain about it effecting his sleep.

    Chip

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    Rising Star Optowoman's Avatar
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    Chip, I agree 100%. My last job was working for a small group of MDs who put in a full service lab as a "convenience" to their surgical pts. Once they saw what a money machine it was, no amount of selling was ever enough. I truly liked working there and enjoyed the pts. However when the edict came down you will sell this much or else ......I didn't wait for or else. Been there, done that and with any luck won't have to go back in to that environment.:cheers: :cheers:

  23. #23
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    I have an idea, but I think it's controversial. I'd love to hear opinions.

    Opticans are professionals, right? But, you are not necessarily put in positions to practice as a professional. I think I have (one) solution.

    The theoretical framework is this:

    If an optician works for a corporation, then they have to be employed for the simple reason that all working for a corporation are employees, by definition. Therefore, I'm going to leave that out of the discussion.

    If an optician is working for another professional, why not have the arrangement of "practice sharing"? (This is assuming the concept of "practicing opticianry" is valid.)

    Practice sharing is a situation where the professionals are all independent and work for themselves, have their own schedules, etc. There will be "the house" plus the individual professionals. "The house" is made up of the equity partners or sole proprietor; they own the major business equipment, inventory, and the other means of production.

    The professionals practice their trade within the milieu of the optical: use the business equipment, use the overhead, use the square footage, use the inventory, etc. to do a core competence: provide optical services.

    (Optical services, of course, include frame fashion and technical consultation, lens design and fitting, quality control, dispensing and patient education, various frame adjustment and repair services, etc. But note: essentially all service, no literal material sales, because the independent professional does not own the materials at any time.)

    The fee structure would be set up such that every (simplified global) product price included a professional component, and a retailing component. Basically, acquisition cost + margin for house + professional fee for professional.

    The professional takes all professional fees at the end of the day. The house takes it's cut for the cost associated with maintaining the fixed and variable expenses of doing business, but not profit.*

    Here's the more complicated, but necessary part: the professional would have to pay their fair share of the use of the facilities, inventory, etc. And this would have to be a fixed, regular expense. Why? Because the house deserves profit, or why would it exist? Because, also, how else can an independent professional ply his trade without a support system and patient base? If such a professional wanted to go it alone, they'd have opened their own location, which ain't a small deal.

    I think there is precedent for this:
    1.) Don't a lot of salons work this way?
    2.) Or, maybe more germane, don't commercial ODs pay overhead for access to a built-in patient base and equipment and staff? (Of course, they never, ever, ever, pay fair market value, which is a whole other story.)

    No spiffs needed...You are your own boss.

    What sez you?


    *Yes, technically, if the situation arose where the cost of the fixed expenses were already met for the month, the house's cut of every incremental sale would result in profit-taking.
    Last edited by drk; 05-12-2007 at 09:50 PM.

  24. #24
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    Kinda like managed care?

    Here's the more complicated, but necessary part: the professional would have to pay their fair share of the use of the facilities, inventory, etc. And this would have to be a fixed, regular expense. Why? Because the house deserves profit, or why would it exist? Because, also, how else can an independent professional ply his trade without a support system and patient base? If such a professional wanted to go it alone, they'd have opened their own location, which ain't a small deal.
    First time quoting. I hope it turns out okay. Probably should have tested that in Q&A . . .

    The insurance company is "the house" the practice or dispensary owner is the "independant professional" in my analogy.

    In your senario does "the house" set prices, establish best practices, determine which labs will be used, etc.? Something tells me this idea will not go over well here.

    It was getting a little quiet around here without Mr. Mitchell. Glad to see someone else brave enough to stir the cauldron!

  25. #25
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Ha!! Don't lump me in with him. I already have one strike based on my degree.

    Yeah, I think of third party payors as a very expensive outside marketing companies, which really they are.

    Yes, for sanity, I would think the house would have the majority say on such things. Good points, though. That could be a fatal flaw in the plan...

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