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Thread: Is Opticianry dead?

  1. #26
    Master OptiBoarder rep's Avatar
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    Not dead, just uncommitted

    Opticianry is not dead, just uncommitted. Sheedy's paper commented on the comparison of Opticianry to Optometry. It is really very simple. They are as a group committed and Opticians are not. Opticians had rather fight one another than get anything done for the good of the profession.
    It is not just the influence from the chains that everybody harps on. (In fact the chains have actually helped maintain the status quo in many states. Granted they have joined with optometry and opposed licensing every time it is introduced) The real objections often come from opticians who don't want formal education, licensure and expansion of the scope of practice. They also are not willing to put any money into the afore mentioned items. Optometrist do support Optometry to the tune of about $2,000 a year. Opticians won't give up $100 for state associations much less OAA, their only political arm.

    I don't see the situation changing in my lifetime one bit and I have a long history of experience with this issue.

    Rep

  2. #27
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Rep, I could not agree more.

  3. #28
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    After nearly 30 years in the business I can look back and say "Opticianry has been very good to me". I do not have anything but an associate's degree in marketing. I have taken classes in optics over the years and participated in seminars galore but by and large I have educated myself and learned on the job. I was able to work part-time while raising children, full-time when I was ready. I have been a lowly tint girl in a stinky lab, naive dispenser, frame buyer for a corp, general manager, etc. I now manage a mom and pop store and am very happy. I ahve been able to educate my children, own a home, buy a car, and generally live a decent middle-class existance. All because of Opticianry. I really don't care if I am respected for it or if they don't even know what my ABO certificate is. I have enjoyed this business and embraced the retail end of it. I love product and I love to sell. I love technology and science. I think we have the best of both worlds. I wanted to be a teacher and life got in the way. I realized a while ago that I am a teacher and my students are my patients and dispensers in training. Just my opinion in the last quarter of my "career".

  4. #29
    Paper Shuffler GOS_Queen's Avatar
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    Imho

    As Judy said: Opticians are our own worst enemy.

    A lot of people have gotten their feathers ruffled at the way OD's have continued to expand their scope of practice over the years. As I see it, the OD's are well-organized with pretty much a common vision for the future of their profession and a game plan. They have seen what they want and they are actively going for it!

    In my opinion, opticians, for the most part, don't seem willing to organize and move forward on their own. It seems they want it to be given to them without having to work for "it".

    I think it's weird and odd that MD's or OD's (or anyone hiring in this industry) would want someone in their dispensary without some kind of credentials. :hammer: I would think that they would want the finest opticians out there!

    Are there enough opticians that really care enough to distinguish themselves from the mcticians?

    Get your ABO. NCLE. Then, go for your advanced ABO and NCLE. Have YOU personally voiced your opinion on the direction of the national and state organizations to the organizations? Can you imagine if every optician that is passionate about their field wrote to the organizations (preferably, everyone does this so that the mail would get to the offices over the course of a few days ~ for greater impact)? What would you tell them in your letter? (seriously, I'd like to know) If they end up being not responsive to your concerns, then maybe it's time for a new national entity. Maybe that means YOU run for office in the state organization.

    Maybe your state isn't a licensed state. Maybe it COULD do something like Texas ~ voluntary registration (with credentials) :idea:

    Be the experts in your community for information on eyewear fashion and technical function.

    Get the ABO even if your employer doesn't acknowledge it.

    Educate yourself at every opportunity.

    Quit waiting for "it" to be handed to you.


    (Going to put on my flame retardant underwear now )
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    Smells like------Victory." -- Uncle Fester :p


  5. #30
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    Just a random question: How many of "us educated opticians" can solder a frame? Measure stress on lenses. Really understand aspherics and progressives? Can re-mount a hidden hinge? Can neutralize a soft or hard contact lens down to it's minute specifications? How many of us can custom edge, polish and change peripheral curves on rigid contact lenses? How many of you can detect lathemarks and aberration in a contact lenses. See aberration in spectacle lenses? How many of us are really good bench men?
    And then there are the most highly valued of us all, those that are good "salesmen."
    Of course if we were all college educated we would know a lot of theory, psychology, how to assist the doctor in surgery, do most of the eye exam for the doctor etc., undestand sales psychology, and maybe replace a screw. And of course we would be most talented in keeping inventory control and ballance sheets.
    I submit most of our education should be in the lab as an apprentice and just a little should be in the class room.

