When is enough, enough?

[juan_e]

I have literally grown up in the opticianry trade, and had my hand in nearly every aspect of it from lab tech & manager, lab equiptment tech, fitting/dispensing, software programming, to hardware and network setup w\equiptment integration. Of late, I'm beginning to think very few people care about the trade, and even fewer know anything about it. It has simply become a dollar sign on the ledger of multinational conglomerates and insurance companies. I've watched lifelong Lab people making a good living being squeezed out for know-nothing, low paid, trained monkeys, who know little about what they are producing, and could care less if what they do is correct. Why? Because labor is too expensive while they try to eek pennies from a job due to new Vision Program contracts? Formerly reliable laboratories, now spit it out and let you reject it. Frame manufacturers keep piling up more and more unimportant same-old-stuff "Designer Lines" that you've just GOT to have. Lens manufacturers introducing "New" lenses and coatings and treatments that are neither "Revolutionary" nor "Exciting." but do cost more. More and more ophthalmologists are trying to grab a piece of an ever-increasingly diluted piece of the retail pie. Fewer and fewer "Real" opticians, more and more Sales Associates. Madison Avenue marketing instilling perception of cheap quality and instant gratification from Wall Street funded conglomerated opticals to a Mall/McDonald's mentality customer, whose only real concern is "do I get a discount?", and "does my insurance pay for this?".
In a day and age of more sophisticated lens designs, materials, equiptment, etc. the populace and the "professionals" are increasingly less-sophisticated and more ham fisted.
I realize that this is a blanket statement, and there are quite a few pockets of similar concern, and that there really are some good innovations happening; however, I am beginning to feel like Don Quiote fighting a lost battle. I am finding myself having to look deeper within for reasons why I should care any longer. Is this what happens to a person after over 20 years in the business, am I going through mid-life crisis early? Or are my perceptions in fact "real" reality. I keep getting feedback from all around that "we don't care, why should you?!" It's having an affect on me, and I don't like it. Is it time to say enough is enough, and me caring doesn't make a difference because no one cares?
Thanks for listening to this bleeding of the heart, and purging of the soul.
Maybe I just need a nice long vacation!

[John R]

I've watched lifelong Lab people making a good living being squeezed out for know-nothing, low paid, trained monkeys, who know little about what they are producing.

or care i would add to.
How very true this statement is. I feel that in some ways the computer has a lot to answer to for this, As when i started 25 years ago as a lab rat all the laying off of job tickets was done by hand and it took time and experence to learn how to get it right. Now it takes 5 mins to show someone how to enter the information into a program and out pops the job ticket if they arnt interested in optics then they dont want to know the ins and out of how it works things out Hence the i dont care attitude.This also passes it way down the production chain generating a lens is now punch a few buttons and out comes the lens, not the old set it up work it out and try. Sure in some ways it is better and more accurate but new people coming into the trade dont know how to do things by hand using charts so if the computer says no then no it is, not well it could be done but you would only get this or this would be better in this type of lens.
God i sound like a luddiate. and i luv my puter.

------------------
Every day a grind
Every week a bind
www.iooi.co.uk

[This message has been edited by john r (edited 06-13-2000).]

[Cindy]

YOU SAID IT!!!!! I've been the office manager for my dad and brother for 21 years (independent OD's). I don't claim to know too much about the lab end of it all, just enought to make me dangerous, plus the way things change all the time I really don;t want to keep up with it all - call me lazy it's OK. I have been happy with the business management end of it all until lately. Maybe it's the 20 year itch. I've got this nice motel scoped out on Cocoa Beach I'm ready to go manage as soon as my daughter graduates high school!!! I think that is what is burning me out. My dad has done this for 52 years and still going (he was town politician for 30 years so I guess he's got what it takes). People are such a trip!!!! "I never could wear these" (two years later and wanting a refund. UGH!!! So Juan I don't think you're the only one. Hang in there if you want or maybe think about another profession - likes it's that easy!!! GOOD LUCK

[Darris Chambless]

Hello Gentlemen,

I must start by saying that your concerns, although legitimate, are not as founded on reality as you might think. Quite the contrary. For years we as the professionals have predetermined what would and would not work for our patients even without ever giving it a try or offering it to see the response.

