View Poll Results: Should Opticians Refract

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  • Yes (unequivocally, with no supervision or restrictions)- with formal training

    98 36.03%
  • Yes (with no supervision, but with restrictions as to whom can be seen)

    55 20.22%
  • Yes (with supervision)

    53 19.49%
  • No (because there is no need for Opticians to refract)

    54 19.85%
  • No (Opticians are not capable of refracting)

    12 4.41%
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Thread: Should Opticians Refract - The Poll

  1. #176
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    From a state that has no licensing standards, there is a huge problem.Secondly, we have no uniform educational standards with licensing of our profession with in the US. Until everyone obtains a unified educational/ licensing standard this is mute point. Without these type of standards no 3rd party organization will recognize someone.

    I learned refraction many years ago and still use it today. It allows me to better solve a patients visual problem. The final judgement though lies in the hands of the people recognized, licensed and educated to do so in our state, the OD & ophthalmologist. I can do so many things under them, I just can not do it independently.

    We need every optician in the country to adopt a professional attitude and commit to acheive mandatory educational and licensing/certification standards before we will see changes. Most individuals whom say they are opticians in the states don't want to or are intimidated that they need to return for education to acheive this goal. Therefore is the problem. Many years ago, a person that I regard highly, Ed August said, "we have to educate to legislate".

  2. #177
    Just An Optician jediron1's Avatar
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    Bev said: Ed August said, "we have to educate to legislate".

    Bev you hit the nail on the head. The problem arose when WMC made a ridiculous statement that said: "It should not take a licensed health care professional to "sell glasses"; Talk about taking a back seat, WMC just sent every Optician back 40 years with that errant statement, then he say's no one understood. Come on WMC, we all understood. You sound like the Opticians in N.Y. a few years ago who wanted to change the N.Y. law and with the help of the big chains did, there reasoning was: " don't worry about going to the MICKEY MOUSE ABO it will be good for the state because it will put more OPTICIANS out there and it did, they don't know a PD stick from Slab Off but the chains got there wish" Well they watered down the N.Y. test to this Mickey Mouse test and you don't think we need a license to sell glasses? I won't even get into why we should have a license because that would be reduntant, but suffice it to say if all the large chains had there way we would never have a license in any State!
    I think I will check my phone book for a Doctor, I have this pain in my side, but I don't want one who has a license WMC said "you don't need a license".
    I will show this to my sister who is a nurse and can't work with out a license
    I m sure she will be happy to learn that WMC is promoting the notion that you don't need a license.

    Finally, as was said before:Ed August said, "we have to educate to legislate".
    And I might add without legislation you can't license! You must have one to go with the other!
    Last edited by jediron1; 03-05-2005 at 07:58 AM.

  3. #178
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    Sales?

    I stand by my statement! All the major chains have classifications such as frame stylist, or something of the sort. I was attmepting to be nice to you in explaining myself, but obviously that does not work. NY and others require a license to dispense Rx eyewear. So does NC and 20 others, but selling? It does not require a license to tell a customer that the blue frame looks wonderful. The requisite knowledge to analyze an Rx, and the ability to solve problems associated with the dispensing of eyewear should, but does not in most jurisdictions. If all we are to do is become salesmen, which is what has happened in 60% of this country, we have a problem. Set back Opticians back? We have done a great job of that ourelves. If you read my posts on this thread, you will see that I indicate from the start we need to edeucate ourselves to move forward. I am trying to do so, and will continue, despite these comments. We don't (or should not) need a license to be glorified sales people. Licensure is designed to protect the public.
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 03-05-2005 at 10:34 AM.

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald
    ............................It does not require a license to tell a customer that the blue frame looks wonderful. .................... If all we are to do is become salesmen, which is what has happened in 60% of this country, we have a problem. .......................... We don't (or should not) need a license to be glorified sales people. Licensure is designed to protect the public.
    Usually a diploma at the end of an education is the proof that you have been educated. Therfore in any profession a license is usually given to somebody that has a diploma. Anybody can say hes been educated.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Heishman
    We need every optician in the country to adopt a professional attitude and commit to acheive mandatory educational and licensing/certification standards before we will see changes. Most individuals whom say they are opticians in the states don't want to or are intimidated that they need to return for education to acheive this goal. Therefore is the problem.
    You said it all
    Chris Ryser
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    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  5. #180
    Just An Optician jediron1's Avatar
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    Chris you did it again great post and your right Bev did hit right!