    Yeah, we dead all right.


    Chip
    Last edited by chip anderson; 02-17-2007 at 03:02 PM. Reason: More venom.

  6. #31
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Chip, while I would never presume to question your expertise as an optician, you would be well served to visit one of today's opticianry schools. The curriculum is demanding, technical in scope and well-rounded, encompassing professional office settings, fabrication labs and contact lens practices. Just the right combination to become and remain successful in our profession. Like it or not, these student opticians represent the future. Those among us who are smart enough to seek out and hire them will be well served for years to come.

  7. #32
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOS_Queen View Post
    In my opinion, opticians, for the most part, don't seem willing to organize and move forward on their own. It seems they want it to be given to them without having to work for "it".

    I think it's weird and odd that MD's or OD's (or anyone hiring in this industry) would want someone in their dispensary without some kind of credentials. :hammer: I would think that they would want the finest opticians out there!

    Quit waiting for "it" to be handed to you.
    "handed to us...???" Do you mean...um...like the MD's who think nothing of "putting in a dispensary" to more "economically" leverage the medical imprimatur of the Rxs they write?

    Handed to "us"...indeed!

    Barry

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Just a random question: How many of "us educated opticians" can solder a frame? Measure stress on lenses. Really understand aspherics and progressives? Can re-mount a hidden hinge? Can neutralize a soft or hard contact lens down to it's minute specifications? How many of us can custom edge, polish and change peripheral curves on rigid contact lenses? How many of you can detect lathemarks and aberration in a contact lenses. See aberration in spectacle lenses? How many of us are really good bench men?
    Chip, most of these skills are not marketable, except to labs. And where I live, there isn't an optical lab within 90 miles.
    Why solder? It's cheaper to buy a new frame. Same with fixing a hidden hinge.
    Polishing rigid lenses? Just so the patient won't return for an exam for 2 more years? No thanks.
    Custom edge CLs? Why learn when 96% of the lenses are soft.
    Times have changed. Maybe it's sad, maybe not. The only question I would ask potential employee during an interview is if they could neutralize a CL. Even if they could do it, they would probably ask 'What does neutralize mean?'

    Sure, the career has been dumbed down. It's just the normal course of business. If you have a lot a knowledge, you demand a lot of pay. The employers are constantly looking for ways to simplify tasks to cut jobs, and hire less skilled people.
    No reason to have an apprenticeship to learn non-marketable skills. It's like teaching someone to fix TVs.:hammer:

  9. #34
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    Marcie: Why repair a frame. Simple customer comes in has broken glasses, can't even see to get home. May or may not have adequate for new even if you can do it on the spot. You don't have a frame that is compatable with his old frame. You fix his old frame, he becomes your customer for life. That's why you learn. It's called service.
    Why learn to modify rigid contacts? There are many conditions that can only be corrected by rigid contacts and custom fitting is much better than out of the box. If you can improve the out of the box lens, the patient recognises you and an expert. He won't be going to the local wallymart or even his contact lens qualified doctor for contact lens fitting. We call this being an expert.
    Now why be able to neutralize, and yes, I mean base curve, power, diameter, thickness, optical curve, peripheral curve, etc. Patient comes in with rigid contact lenses that need replacement or are pefectly fine, you find out what they are for replacement avoiding months of the patient having to do without contacts (which may be his only viable option for good vision) while you hope his cornea's stabilize and you hope you will be able to achive as good a result as he had before he saw you. We call this expertise.
    Any more questions?
    Chip:cheers:

  10. #35
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcE
    Why solder? It's cheaper to buy a new frame. Same with fixing a hidden hinge.
    Polishing rigid lenses? Just so the patient won't return for an exam for 2 more years? No thanks.
    Custom edge CLs? Why learn when 96% of the lenses are soft.
    Times have changed. Maybe it's sad, maybe not. The only question I would ask potential employee during an interview is if they could neutralize a CL. Even if they could do it, they would probably ask 'What does neutralize mean?'
    Because the competition can't do it. :) 1800 sells contact lenses, but they can't touch a RGP with a 10 foot pole, americas best sells frames, but they can't solder with a 10 foot pole, the OD down the road fits RGP's but they can't verify them or modify them with a 10 foot pole.