Labs have been cranking out new products in lenses and coating for years only to have the optical professionals never even give them a chance. Many of these products have more than just cosmetic benefits to the patient that wears them. Think about the patients that come to you for a product and you predetermine their "needs" and sell them according to your biased. Then this same patient goes to a doc-in-the-box that sells them a thin lite lens with AR coating and polished edges (needed or not) and thinks the doc-in-the-box has better products and a more knowledgeable staff. After all, they knew about and offered products that had never been offered to them before. The labs love this kind of thing and why shouldn't they? These products that they spent millions on are now getting out to the public that they were designed for instead of being stopped short by the eye care professionals of the world.

When you wonder why corporate offices will hire the "Neowabby-maxi-zume-dweebees" to take care of "patients" eyewear, it's because they don't know enough to talk a patient out of a sale. What I mean is many eye care professionals know enough about optics and the bare necessities thereof to feel almost "dirty" if they offer the patient something as an up-sell. My question is this; why prejudge? Why do you as the professional know more about what the patients wants than the patient does? Offer these things to the patient and let them decide. I have never twisted a patients arm and forced them to buy anything, but I will make sure that they know everything that is available to them as well as what the uses are. Then the patient can decide on what they want or need.

The industry has gone "retail" because it always has been, but too many people were getting too big for their britches and became control freaks instead of money conscious. To clarify, it's a lot like a physician that walks in and does an exam on you without a word, writes out a script and says "Take this three times a day". If you ask why they say "I'm the professional here and you will take it because I said so." Same diff. They have decided what was best for you and never explained or offered any alternatives. Had there been other options available you may have opted for one of those, but if you weren't aware it existed then how would you know? You would take it for face value and go on.

People need choices. If you feel dirty by offering something to the patient that may make there glasses wearing experience a little easier or more comfortable, then you will short change your patients every time. These are their decisions to make as are those decisions to go buy a pair of super-cheapy Wal Mart glasses, but so be it. Let them make the decisions and profits will go up as a result. Profit is not a dirty word. High-end is not a dirty word (unless of course you are talking about Porn :-) Not to mention that better products come with a higher price. Don't you want your patients to have the best?

I own a high-end boutique and the products we sell are expensive. The benefits to us are higher profit margins and happier patients, the benefits to the patients are higher quality products that need no tending to after the initial dispense, the newest innovations in lenses and coatings and the newest designs and materials in frames making them more comfortable and easier to wear. What could be better for both involved? ;-)

I'm not dogging you, but I am trying to give you a different perspective on the matter. I don't consider it to be "money hungry" if I want to survive and be comfortable at the same time. I like to make money and I have no problem saying it. I would also lay a wager on the table that my patients are some of the best cared for in the optical industry and would be willing to tell you the same. Not because I have a lot of optical math committed to memory, but because I let them decide what they want and give them the information necessary to make an informed purchase.

Yes, optical professionals need to be knowledgeable, there's no doubt about that, but some have enough knowledge to be anti-productive to themselves, their employers and the patients. You have to sell it before you can do anything with it ;-)

Just some thoughts you might want to mull over.

Darris "It's a new world out there, but not as bad as some would have you believe" Chambless

[Carol D]

I agree with Darris. There is a lot of ****py work being done out there by a lot of "I don't give a flip" Macticians. However, just cruise around the Optiboard for a while and you will find plenty of Opticians out there who still put there heart and soul into the business. I have been doing this for 16 years, and sure, there are days when I wonder if anybody besides me really gives a flip. I just get a good night's sleep and slip my rose colored glasses back on in the morning. And Darris is right about not being ashamed of offering everything and charging a premium. Making a good living and good patient care do not have to be mutually exclusive concepts in our industry.
Hang in there Juan.


C. Carol Dupaquier

[Jackie L]

19 years for me and yes, there are times when it seems like the customer just wants to discuss price and not quality. Times when we question the quality of new technology and the price it carries. I agree with Darris in that educating our customers (clients) and actually trying the products ourselves is THE way to be the best Opticians out there.

Jackie O

[BobV]

It has been my experience that most people want information about their specs. Have I talked people out of glasses? Yes, and for good reasons. For the most part, if a customer comes in with a +/-0.25 sph, should I jump on the bandwagon and sell a Calvin Klein, high index with a top dollar a/r coat and roll and polish? Hell NO!!! My morals are too high and so are my standards. Let Wallyworld and their ilk do the selling to these patients. We don't need the money that bad and I DO tell them that.

As for computers, it was bound to happen that the programs make less work, that people right off the street could do almost any job in a lab. I still want to see a computer that can hand-edge like a good lab rat.