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald
    I stand by my statement! All the major chains have classifications such as frame stylist, or something of the sort. ... NY and others require a license to dispense Rx eyewear. So does NC and 20 others, but selling? It does not require a license to tell a customer that the blue frame looks wonderful. The requisite knowledge to analyze an Rx, and the ability to solve problems associated with the dispensing of eyewear should, but does not in most jurisdictions. If all we are to do is become salesmen, which is what has happened in 60% of this country, we have a problem. Set back Opticians back? We have done a great job of that ourelves. If you read my posts on this thread, you will see that I indicate from the start we need to edeucate ourselves to move forward. I am trying to do so, and will continue, despite these comments. We don't (or should not) need a license to be glorified sales people. Licensure is designed to protect the public.
    But, selling and dispensing go hand in hand. That blue frame may look wonderful, but will it be appropriate for progressive lenses or a high minus/plus Rx?

    Now, please don't get upset with me wmcdonald. I reread this entire thread to make sure I remembered the direction of the debate. I know that in the past, people pulled snippets of your posts and jumped all over them. I just wanted to point out that it's very easy to misinterpret when people read only a few posts.

    I do understand your point though. For example, there are very vague rumours that it may become mandatory for optometric assistants in BC to be certified. I'm all for it, but I know that among my colleagues there are many who think it's absolutely unnecessary. (Just as you shouldn't need a license to sell glasses, you shouldn't need a certificate to answer the phone. :hammer: ) I think the point is that if the perception is that opticians are salespeople and optometric assistants are receptionists, then educated or not we won't get ahead.

    Like you, I am a strong supporter of educating yourself to move forward in your chosen field. And I agree that with formal education and training, a clear model for vision care provision (meaning that we know who patients need to see for what), and a willingness for all 3 O's to work together in equal partnership, our eyecare professions can really move ahead. It's a fantasy I don't think I'll see in my lifetime, but hey, one can always dream.

    I have tried really hard to develop an informed opinion on refracting opticians because it's a very hot topic here in BC. Much of the information I can get is one-sided since I work in an optometry clinic, but thankfully I do have resources like Optiboard to see the "other side". I did vote "yes, with supervision" not because I think that an OD or MD needs to supervise every refraction done by a well-trained and proficient refracting optician, but because I think the College of Opticians has to do a better job of supervising its own registrants. As I understand things right now, sight-testing is still not legal in BC (someone correct me if I'm wrong). However there are 6 independent opticians within a 4 block radius of our clinic that are performing automatic sight-testing with the Eyelogic system. And I have serious doubts that the majority of those opticians went through NAIT's Sight Testing Program. Yet, the College has done nothing about them or the dozens of other opticians in the Lower Mainland who are doing the same. It's very hard to maintain respect for a regulatory body that is doing nothing while some of its registrants do whatever they can to make the sale.

  7. #182
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    I agree whole heartedly with Brad.

  8. #183
    Just An Optician jediron1's Avatar
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    mlm said:Like you, I am a strong supporter of educating yourself to move forward in your chosen field. And I agree that with formal education and training, a clear model for vision care provision (meaning that we know who patients need to see for what), and a willingness for all 3 O's to work together in equal partnership, our eyecare professions can really move ahead. It's a fantasy I don't think I'll see in my lifetime, but hey, one can always dream.

    With attitudes like this it will be a "fantasy" YOU may never see. The point you and WMC are missing is what Chris pointed out and what Bev acknowledged from a quote from Ed August "we have to educate to legislate".
    Chris went on to point out that:

    "Usually a diploma at the end of an education is the proof that you have been educated. Therfore in any profession a license is usually given to somebody that has a diploma. Anybody can say hes been educated."

    The other two O's will never recognize us unless we educate ourselfs and become licensed. With education and licensure we get the recognition that we would never have had with out that education (diploma)!
    Last edited by jediron1; 03-07-2005 at 09:02 PM.

  9. #184
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    Whoa! Okay, I don't get where the dissonance is. We all seem to agree that education is the key. With education will come licensure. With licensure should come recognition and respect.