    Is Opticianry dead?
    H*ll no, it is getting better, the dumber the staff the stores hire the higher their REDO's and COG's, and the less loyal their patients are to them. Opticians get a boat load of business if they know what they are doing and opticians get a loyal following too. It just feels that way because we are commonly judged by our lowest common denominator which tends to be some idiot who doesn't know jack.
    Last edited by HarryChiling; 02-17-2007 at 05:19 PM.
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  11. #36
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    Verification of RGP peripheral curve?

    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Marcie: Why repair a frame. Simple customer comes in has broken glasses, can't even see to get home. May or may not have adequate for new even if you can do it on the spot. You don't have a frame that is compatable with his old frame. You fix his old frame, he becomes your customer for life. That's why you learn. It's called service.
    Why learn to modify rigid contacts? There are many conditions that can only be corrected by rigid contacts and custom fitting is much better than out of the box. If you can improve the out of the box lens, the patient recognises you and an expert. He won't be going to the local wallymart or even his contact lens qualified doctor for contact lens fitting. We call this being an expert.
    Now why be able to neutralize, and yes, I mean base curve, power, diameter, thickness, optical curve, peripheral curve, etc. Patient comes in with rigid contact lenses that need replacement or are pefectly fine, you find out what they are for replacement avoiding months of the patient having to do without contacts (which may be his only viable option for good vision) while you hope his cornea's stabilize and you hope you will be able to achive as good a result as he had before he saw you. We call this expertise.
    Any more questions?
    Chip:cheers:
    I agree with everything above, except ordering secondary and peripheral RGP curves. I submit they are virtually impossible to verify, even though the literature says it can be done.
    Say the secondary curve is a standard 0.3mm wide and between 0.75-1.50mm flatter than your base curve. Say your RGP base curve is 8.00mm and secondary curve you've chosen is 9.00mm. The sharp junction would be removed with a 8.50mm tool and then blended. How much of the 0.3mm secondary curve width is left to measure, 0.10mm? Very doubtful that you could hit that 1/10th of a millimeter with your radiuscope.
    That's why trial lenses help so much. Your trial set will have whatever secondary curve that particular contact lens lab prefers (0.75 to 1.50mm flatter), and you will get a duplication of their secondary curve choice when you order the lens.:cheers:

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcE View Post
    Sure, the career has been dumbed down.
    I would disagree that the profession (of opticianry) has been dumbed down. (Licensing and certification issues aside).

    There is a heck of a lot more that a well trained optician of today must know. So much has evolved in the manufacture of frames, lenses and contacts, that today's dispensing optician cannot actively engage in all of that, and dispensing too. Sorry Chip, while I too cut my teeth fitting and dispensing rigid contacts, and somebody has to remember how to do it, it is more important for the optician of today to understand soft CLs, because more patients will be harmed from soft lenses. It is more important to know proper frame selection for progressive lens fitting than is to know that Canada Balsam was used to fuse bifocal segments to carrier lenses. Its not fair to say that a "good" optician today must know all this and be proficient in all that modern technology heaps upon us on a daily basis.

    That being said, there are people practicing as opticians who should have more formal training.

    I'm trying to say something positive here. I hope it goes over well.

    OOps...I can see it didn't...cause I'm one of those "ODs".
    Last edited by fjpod; 02-17-2007 at 05:17 PM. Reason: negative reference to ODs

  13. #38
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Separating task vs. concept orientation