Bob V.

[stephanie]

I understand where everyone is coming from. It is amazing to me how many people come to us(meaning WM) and have absolutely no confidence in us at all. Granted, while we don't all operate as well as my particular store, I personally would never go somewhere that I felt did not know how to do the job. All they are interested in is CHEAP, and CHEAPER!! And it is also fascinating how they think they are at a yard sale trying to haggle on prices! Man if I had a nickel for everytime I heard" can't you do any better than that we are on a fixed income", I would be on my laptop on the beach of Hawaii instead of in my house in TN wishing! :)I am on a fixed income also if you really want to think about it! People never cease to amaze me. Just when you think you have had the worst of them, in comes another to top them :) I guess that is the price you pay for working with the public. I also would guess that is why they keep me in the lab most of the time :)
Steph"still a lab rat" D

[mikeh]

Look on the bright side folks. Imagine what our position would be if everyone out there was caring, knowledgeable, and extremely professional! Remember, we live on a Bell curve.

The fact of the matter is that things change and you have to change with them. As the saying goes "When you're through changing, you're through."

[Framebender]

Juan,

I hope you stay with us & continue to care! You're really not alone out there. There are alot of good Opticians out there putting out some really fine work!

At 50 years old I can't think of anything I'd rather be doing & I'm married to a 25 year Optician. Being 2nd generation I don't think that the kids have the same feel for optics that we do. They're never going to know what its like to sit down with a pair of calipers, pencil & paper to layout for the generator. The trick Earl showed me for covering a 65mm ED with a 62mm blank isn't relevant anymore except to trim an occasional duck!

These kids are sharp in their own right though. I think fashion & technology are their edge. With managed care, lasik, e-tailing & everything else they're going to have to be more cost effective to survive.

Separating the wheat from the chafe will be in the product! And isn't that how we've always judged each other? I remember my Dad saying that he didn't like Frank, but he would admit that he made a good pair of glasses at a fair price.

Somebody suggested you cruise this board. I agree. There are some of our best and brightest here. There's a lady working a WalMart in Tenn! She cares, she works hard, she's smart. My heart goes out to her because I know what she's not getting paid & she is so cheerful. There's another lady working a Pearle in Penn. Same deal!

This is just another opinion, but I think these kids are going to do just fine! I hope you're all having fun & making money!

Frame"Not on Bourbon St"Bender

[Susan Henault]

Gosh - I almost got depressed reading your original posting Juan. I'm in for 14 years and want to say that I really believe that folks who don't fall in love with optics or give a hoot about the business, eventually all come out in the wash!

Think back to when you were new. I read a posting from a gal in PA who is just getting started and already she is buying herself books and studying for her ABO. That hits me in the heart because it was in Lancaster, PA that I got my start in the business. I too bought books and taught myself. I used to drive my manager crazy asking questions about the discrepancies I saw in how we actually did things versus what I learned in my studies.

We have to be very careful when we talk about the newbee's who were waiting tables last week and are styling frames or running jobs this next week. That is EXACTLY how I got my start. Someone gave me a chance and guess what?? I fell in love! This business is often a love it or hate it proposition, and unfortunately many factors could leave us lukewarm if we let them.

The one thing that burns me the most is how the enormous retail chains (WM-PLC-Costco) spend fortunes lobbying to block (like they did successfully in CO) or overturn state optician licensure laws. This hurts everyone from one end of the business to the other. We need TRAINED PROFESSIONALS - regardless of whether they care in their heart (like we do). This is the only way we can preserve the future of quality eyecare.

The "retail" aspect of our industry is not bad in and of itself. In fact I agree wholeheartedly with the earlier comments regarding offering top of the line frame and lens products to every patient. Not only because it keeps us financially healthy as a business, but because it really is the best thing for the consumer!

Case in point: How much would the glasses that YOU are wearing right now sell for if you paid full retail value for them? The pair I am wearing right now cost $250 - wholesale -- What's that, $500+ retail? I wear it and I'd sell it (if I still dispensed).

FINALLY -- the answer to your most important question is "YES!" It really sounds like you need a vacation. Make it a long one and think of me while you are gone:-) Thanks for opening a terrific dialog & "keep coming back"

[Rich R]

I also started way back in 1968 grinding lenses and later dispensing, for the last 6 years I've worked in a fast paced retail environment where the most important people are the sales staff and the least important the more qualified Opticians, or so it seems to me. I've also wondered many times for how much longer I really want to keep doing this, I guess as long as it pays the bills. Personally most of the time I still get satisfaction knowing I'm helping people see better, knowing they got what they needed most, not what cost the most.
Rich R.