    The key to understanding wmcdonald's statement (and I certainly hope he'll correct me if I'm misinterpreting his words) has to do with perception and semantics. I'll use my own job as an example. When I tell people that I'm an optometric assistant, 90% of those people think I'm simply the girl at the front desk who answer the phone. Heck, my own parents think that's what I do! I tell people I'm a certified optometric assistant through the Cdn. Assoc. of Optometrists and a certified paraoptometric assistant through the AOA; then I'm perceived as the girl at the front desk who answers the phone and is way overeducated for that role. Afterall, I don't need to be certified to answer a phone. The point is that I do way more than answer that phone, but having the certificates alone won't change that perception.

    So, no, you don't need a license to say that the blue frame looks better on Mrs. Smith and sell her that frame. You should need a license (or the proper education) to dispense that frame and ensure that the lenses in the frame are appropriate for her prescription and visual needs. But that license alone will only make you look like a "glorified sales person", unless there is concurrent public education to show that opticianry is more than sales.

    In British Columbia, it is mandatory for all opticians, practicing and non-practicing, to be registered with the College of Opticians of BC. To become a member of the College, opticians have to be graduates of an approved training program, sit for and pass the registration exam and submit to a criminal record check. We are already there!!

    Do I still think that my vision for ideal eyecare delivery is a fantasy? Yes I do. Because while we have the first point (formal education), we don't have the other two (a model for vision care provision and a willingness to work together). The general public still gets confused over the roles of the three O's, and intentionally or not, our infighting contributes to that confusion. Who here can honestly say that they have never ever witnessed one of the O's dismissing the work of the other two? So, back to perception...how can we all earn recognition and respect from the public if we can't recognise and respect each other? If you can find a solution to that dilemma and put it into practice in my lifetime, then you will have fulfilled my ultimate fantasy ;)

  10. #185
    Just An Optician jediron1's Avatar
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    mlm you should go back and re-read Chris's response to WMC. But as you said it could just be "semantics". And of course it does not take a license to show a frame but it sure would help if you were aware what and how that frame was made and to have the knowledge to back up what your saying. Re-read the posts your missing the point that Chris,Bev and I were trying to make just as WMC did! I don't believe this whole thread!:hammer:

  11. #186
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    Education

    British Columbia requires an education. In 28 states in the US, we require nothing. The dispensing process requires a great deal of knowledge, but the "frame stylist" at most of the larger chains do not have that knowledge. In some MD and OD offices they have folks that do sales all day in the dispensary and know very little about optics. How can you argue that point? Selling is not what they license Opticians to do!
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 03-17-2005 at 03:14 PM.

  12. #187
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    Recognition and respect

    If you didn't bring it with you .... you might not ever get any.

    In 1965, my second year at a wholesale laboratory, I was making just under $2.00 per hour and afraid that this was not going to be enough after our first child was born and my wife would have to quit work. So I started selling Fuller Brush products door-to-door (back when one could do such things) after hours and on Saturdays. My guess is that even then this was not thought of as a highly respected "profession". If one did not start with their own sense of respect, they were not going to get it by going door to door. I never felt that selling was any less respectful than inspecting the optics of lenses as they came out of the surface room.

    While the concept of "selling" is demeaned by many, I think it is the heart of our economy. While some think of selling as pushing a person (talking them into it) to buy what they would not otherewise, I think of it as the process of discovering the real need(s) of the patient and then presenting several options as solutions to the various needs. This can not be separated from the knowledge of optics and frame fitting. When you do, you get the weird orders that labs see every day from the offices of a (lcep) licensed eye care professional.

    When a LCEP encounters a presbyopic patient do they automatically "sell" this patient on the latest version of Varilux with their latest high-end coating? That is pushy, inconsiderate SELLING!

    The respect and recognition that we can earn is first from or patients who recognize that we are working with them to design solutions to their visual challenges. It also comes from our co-workers and our suppliers who see that we are successful problem solvers. Perhaps later it will come from the next tier of society above us. But it won't come from a diploma or licenses. Lawyers and diplomas and licenses - are they generally respected?
    So let's not so quickly dismiss sales as a low class activity that is under the level of opticianry. Independent optometry has plenty of examples of what happens when one does that. That is how us independent opticians survive.

