Anitreflective coatings and UV coatings

[psykosis]

First, let me say that I enjoy this site. I've lurked for awhile, but I finally have something to post about.

Do any of you have any experience with AR coating failure on UV coated lenses (cr39) such as yellowing of the lens or crazing of the AR? We have seen this many times with a number of different AR coatings, but no one seems to be talking about it. If you have, can you please provide some feedback, or, even better, links to studies on this? I'm trying to come up with a comprehensive conclusion on this, and the research is hard going except for first hand experience, which is always viewed as suspect or biased.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[gemstone]

I've been informed that A/R does not do well with dye pot UVs. I suggest using a material thay has UV in the material itself, Such as Spectralite. Check with your lab as which materials have UV from the factory. All poly has AR but I never suggest poly for any reason.

[OPTIDONN]

I've been informed that A/R does not do well with dye pot UVs. I suggest using a material thay has AR in the material itself, Such as Spectralite. Check with your lab as which materials have AR from the factory. All poly has AR but I never suggest poly for any reason.

huh A/R in the material? A/R is a coating. Spectralite finished with A/R is no longer available. Not all poly has A/R. Why would you never suggest poly? You cannot tint, UV anything with A/R already on it. Did you mean UV instead of A/R

[gemstone]

huh A/R in the material? A/R is a coating. Spectralite finished with A/R is no longer available. Not all poly has A/R. Why would you never suggest poly? You cannot tint, UV anything with A/R already on it. Did you mean UV instead of A/R

Yea, Sorry. My brain is old and starting to fail.

[LKahn]

We manufacturer UV coatings and some hard coats used in the AR stack. Our products are for use on all types of plastic lenses. I would be happy to answer your questions. Send me your email and I will provide our recently published, Practical guide to tints, coatings and chemicals at not charge.

First, let me say that I enjoy this site. I've lurked for awhile, but I finally have something to post about.

Do any of you have any experience with AR coating failure on UV coated lenses (cr39) such as yellowing of the lens or crazing of the AR? We have seen this many times with a number of different AR coatings, but no one seems to be talking about it. If you have, can you please provide some feedback, or, even better, links to studies on this? I'm trying to come up with a comprehensive conclusion on this, and the research is hard going except for first hand experience, which is always viewed as suspect or biased.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Chris Ryser]

If you have, can you please provide some feedback, or, even better, links to studies on this? I'm trying to come up with a comprehensive conclusion on this, and the research is hard going except for first hand experience, which is always viewed as suspect or biased.[/b]

The concept of UV treatment is still not properly understood, mostly due to UV solution suppliers that sell those products were you put the lenses for 1 minute into the dye pot remove and it is all done.

To have UV treatments properly done it takes a minimum of 10 minutes in the dye pot (2 minute in the microwave with thew right chemicals for each). The lens pores take out 6-7 minutes to open properly tha UV gets into the pores for which you should allow anther minimum of 3 minutes.

Remove the lens lay it on the table until it is cold, and only then wash off the residues under the water tap.

By following these steps the UV material will be fully encapsulated and re-crystallised within the lens surface tha re-cosed its pores.

If you make a treatment that is too short in time or do not let the lens cool off long enoughyou will have half open pores with the crystals sticking out which then create vigurous problems after the lenses have gone through the washing process prior to AR coating.

Do the job right and you will not encounter any problems.

Some links: http://optochemicals.com/prism_article.htm

[HarryChiling]

I love how we are talkng about the proper treating of a lens for UV and we are talking bout opening up pores. Chris I know that you know better, but the opticians that you pass the info on to might not actually know that you are just using the term pores as an example.

[LKahn]

With the proper formulation of a UV solution, one can cause the plastic substrate to swell. Once the plastic swells it will absorb the UV solution. This process can be successfully accomplished in a few minutes. (More than one, but not as much as 7 minutes. This is a function of the specific UV formulation and will vary greatly with different brands.

Additionally, we have a technique for doing this with tint as well. Our technique will work effectively with polycarbonate which most have a more difficult time tinting. The technique require a unique tint formulation to work. At this point we are approaching discussion of trade secrets which limits my ability to discuss. I will happily discuss this offline for any needing some help.

[Chris Ryser]

With the proper formulation of a UV solution, one can cause the plastic substrate to swell. Once the plastic swells it will absorb the UV solution. This process can be successfully accomplished in a few minutes. (More than one, but not as much as 7 minutes. This is a function of the specific UV formulation and will vary greatly with different brands.

Have to disagree...................After 25 years of making UV formulations I can well say that in order to have proper adherance of the complete AR coating of whose base is the intermittent coating, the the UV treated lens has to have a clean surface so that there will be no occurence of delamination. Delamination can occur if the washing cycle prior to the hardcoating can not remove left over UV chemical residues on the surface.

Additionally, we have a technique for doing this with tint as well. Our technique will work effectively with polycarbonate which most have a more difficult time tinting. The technique require a unique tint formulation to work. At this point we are approaching discussion of trade secrets which limits my ability to discuss. I will happily discuss this offline for any needing some help.

There are no trade secerets..................simply start using the patented MicroTint System and you can tint poly in 4 to 6 minutes to the darkest shades. Just check it on my website, you wont have to call me for secret talks. :D

[LKahn]

Chris

We at Optical Chemicals understand how to do something to the plastic substrate that you may not understand. Technical processes and formula we do not discuss or share which why we call it a "Trade Secret". Since you compete in some of the same markets we do, we choose not to discuss some details in this forum. Product features and benefits we do discuss at length.

As I see it, the value of this forum is to establish new relationships, exchange information, to help other optical professionals with various technical question and some enjoyment.

You may not have the corner on the market of new innovations. Some of us have innovations in our products that your products may lack.

[LKahn]

Chris

Some of us prefer a trade secret to a patent. I have read your patent and it was informative.

The classic example of a preference for a trade secret over a patent is "Coca-Cola" one of the best kept trade secrets in the world. The Coke people perfer not to share as a patent would require.

[FCChemist]

Larry, trade secret is a legal term that by definition is not disclosed. It is considered to be proprietary and confidential information. If you disclose what you consider to be a trade secreted process to anyone without a non-disclosure agreement it is no longer a trade secret.

[LKahn]

I understand and agree with what you say which is why I choose not to discuss certain details. I do discuss features and benefits.

Larry, trade secret is a legal term that by definition is not disclosed. It is considered to be proprietary and confidential information. If you disclose what you consider to be a trade secreted process to anyone without a non-disclosure agreement it is no longer a trade secret.