[Barry Santini]

Your feelings are a combination of things:
1. As you said (or replies have said), profits are now more important than real ethics for most businesses.
2. HMOs have made not only price a big issue in eyewear, but have also help decrease the quality of the refractions people get (which has always been poor to begin with)
3. America's increasing cultural fascination with "low price uber alles". Obviously, if low $$ is the main goal, then anything connected with quality on a custom product must go down.
4. The general level of non-thinking that goes on in this country, an outgrowth of TV/schools/Internet/video games/fascination with pop culture.
5. Retail "burnout" begins at 20 or so years, just like an athlete's career cannot go on forever past their sport's "prime".

There are other reasons, but I agree that thinking optical people are very much on the wane. Certainly we must check our biases so that we do not become part of the problem.

I think the man who said "the customer is always right" was interested only in profits, and not the TRUTH.

My 2 cents worth

Barry Santini,
ABOM

[Jeff Trail]

Well guys I guess I'm one of those "odd balls" and see from several points of view.. as a "retail owner" I see what it's like trying to deal with all the different types of customers as well as staff.. as a wholesale owner I see what perspective the opticians see and the OD's and MD's points of view.. and last but not least as a consultant I have to see it from all points of view :-)
Now I see it as a big pot and all the parts are working together, I have seen over the years two things happening and the "shift" from optician just placing the order and the lab filling it to the lab had to stay up with all this influx of products.
I remember when you had just CR39,high index,glass and that new stuff poly.. now all of a sudden you have to have a degree to just stay up with all the things out there.. which designs are available in what material and what xtra's?..now you have a choice of about 5 or 6 indexes to deal with and depending on what brand you have to be able to know whats what..
I can see Juan's point of view, same as those "one hour chains".. you get limited in what product you use so you do not really need to know what's all there and what benifits are gained by going with this design instead of another..
I see Darrius point of veiw as well, but the thing that bothers me is I see the majority of our industry "dumbing" down.. you see opticians limiting their sells only based on what a "chain" wants them to sell so even when they move into a private sector they still keep that narrow base of choices..
Also the lens companies seem to constantly bombing us with new stuff constantly..and now the mode is lets get the information to the consumer and by-pass the opticians and labs and get the consumer asking for our product.. the bad thing is that the optician doesn't have time to stay up with it all (or atleast the majority of them) and then we (Labs) get these orders and then have to explain that "no that design is NOT available in that material" etc. etc. ... or as of late they push the product and then you have tons of production problems and back order problems and we (the labs) somehow get blamed or come off as the guys not getting the work done...
I try to keep in stock the lens the majority of my accounts use but their is no way in hell I'm going to be able to keep it all instock and still stay in business..We labs are the ones getting the squeeze, take just using Silor lens in PAL's only.. I have to stock Adapt's, SNL, Naturals..now in the Adapt.'s you have CR39,Transitions III's,xtra's..same for the Naturals...then throw in the Ormex of each or the Thin&Lite.. then toss in a list of curves and adds that wew try to maintain to cover the RX's... in that list alone I carry stock that runs over the $10,000 range..now add Sola,Younger,Rodenstock,AO,Zeiss,Optima,Signet Armorlite,Hoya on and on.. then you have them popping out new designs all the time that become the "flavor" of the day and we have to do it all over again as well as keep the other stuff..So now we have the lens guys cranking out all this advertising and then the opticians being "forced" to supply them because thats what the customer "wants".. but you go to all the trouble of selling it and then it's not avaiable in Transition III.. or Poly and not CR39 etc. etc...
I think the best bet is to actually understand what you are selling..what it actually does..Darrius pointed out some people want this "product" not matter what.. and people sell it like cookie cutters (he mentioned WalMart).. BUT if you understand the product it is always easy to up grade some one and with and not feel like you are "taking advantage" to just make more money if the product is going to MEET the expectations of the consumer more..right? You guys might be surprised by the number of people I deal with that do not really understand the difference's in designs and what a "hard" design means or a "soft" design or even the simple layout of the focal points in a PAL :-)
I also see where a lab SHOULD know its product and understand optics as well and not just "push a button".. sure thats great for the cookie cutter plan, but what about the ones that don't fit the "mold"?
I'm small (as labs go) but I take pride in my work.. I'm not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either..BUT I do know optics, and all my staff knows optics.. of course that simple stuff is same with us.. a no brainer.. but what about those new designs..or materials.. you ask the "maker" of course it's the best.. I think as a lab I try to weed out the lens and give an opinion on it..I try out each lens as well.. and probably have an advantage over the majority of opticians by being able to do this..and I see when speaking to alot of opticians that they really can't do this because they can't afford to do it, it's hard to experiment with a "customer" ..
I figure labs like mine are going to the way side and we'll get knocked down by the big labs but thats so called "progress"...
What I find most disturbing from all of these things are the lens makers are starting to be the ones to drive customer choices through brand advertising.. and cutting out the opticians as being there as the guide to steer the consumer to the best possible choice.
I can see it now .. did you notice that ALL or the vast majority of new designs are coming out in poly first?..You ever wonder why? :-)..then steps down to a mid or high index and then possibly available in CR39 down the road?.....Could it be because they make more money?..and optics be damned?..:-)
Just one humble opinion...I think people who understand optics are in the minority not the majority now adays...