    Can I refract? Yes. Do I use that to my advantge in the design of eyewear? Certainly. Is it technically legal? No. Do I claim to or desire to give eye examinations? Absolutely Not!! Do my patients (oops, I need to say clients) appreciate the time effort and knowledge spent in discovering and meeting their needs? You can bet on it. Do I have the respect of OD's and MD's? Yes, as and optician. As a peer? No. And I am quite happy with that.

  13. #188
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    Sales is not the issue......

    Please read the posts. I advocate education for Opticians. I said in the posts that there should be a midlevel role for Opticians. Enjoy your role, whatever you wish it to be. It still does not require a license to be a salesman. I differentiate between sales and Ophthalmic Dispensing.
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 03-17-2005 at 05:46 PM.

  14. #189
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    Sales and professions

    If you take sales (the process of discovering the desired outcome of the client and offering the client solutions to bring about those outcomes) out of any profession you will have a well educated person who makes no money.

    Even a back-room research scientist must "sell" his ideas in order to be allowed to stay in the back room.

    I would like to know if there are any stastics realated to premium lenses & lens treatments and the various states that have set the trend in their use.

  15. #190
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    Missing the Point

    Let me make this simple. I am trying to differentiate between the sales clerks at that "sell" eyewear and the professional side of what Opticians do. Of course you cannot seperate the sales side of life, but that is NOT why Opticians are licensed. Please read the threads. All I am advocating here is education at a higher level, which in many states and jurisdictions is currently at level 0; is that what you advocate?. How can you argue against any profession improving educational standards? A good saleperson is invaluable, but they can't analyze an Rx because of their sales ability. Remember the old adage, "if you think education is expensive, try ignorance". It holds true. To be a back-room scientist implies some level of knowledge in the first place (ie: science). How can someone offer the right solutions without first knowing what they are? I simply do not understand how Opticians can argue against education. It baffles me.

  16. #191
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    Warren, education is the key to the advancement of opticianry. I for one is licensed in a state (Florida) that is by all standards a tough state to obtain your license, if you do not know the business. After years of employment I earned a Certified Ophthalmic Technician credential also.

    The problem is that most Optometrists and Optometric assistants feel that opticianry is far less complicated to require a license. Some even feel that an OA is far more knowledgeable than a licensed Optician.

    What they do not understand is that as a profession, we can practice independently from them. We can have our own Independent practice. They do not understand this independence. The OA will never have her own practice nor understand the beauty of ownership. She/he will always be an employee who ultimately has to answer to the OD.

    The question about refraction is if it can be separated from the eye examination. In my view it can. Refraction is not brain surgery. Sure, the patient may have a brain tumor or have a retinal detachment or some other complicated disease that a simple refraction would not detect. The issue is to educate the optician to provide the level of care and educate the American public as to what is a refraction.

    I have friends that are Ods, an as individuals they are great. But as group ODs nature is to diminush all the accomplishments that opticians have made because of financial reasons. They are scared that if one state does manage to pass a legislation others will follow.

    Lets look at Hearing aids for a second. This industry is similar to ours as there are three types of practioners.
    In analogy the hearing aid dispenser is like the Optician. The audilogists is like the Optometrists and the ear md is like the ophthalmologist. They all make money from the hearing aids. the only difference is that ALL 3 can perform tests to determine the hearing aid style. people are not dying from seeing a hearing aid dispenser.

    Its a matter of educating the public as to what is refraction.
    Anything said against this natural progression is "protecting the turf"

    Dannyboy;)

  17. #192
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    Again, Missing the Point

    Refraction is secondary. My point is that education is the answer to anything we want to do. I am well aware of the points you are making, and would ask you to read the posts to see the whole thread. I am saying (once again) that just like the ODs, we can educate ourselves to do other things. I am standing firm in my belief that only through education can we remain a viable professional entity. The thread is entitled "Should Opticians Refract". My point is that we can if we educate ourselves. I suggested a mid-level practice role (much like a nurse practitioner) and still feel that is a good model. Also included in things Opticians should consider are low vision, contact lenses, etc. All will take higher levels of education and /or training for future Opticians. Many of you do those things already. I am not addressing you. Note I said future Opticians. That means the next generation.
    Last edited by wmcdonald; 03-18-2005 at 09:40 AM.