    All of us who have had quality practical and theoretical training share one thing in common; we are experts at performing the task using the skills and maintaining the relationships with customers/patients that delivers dollars. This microservice, or micromarketing (including local advertising) is what has kept us alive thus far. And, absolutely no one can argue the fact that training is essential. However, all of us have failed dismally at MACRO marketing, the promotion of the concept of opticianry that the public has not been provided. The American Optometric Association and the American Associatin of Ophthalmology (or whatver they call themselves) have hired marketing people/firms to deliver the message of a concept of professionals delivering eyecare (treatment, etc.). Several "firms" were created to do "managed care marketing" over the years for optometry and ophthalmology. Physicians Eyecare Network, Physicians Resource Group, etc. etc. All of them were MACRO marketing organizations put together to capture business for one reason or another. All of them stem from some organization of professionals, legitimate or not, which basically are "fronts" to deliver concepts to the public. Even subgroups like ophthalmic assistants etc. have used marketing "firms" to promote a concept. Not one of them has used these marketing firms to promote the skills of the profession on the micro level. Nobody takes better P.D.'s than an optician. Nobody grinds lenses better than an optician. That just won't work. and you can't tell the general population to have respect because of a degree. We all have to agree that at no level is macro marketing being done for opticianry. And, we have the innate tendency to associate education with macromarketing, as though making ourselves more educated will generate some form of legitimacy and credibility to the greater marketplace. That misnomer never has worked and never will. You can't MICRO promote and expect a MACRO result. What opticianry lacks presently is the leadership that understands that education must be more intense to solidify the skills base, and macro marketing must be instituted to promote the profession. There's no debate here because if anyone thinks education is the cureall . . . we continue to read off dissimilar sheets of music. Frankly, I don't acknowledge any argument that substitutes marketing with education. Somebody needs to get a little more education in matters other than optical. This is crazy. All around us, one or more of the "other" "O's" is thinking on a higher level than opticianry. Our "forefathers", the Roy Marks', Ralph Drews, Russel Stimsons and the Bensons and the Houses of Vision, etc. were a damnsight more marketing saavy than we are. They were the ones who were super educated without a 2 year program, although they pushed hard for it. And, they were the ones who had the big "chains"of real opticians that few can come close to today. We made it possible for Walmart to happen and Target, Cole KEY Company, because with our so-called education, we did not do anywhere near what these predecessors did to promote opticianry. Shame on us. We dropped the ball thinking that a mortarboard is the ONLY way to go. If education is the panacea, whoever is doing it needs to get on public television and educate the masses, too. Or should that be left to a real national spokesman . . . like a real marketing oriented optician. I'm outa here!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Marcie: Why repair a frame. Simple customer comes in has broken glasses, can't even see to get home. May or may not have adequate for new even if you can do it on the spot. You don't have a frame that is compatable with his old frame. You fix his old frame, he becomes your customer for life. That's why you learn. It's called service.
    Why learn to modify rigid contacts? There are many conditions that can only be corrected by rigid contacts and custom fitting is much better than out of the box. If you can improve the out of the box lens, the patient recognises you and an expert. He won't be going to the local wallymart or even his contact lens qualified doctor for contact lens fitting. We call this being an expert.
    Now why be able to neutralize, and yes, I mean base curve, power, diameter, thickness, optical curve, peripheral curve, etc. Patient comes in with rigid contact lenses that need replacement or are pefectly fine, you find out what they are for replacement avoiding months of the patient having to do without contacts (which may be his only viable option for good vision) while you hope his cornea's stabilize and you hope you will be able to achive as good a result as he had before he saw you. We call this expertise.
    Any more questions?
    Chip:cheers:
    It sounds like your response is a little defensive. I didn't mean to lead you down that path. I understand what you are getting at. Service is why I solder, and edge lenses, and tint, and stock up to a -9.00 in SV. BTW, I can't sell a set of CL or spec lenses based on neutralizing a patient's set of lenses. Illegal in KS.

    My point is that if you educate opticians to perform these services, who will be willing to pay for that skill set? You would be preparing them for jobs that don't exist. It's the current market, and education won't change the marketplace.

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    I'll share what my plans are. Feel free to yell as much as you guys like :bbg:.

    Opticians with a lot of qualifications are great, and if I could find one that was in my area looking for a long term job, even better. However, there is a feeling amongst a lot of people that passing a test should qualify them for additional income. But when I start a practice, will that extra certification translate automatically into additional revenue? Perhaps. But, I think a more important thing is to be personable and helpful, get along with staff, etc. Patients have to like them. I don't NEED to have someone that can fit RGPs, solder a frame, etc. The specialized things that need done could be taught by me if need be. You can't teach personality. Thats what I need. I have a small library of information on optics, fitting progressives, etc and even more is available on the internet.