Jeff "A dying breed..optician/lab rat" Trail

[karen]

Darris-you make we want to move to Texas and go to work for you!!!

[mikeh]

We've beaten this whole issue to death several times on this board but I guess the need for self-justification is overwhelming.

What is so difficult to understand? The reason that chains can perform and deliver the way they do is because consumers accept it. I'm sorry if some people on this board don't like that but that's the way it is - right or wrong.

There are loads of people who go to cheap barbers, buy furnishings and apparrel at flea markets, and don't drive a Mercedes. If you fulfill a consumers expectations and meet their needs, they will give you their business.

If consumers weren't at least mildly satisfied, the "villians" would shrivel and die - but they don't seem to be doing that.

[Darris Chambless]

Originally posted by BobV:
It has been my experience that most people want information about their specs. Have I talked people out of glasses? Yes, and for good reasons. For the most part, if a customer comes in with a +/-0.25 sph, should I jump on the bandwagon and sell a Calvin Klein, high index with a top dollar a/r coat and roll and polish? Hell NO!!! My morals are too high and so are my standards. Let Wallyworld and their ilk do the selling to these patients. We don't need the money that bad and I DO tell them that.

As for computers, it was bound to happen that the programs make less work, that people right off the street could do almost any job in a lab. I still want to see a computer that can hand-edge like a good lab rat.

Bob V.

Hello Sir Bob,

Since I know a little about your optical background I can understand where you are coming from. In my posting I was not suggesting that you up sell a patient on things such as high index in a +/-.25 that would be silly. But to not offer them a Calvin Klein frame, high dollar AR coating or tell them about the impact resistance of poly would be short changing them. What if it was something they wanted or felt they could use? What if the patient felt like treating themself to something special that day? They could either get something extra from you that could give them some benefit or they could go over to a local shoe store or audio/video store and buy something useless or that they already have but wanted another of just because. Either way they may elect to spend that money in a frivalous manner with or without you.

The flip side to that scenario would go more like this: A patient walks in with a -2.00 sphere OU in SV. The patient is a female and by her appearance you can tell that she's at least a little fashion conscious. Do you show her the same plain brown wrapper products that everyone else gets or do you take her over to the Byblos, Giorgio Armani or Takeo Kikuchi?

When a person walks into your shop two things hold true 1) They are there to buy something 2) They don't know what they want or need. I like to ask the patient if they are looking for something in particular and go from there. If they are not sure then I ask them questions about what they do, what their hobbies are and what they will be doing while wearing the glasses. Once I've got this established I will make some suggestions (with legitimate reasons for my suggestions), let them know all that is available in lenses and coatings (giving full explanations on all) and let them decide what is best for them.

If the patient is looking for sunglasses in the same -2.00 script why not let them know that there is a lighter weight material for the lenses available to them? Why not tell them it will be thinner than conventional plastic and is available in polarized? Why not tell them of the impact resistant benefits of poly? A -2.00 script does not warrant all these things but what if they would want it regardless? If you like to educate your patients educate them fully and leave the decision making to them.