  18. #193
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    optician refracting

    I am ok with WMD what he is standing for .I THINK THAT THE OTHER MORE EXPERANCED OPTICIAN SHOULD DO MORE TO HELP GET SOME GOALS PAST.WMD HAD A SERVAY DONE I WAS SUPPRISED BY IT ,FROM OTHER OPTOMREIST, MDS, AND OPTICAN ITS ACCURATE. HE SUGGESTED EDUCATION MENTORING AND OTHER IDEAS FOR OPTICIANS . SO WE DONT BECOME A DEAD GROUP OF OPTICIANS.IAM LOOKING TO IMPORVE OPTICNARY. THE BOTTOM LINE WE ALL HAVE REFRACTED. IS THE BENDING OF LIGHT HOW HARD. WE DO THIS DAILY BY EYEGLASSES.

  19. #194
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    Education Questions

    Warren,

    Sorry you are being beat up so bad, now you know how I felt for two years pushing the same issues.

    I have some education related questions for you:
    1. Now that NFOS has distance learning, what has been the impact on COA schools? How many are still operating and what is the average enrollment? What kind of learn the bookwork at home- practical skills on campus, programs are available today?
    2. Many states, including mine are moving towards apprentence programs instead of formal education, why the trend?
    3. Since the major chains oppose any legislation (education and licensing) that restricts the number of opticians entering the profession and opticians themselves fear formal education requirements, why continue to pour more resources into formal optical education until there is adequate demand.
    4. With these trends, optical salaries in licensed states seem to be increaseing dramatically due to a lack of available licenses. Is this a bad thing? Won't the market work things out in the end?
    Rep

  20. #195
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    Dcdawn, your post was extremely hard to read and understand. You might want to re-write it.

  21. #196
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    Rep

    I have been fighting this battle for 25 years, and I simply will not quit. My recent research indicates support in Opticianry for continuance of apprenticeship, but with an academic component. True apprenticeship has always had some classroom instruction attached (as defined by the US Dept. of Labor). In Opticianry it is usually no more than cheap labor. My study also indicated that most of the survey participants who trained via apprenticeship (~60%) had no real instruction, but had to learn on their own. If we are to truly advance, we must learn more and expand our horizons into new areas of practice. Many who call themselves Opticians today cannot analyze an Rx (watch the response to this comment...., but I see it nearly every weekend somewhere. Discuss finding a power in a meridian and you see blank stares in the room). We have become glorified order takers, and if that is what some on this board wish, then more power to them, but that is not my goal.

    To your questions:
    1. DL has had a significant impact on the schools that use it effectively. Durham has increased exponentially, as has Hillsborough and others. Learning is accomplished through online instruction, combined with local mentors to guide the student and some campus visits for most of the schools. Before some individual who has never taken on online course comments that it can't be done effectively, Harvard, Duke, Stanford and others do it, and it is proving itself in Opticianry through similar scores to traditional learners on state boards, etc., according to many educators.
    2. The trend has always been towards apprenticeship, but the schools are seeing increases in some states. See who is running the schools and you may see an indication as to why the school is or is not successful. Apprenticeship is seen as a way to achieve a goal and get paid doing it. Can't say I blame the students. The NFOS is meeting this weekend in Durham. I will be interested to see the comments on enrollments. I suspect some up, and some down.
    3. I, and many other folks who care about the future of Opticiany, hate to see what is happening to our peers, and remember what we once were (yes you can spell that old). We blame things on the chains, the ODs, the moon in some strange pattern, but it is really the enemy within. The masses out there have never had any commonality in training. Opticians are different from state to state and simply are confused as to what they are. We must remedy that or become a subset of Optometry and/or become assistants in medical offices. The way to accomplish that goal is to demand of future Opticians some common education and training.
    As to demand; I have data that indicates there is demand. The demand, however, should not affect those already in the field. It should affect those who want to be Opticians in the future. We need to plan and prepare for what we can be in the future of the eye care delivery system, and that must include an education, if we are to remain a viable profession. If the majority want to remain as is, then so be it. I feel, however, that there could be more our there if we just open our eyes.
    4. Licenses are not designed to inflate salaries, but to protect the public. The chains are wll aware of that, and want to minimize salaries as much as possible. That is just good business. If we cannot prove potential harm, then licenses will soon be gone, and the chains, ODs and others will be thrilled to provide as much assistance to the decline of licensure as they possibly can. That is competition, and it is evident in several states. Tn has recently fought the efforts of Optometry in their state to eliminate licensure, and it will come again. Others are soon to face a similar battle. I have testified numerous times against the NAOO in their quest to do away with licensure. If one state falls, others will not be far behind. We can leave it to the market, and those salraies may soon be an impetus to do away with licensure, or increase our worth through education and training to do more. I may be slow, but it makes perfectly good sense to me.