    I know there is a feeling on here that ODs can't do much besides refract. I've said over and over thats just plain wrong, but its been said here in passing more than once. I realize there is a common complaint on here that ODs won't hire qualified opticians. I don't want to be that stereotype. But realistically, I question the relative importance of a "certified optician" in my practice, or especially one that has passed some future extra technical training. I'm not saying its stupid, or shouldn't be done, or that its not worth it. What I need is a skill set, and I'll be the one deciding what that is in my practice.

    I think some of the things talked about as being specialized services are things that I would someday like to provide, ie soldering of frames in emergencies. However, the reality is that the current market isn't set up for that. All the TV repair men have lost their jobs, people throw out computers and cell phones instead of repairing them. Not that its right, but it is happening.

    I'm certain this doesn't apply to those owning their own store, etc. But the fact remains that optometrists perform a huge number of eye examinations and produce a good number of prescriptions that have to be filled. It would be unfortunate if a huge campaign was set out to accomplish something that is not viewed as being needed by a good deal of the industry.

  16. #41
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangezero
    But realistically, I question the relative importance of a "certified optician" in my practice, or especially one that has passed some future extra technical training. I'm not saying its stupid, or shouldn't be done, or that its not worth it. What I need is a skill set, and I'll be the one deciding what that is in my practice.
    The new advanced ABO has a lot of information on it concerning business, which does address the needs of the industry today, but it still has questions on it relateing to moisture chamber glasses and other such rarely seen or done pairs of glasses or circumstances. I think a good optician needs to have the skills to perform the job (frame repairs, contact lens fitting and modification, and business management) our profession ahs changed to the point where our skills need to be more and more all encompasing. Serious question orangezero, if you will be the one who decides what the skill sets are going to be in your practice, why would you not want higher skilled employees or certified opticians. In any business eveyone wants the best of the best and they want it cheap. The difference is that I feel in many offices cheap is the focus, but in most cases the best will more than pull his weight in additional labor costs and the enviornment is easier for everyone to work in when your people know what they are doing. Wouldn't you agree?
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    OptiBoard Professional Dannyboy's Avatar
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    Opticianry is dead as we know it...

    The young opticians of today are vastly different from the ones twenty or ten years ago. The main reason is really technology. We manufacture lenses that are pretty easy to fit. We use machinery that is automated to a level never before seen before. There are less and very few independent shops owned totally by opticians. It makes no sense going into opticianry college unless you are thinking of owning your own shop. The chains do not need you unless they need the "license' to be open. The doctors do not want to pay for your skills unless you are a super star selling. Only as owner one has a shot at making a decent living.

    Independent Opticianry is really a good career path for those states that are licensed mainly because there is a title protection and a better service to the public because of the array of services that one can provide. In licensed states you are guarantee the ability of neutralization, possibly the ability of contact lens fitting and low vision services among other services that go hand in hand with eyecare.

    The sad thing is that the other two O's frankly are not releasing in a fair manner the Rxs. In all OD and OMD meetings they call this schemes capture rate. So what is opticianry suppose to do...refract or reduce the cost of doing business to a level in which your services are of such good quality and service at a reduce cost that the other two O's cannot compete because it is not worth it for them to be competition.

    If you are not playing host to a prescriber your location must be one of large amounts of foot traffic so that you do not need a prescriber. Your service must be unique and above all superior. People would want to go to you just because it is you. Your prices are affordable and your staff is likeable. I suggest store locations as follow. Children Opticals (large cities) next to super toystores. Locations such as next to a supermarket or even inside one. Malls of all kinds...flea markets... Next to high chain optical stores. Next to Ophthalmology offices. You can kill them with prices and services. So is opticianry dead the answer is yes as an employee but no if you are an independent and free spirited individual. Remember as an Optician you do not have the college debt or the super high standard of living. You are used to just make it by with a few pennies from the chains or the tight doctors wages. I challenge you to make the jump into this kind of opticianry practice....