Ever since I left the doctors offices and went out on my own I can experience what it's like to offer things to people that were never allowed or told they were useless. You might be amazed at how hungry people are for individuallity including eye wear. I hear people say things like "No one has ever offered that to me." or "Is this new?" or "How come no one else ever mentioned this before?" all the time. It's things as simple as 1.0 center poly lenses, high index, mid index, AR Coating, Polarized, Titanium, SST, mirror coatings of all colors and on and on. No other office ever mentioned it to them until now and boy-o-boy are they ever hungry for it :-) When they get the glasses they love them and they are the best pair of glasses they ever had.

By simply offering these things to people I have learned so much about what these materials and designs can do for the patient. Many of the things I use to think were for cosmetic purposes only I've learned otherwise from the feed back I get from the patients that wear it. Case in point, a Titanium frame with the saddle bridge. I brought one in and sold it to a patient thinking it was more novelty than anything else only to find out that the patient loved it. I ordered in more and can't keep enough in stock and even wear one myself. From the feed back I get from the patients that wear them and my own personal experience I can say that there is not a more comfortable fit, bar none ( in my and many others humble opinion :-) One last point to make is that these frames don't come cheap. The brands we carry retail at about $300.00 but people buy them and love them not to mention I haven't had one come back with any problems

My main point is why not give some of these things a try? You might be surprised and your patients might think that you are even greater than they already think you are ;-)

Take care big guy,

Darris C.

[karen]

I have to say that it is threads like this that keep me coming back to the board...I love to hear such diverse points of view (and stated in a friendly manner, I might add :)) As someone who dispensed for 12 years and is now the consultant to the opticians from the lab I can see where all of you are coming from. If I were go back to dipsensing now, after learning so much more about product I am pretty sure I could outsell most everybody I would work with. Not because I like to sell so much as because I could truly educate the patient about their choices. When I know the how and why of how a lens works, when I know that it will do the best job for the patient then it is not a matter of selling up, it is a matter of providing the optimal product...which coincidentally in quite a few cases turns out to be an upsell. One of the largest frustrations of my job today is calling on opticians who know all about optics but are so set in their ways with the few products they dispense that they won't open their mind to some of the new stuff. It is actually easier sometimes to convince one of those fresh out of "school" former shoe selling opticans to try something new!! They don't have that "brand" affiliation. While it is true that some of the new stuff today is just copies of someone else's new stuff there are new products out there that are amazing! That push the envelope and improve on design or adhere better or change faster or get darker. I think that Darris and Jeff need to go into business together so I can come to work for them! What do ya think fellas???

[BobV]

Hello Supreme Leader!!!

It was not my intention to say I would block a sale...I have sold many a pair of good frames because the customer wanted them.

I think what I was trying to say was that I sometimes buck the doctors who are trying to make up from a lack of medicare re-imbursments.

The sales at our office are great. I sell polarized progressives by the buttload. Our
lab just got permission from Essilor to sell Varilux products. Since I wear them, I sell them. Multiple pairs, src, uv, tint, etc.

I had a customer today who asked me how much a pair of sv reader lenses would cost...I told him the standard $75.00 and he said
"that's too damn much." I don't argue with prices so I told him he had his options-stay or leave. He left. Did I do him a dis-service? I don't think so. He already had a problem with Walmart lenses(sorry Stephanie : ) So to me He's shopping for the lowest price he can get. We don't compromise. Let him go to America's Best where they'll charge him $35.00 extra for bringing in an outside Rx.

By the way, since the board has changed, do we still have our original titles?

Sorry for the length to get my point out.

Bob V.

[Blinkr]

I have been an Optician for 29 years & have my on shop. When I started the Optician was a professional, an expert in eyewear fitting, a lens specialist, frame repair mechanic, etc. Somewhere in there would be a touch of retail salesmanship. Now that "touch" is in everything EXCEPT salesmanship. The priority now in an Optician is "salesmanship" & the others are commendable as long as the help make the sale.

Well we have pushed craftsmanship & professionalism out the door. Heck, I remember when someone would come in the door with a metal frame about 3 or 4 years old & in good shape & we would recommend that he use his own frame. Now (if you work for one of the chains or a superstore don't even think of suggesting this. You would be fired so quick it would make your head spin. The emphasis is on how much can you get out of this customer. "In the old days" some of the Opticians would call their customers "patients" or "clients". Now all these customers are $ to all of those big companies--and even some smaller operations.