    I really apperciate your comments, and I assure you, I will not give up. It simply amazes me how anyone can argue against education. Thankfully, my data indicates support for increasing educational standards across the country, and this small minority here does not bother me in the least. In fact, I feel as though I have not done a good job explaining my stance, or they would have to agree. I hope I can sway just one.

  22. #197
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    NFOS Schools - Distance Learning - Refracting

    Hi Rep,

    Thought I'd jump in here, as I teach in an NFOS school and am very involved with Distance Learning.

    While I cannot answer for all schools, I can tell you that those involved with Distance Learning are doing very well and enjoying large increases in enrollment.

    Years ago, I had a conversation with the Exec Dir. of Florida, asking why we can't get rid of the outdated model of apprenticeship once and for all, given that distance learning answers the access question. (sorry for run-on sentence!)

    ; )

    He stated that, instead of trying to legislate mandatory AS degrees, we should make going to college for opticianry as attractive as possible. (kind of "If you build it, they will come"). He was absolutely right. We have made our distance learning program very attractive...accesible geographically, economically, and user friendly. It is not just written text...it is a series of streaming videos of lectures (didactics) with structured experiencial labs off site. We include contact lens fitting (by the very fabulous CL guy, Bill Underwood) as well as refractometry.

    I am confident that we, as opticians, will move forward with education, even inspite of ourselves.

    : )

    Hey Warren - Nice to see you here...keep up the great work!

    Laurie

  23. #198
    Master OptiBoarder ziggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati,Ohio
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,133

    My Two Cents

    I think Dr Mac is right.The only problem is that we need to start now. If I don't have an A.S., the young opticians are less likley to get theirs. I have looked into the distance learning programs at several schools, it may just be my low income,but it seems high to me. It would be great if the "on-line programs" were not subject to out of state fees or at least if there were a central clearing house for financial aid.:(
    Paul:cheers:

  24. #199
    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    in Naples FL for the Winter months
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
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    23,240

    Question........................

    I have a question.............not being to familiar with long distance learning.

    I assume the distance learning involves all the theory an optician should know to work the profession. That seems clear to me.

    My concern is how is the practical side handled. Opticianry is after all still an artisan profession with a lot of manual operations to be learned.

    Are there exams in theory as well as in manual work?

    I would be thankful for somebody answering these basic questions.
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

  25. #200
    Bad address email on file
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Occupation
    Lens Manufacturer
    Posts
    3

    Education is the key

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie
    Hi Rep,

    Thought I'd jump in here, as I teach in an NFOS school and am very involved with Distance Learning.

    While I cannot answer for all schools, I can tell you that those involved with Distance Learning are doing very well and enjoying large increases in enrollment.

    Years ago, I had a conversation with the Exec Dir. of Florida, asking why we can't get rid of the outdated model of apprenticeship once and for all, given that distance learning answers the access question. (sorry for run-on sentence!)

    ; )

    He stated that, instead of trying to legislate mandatory AS degrees, we should make going to college for opticianry as attractive as possible. (kind of "If you build it, they will come"). He was absolutely right. We have made our distance learning program very attractive...accesible geographically, economically, and user friendly. It is not just written text...it is a series of streaming videos of lectures (didactics) with structured experiencial labs off site. We include contact lens fitting (by the very fabulous CL guy, Bill Underwood) as well as refractometry.

    I am confident that we, as opticians, will move forward with education, even inspite of ourselves.

    : )

    Hey Warren - Nice to see you here...keep up the great work!

    Laurie
    Greetings to all,
    Moving from a licensed state(Florida)to an unlicesed state(Michigan)I have first hand knowledge of the importance of education and training as a true optician. Michigan is not a licensed state(you can be hired and called an optician with NO experience what so ever). I believe through sites like this we can all continue to communicate our objectives and maybe one day have all states licensed and provide the QUALITY eyewear that our patients deserve.
    Scott Stenzel

    (As a graduate of HCC distance learning i just wanted to let everyone know that it is a great program and highly recomended)Laurie, tell Bill hello from Michigan

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