View Poll Results: Should Opticians Refract

Voters
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  • Yes (unequivocally, with no supervision or restrictions)- with formal training

    98 36.03%
  • Yes (with no supervision, but with restrictions as to whom can be seen)

    55 20.22%
  • Yes (with supervision)

    53 19.49%
  • No (because there is no need for Opticians to refract)

    54 19.85%
  • No (Opticians are not capable of refracting)

    12 4.41%
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Thread: Should Opticians Refract - The Poll

  1. #251
    Underemployed Genius Jacqui's Avatar
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    I don't want to do this again.

  2. #252
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpod View Post
    Harry, not trying to start an arguement, but so much of what you said is opinion, not fact. I will just leave it alone.
    Here is what I ask, I will not argue with you if you will read and discuss this paper by David A Goss, OD PhD on the History of Optometry a lecture given in Indiana University School of Optometry, since there program incorporates opticians and optometrists it is the most unbiased lecture I have seen to date on the subject. This is where I got my infromation from.

    Dr Goss makes a very brave statement to his peers that I find says it all:

    "Lesson for today: Every profession justifies its existence (in part) by being better at
    something than any other profession (a niche). We need to maintain our strength in
    the treatment of refractive problems and eyestrain."
    I have always said although an OD having the privledge of medical care is nice it is not the primary purpose of the patients visit. I judge the strengths of an OD first and foremost by his/her skill in the lane, my profession depends on it which is why I get heated sometimes.

    PS - It's a great read and even though you may feel burnt out by this discussion it is a great document that shows our professions roots.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by HarryChiling; 09-26-2008 at 03:24 PM.

  3. #253
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    So within 18 minutes of posting I can be called a liar, in another 17 minutes I get blown off as just starting something, yet I try an post my facts and it has been a littel over 1 hour 20 minutes and no one has even downloaded and read the proof that was written by a professor of optometry. So then I just spew rederick is what the minds have decided. It's a shame, I can't argue with that kind of logic and I have been a fool for trying for so long, don't worry I don't hate optometry as much as I loath opticians lately.
    Last edited by HarryChiling; 09-26-2008 at 04:33 PM.

  4. #254
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    Refracting

    After working in ophthalmology for the last few years, and seeing the "techs" that they "train" off of the street with no medical or optical background, and the refractions that they are allowed to do and expected to do after only a few weeks on the job, I say that opticians would be a much better choice in ecp's doing refractions.:drop:

  5. #255
    Underemployed Genius Jacqui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmintzer7 View Post
    After working in ophthalmology for the last few years, and seeing the "techs" that they "train" off of the street with no medical or optical background, and the refractions that they are allowed to do and expected to do after only a few weeks on the job, I say that opticians would be a much better choice in ecp's doing refractions.:drop:
    That's one of the reasons that I think NP's should be allowed to refract.

  6. #256
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    Sure! As long as it is checked by O.D./M.D.

    That's what our office does :)

  7. #257
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    Harry, their should be more strong people like you, with confidence, strength and knowledge. We should concentrate our efforts on the people who support us and not the people who drain us. I would like to thank you for all the useful information, because I have passed it on to the appropriate personnel. And any Opticians out there who feel the same go to your legislatures. Optometrists fight everyday to take away what the Ophthamologists are doing everyday without the supervision of an Ophthamologist.

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    So within 18 minutes of posting I can be called a liar, in another 17 minutes I get blown off as just starting something, yet I try an post my facts and it has been a littel over 1 hour 20 minutes and no one has even downloaded and read the proof that was written by a professor of optometry. So then I just spew rederick is what the minds have decided. It's a shame, I can't argue with that kind of logic and I have been a fool for trying for so long, don't worry I don't hate optometry as much as I loath opticians lately.

  8. #258
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post

    But now that the whole thing can be done by machine as well as many refractionists bother to do. Why not just get refraction de-regulated as a "medical practice" and buy a damn machine without bothering to take a lot of complicated courses and legislation.

    Chip
    It took fifteen years, but Chip proved to be a prophet.

    P.S. I did not resurrect this.
    Last edited by drk; 01-17-2020 at 03:13 PM.

  9. #259
    Rising Star
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    No. Why would you want to? It's not a question of not being capable. Stay in your lane. Patients want the Doctor to do the Doctoring..... Think of all the bad rx's from techs at MD practices. Focus on helping your patient. If you have time to refract then your business needs help. Sell multiple pairs, get your AR percentage up.......... Focus on customer service. We are not Doctors.

  10. #260
    Master OptiBoarder
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    So within 18 minutes of posting I can be called a liar, in another 17 minutes I get blown off as just starting something, yet I try an post my facts and it has been a littel over 1 hour 20 minutes and no one has even downloaded and read the proof that was written by a professor of optometry. So then I just spew rederick is what the minds have decided. It's a shame, I can't argue with that kind of logic and I have been a fool for trying for so long, don't worry I don't hate optometry as much as I loath opticians lately.

    Well said Harry. This proves you were definitely on Optiboard. It’s why I seldom read it any more.

  11. #261
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    Btw Harry , I did download and read the paper.

  12. #262
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    Personally, I would love to be trained to refract. And then, of course, have the chance to use it.

    My dad recently had a refraction from an ophthalmology tech, and it didn't take me long to realize it was super off. When my dad brought this up to the doc even the doc was annoyed with the Rx results. And yet the doc hadn't even bothered to check it - the Rx was simply accepted and given to my dad to use for updated lenses. Since I caught the error I had my dad come in to see our OD for a "real" refraction.

    I agree - if these techs can do it (and be allowed to do it badly) why can't opticians refract? Not that opticians would do it badly, but my training allowed me to see there was a problem. We've got some know-how about what results could be expected.

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by charisw View Post
    Personally, I would love to be trained to refract. And then, of course, have the chance to use it.

    My dad recently had a refraction from an ophthalmology tech, and it didn't take me long to realize it was super off. When my dad brought this up to the doc even the doc was annoyed with the Rx results. And yet the doc hadn't even bothered to check it - the Rx was simply accepted and given to my dad to use for updated lenses. Since I caught the error I had my dad come in to see our OD for a "real" refraction.

    I agree - if these techs can do it (and be allowed to do it badly) why can't opticians refract? Not that opticians would do it badly, but my training allowed me to see there was a problem. We've got some know-how about what results could be expected.
    In my experience, opticians refract a lot better than ophthalmic techs. Techs are generally too afraid of making decisions in favor of the patient while operating in a world of no refunds if things go wrong. Refracting opticians not only understand optical needs better than techs, but they are also aware of the eyeglasses acceptance risks and are comfortable adjusting everything for the needs of the patient. Because of the risk of refunds, opticians are also better communicators and generally set up expectations better than techs. The fitting knowledge only helps the conversation.

    That being said, techs are generally better, faster and sharper on every other equipment they run (autorefraction, IOP, slit-lamps, retinal pictures, visual acuities, etc).
    Last edited by vfpamp; 01-24-2020 at 09:20 AM.
    Vitor Pamplona
    CEO, EyeNetra Inc

    Come check our autorefractor, lensometer and phoropter.

  14. #264
    Master OptiBoarder
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    Thanks, Vitor. Opticians could play a much larger clinical role if they only would. Working in conjunction with other professionals, we could greatly expand our opportunities.

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