I would agree that these situations aren't everywhere--but I wouldn't hesitate to think that a very large majority of the eyewear customers out there are just $. Of course it is very easy to put the blame on the customer with this "fast-food" mentality & this is true also. But it is REALLY frustrating to us old-timers that aren't salesmen but craftsman. I can sell glasses all day as long as I don't have use a "sales pitch" to make a sale. If a patient comes to me with an Rx then he is there to purchase some glasses. So I will help him choose a frame & guide him thru determining his lens necessity, & fit him up. That's it! No slick deals, discounts, 2 for 1 offers, etc. Just plain old fitting & dispensing. I go home dog-tired from all of the "dealings" & sales I have to do day-in & day-out.

It's just not enjoyable anymore. I mean it is if "selling" glasses is your thing. But for us old professional eyewear craftsmen this isn't the reason we got into this business to begin with.

[Clive Noble]

What a great set of postings we've had on this topic, I don't intend adding my 3 cents worth, it would sound like a combination of everything that's already been said, but I do think that we have within our group, the cream of Optics in many spheres.

Just think, how incredible it would be to all get together and open the largest, best in the world centre for everything good for the patient in optics, then we could all talk to each other all day long and dispense with this board!!!

To coin a phrase, Carry on having fun and making lots of happy patients
(apologies to Framebender)

Clive

[Texas Ranger]

Hello y'all, I suppose some of you are in N'awlins about now, at least I hope you are! I am attending the Essilor Presbyopia Forum in Faro,Portugal. All of the seminars just ended and we'll all go homeward tomorrow; it has been a marvelous experience, the seminars have been some of the best ever; including one on binocular refracting presented personally by Irving Borish, what a remarkable gentleman! another class was a presentation by a norwegion dr. about a six year study on ergonomic relationships relative to vdu users; veeery interesting! look, you are all members of a fine profession, and each of us is at some stage of personal and professional growth; assume for a moment that all there is to know can never be learned; but you can pursue it, and apply it to the benefit of mankind; surely there are astute businessmen that use anything and everything in a quest for money and power, many times at the expense of the optician and the client/patient. When I began in '65, "sell" was the worst dirty word heard in an optician's office. But you learn that we are always presenting our case to others to get what we want, whethere at work or with our families or other social situations. I have learned that we have choices in what and how we present products and services, and how we price things, I actually do not care what a client acquires from our shop, so long as it fulfills their desire to see better, look better and have their visual lifestyle needs met. to that end, we present a wide variety of frame and lens selections, we point out features and benefits, and point out things that a pt may have objection to, including price; which is none of my business what combination of theses things they choose; we have excellant knowledge of the outcome of the combinations of products, and can be supportive, or not, of their choice; but in the end, it's their decision, then we respect that choice; that is win-win, we're all happy, sincerely honest, have a very happy client and a profitable shop; so, we don't believe in spiffs, commissions, deceptive promotions, or dispensing shoddy work; you work for who you choose to work with, so, if you're really unhappy, seek work elsewhere, and take a few days off between job changes; Al:

[Jeff Trail]

Originally posted by karen:
I think that Darris and Jeff need to go into business together so I can come to work for them! What do ya think fellas???

I don't know if that would work because Darris and Chad could have a tag team on me when we got into "debates" over optics!! :)
I have a brother that lives in Dallas so maybe next time I visit him I'll have to drop by and have a talk with Chad and Darris about opening a "super store/lab" that all of us could work at..oh about 50,000 sq. ft. of optical heaven where everything is done the way it should be done..."you fit a PAL without taking a mono-PD?...time out for you!!"...."ok, who was the weinie that put this +6 in a E-line 58 eye rimless?"...
Would make for an interesting set up.. but I have it bad enough now with all my guys always trying to find where I made a mistake.. :)

Jeff "grinding his life away at the beach"Trail



[This message has been edited by Jeff Trail (edited 06-15-2000).]

[stephanie]

Jeff, It really could prove to be interesting! I am sure whoever worked with you guys would learn alot(hint hint) Your posts are becoming almost as long as Darris' nowdays. I always try to read through all of them because they usually have some really good info.
Have A great weekend!
Steph"always willing to relocate"D

[don A]

Yo Juan - hang in there bro. I know of four other Opticians that is passionate about this trade. And I honestly believe that the next generation Opticians will have other passionate individuals who cares intensely about this trade. In the end all the big conglomorates will weed out their poor performers and begin to replace them with real Opticians, why because as the consumer becomes more educated by us the more they will demand quality service by qualified individuals.

don A.