    Dannyboy

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    MarCe:
    Neutralization need be a skill. Suppose the doctor sends you a patient with instructions: "Replace his contacts." Nothing more, nothing less. What you gonna do, sit there and look stupid?
    I have had a many a doctor send me patients saying just that.
    I have had most of the keratoconnus patients sent to me arrive with no refraction ,or anything other than a note saying, keratoconnus, please fit rigid lenses. Some already had lenses that may or may not fit, but by looking at them on the eye, and neutralizing them, I at least knew where to start. I did have a prescription or at least a doctor's authorization but I didn't need him to wet-nurse me though the process. And yes, even in your state the doctor telling you either verbally or in writting, is enough of a prescription.
    If he sends a patient down with glasses and says: "Just give him what he has, he sees fine, they are just old." You gonna tell him you can't neutraize?
    And yes no matter what earlier opinions were expressed, it is possible to tell peripheral radii on spherical contact lenses with reasonalbl accuracy, if some one asks me, I'll tell them how.

    Chip

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangezero View Post
    I'll share what my plans are. Feel free to yell as much as you guys like :bbg:.

    Opticians with a lot of qualifications are great, and if I could find one that was in my area looking for a long term job, even better. However, there is a feeling amongst a lot of people that passing a test should qualify them for additional income. But when I start a practice, will that extra certification translate automatically into additional revenue? Perhaps. But, I think a more important thing is to be personable and helpful, get along with staff, etc. Patients have to like them. I don't NEED to have someone that can fit RGPs, solder a frame, etc. The specialized things that need done could be taught by me if need be. You can't teach personality. Thats what I need.
    I agree with you. Give me a smart cookie with personality and a desire to learn and I will take that any day. If this person already has optical knowledge great. If not, I'll teach them what they need to know as will everyone else they work with and come in contact with. When I am doing interviews I generally prefer experience but will not hire someone who doesn't have a clue how to be personable. Where are all the certified opticians who also have personality and excellent people skills? Well, they aren't looking for work. They are golden and usually a smart employer will do what they have to do to keep them around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    The new advanced ABO has a lot of information on it concerning business, which does address the needs of the industry today, but it still has questions on it relateing to moisture chamber glasses and other such rarely seen or done pairs of glasses or circumstances. I think a good optician needs to have the skills to perform the job (frame repairs, contact lens fitting and modification, and business management) our profession ahs changed to the point where our skills need to be more and more all encompasing. Serious question orangezero, if you will be the one who decides what the skill sets are going to be in your practice, why would you not want higher skilled employees or certified opticians. In any business eveyone wants the best of the best and they want it cheap. The difference is that I feel in many offices cheap is the focus, but in most cases the best will more than pull his weight in additional labor costs and the enviornment is easier for everyone to work in when your people know what they are doing. Wouldn't you agree?
    Oh course, ideally I'd want the most qualified person in all of the world :)

    Truth be told, when I graduated from optometry school, I was taught pretty much everything I would need to know to open up and office AND potentially be the only person in the office. I could pick out frames, inventory, fit contacts, adjust frames, prescribe, treat red eyes, monitor disease, etc. etc. etc. I know some OD try to stay away from the optical sales part of optometry, and its one reason retail is a bit more alluring to some.

    From the several optometry gurus I've read or personally talked with, they pretty much always recommend getting highly qualified people. Opticians especially. And in a big practice I think that makes sense. Have two or three ODs sending patients to a huge optical that has only highly skill opticians. You guys are worth your weight in gold. No problem with me believing that. However, in a two or three day a week practice with just one OD, I wonder whether an OD could afford to pay an optician what they feel they are worth.

    Any of you guys want to move to central Illinois and try it? I did put a post on here a few months back and didn't get a single reply. Thats another reason I think I'll have to go it on my own and teach from within, to a certain extent at least.

    I'd like to be able to tell you guys, "screw opticianry, go to optometry school so you can prescribe" but I don't think thats the answer to all this. Most ODs think there are too many ODs already. Thats why I doubt refracting would really do much for opticians. There are always going to be those that are successful, but there is a large minority (or maybe majority) that are going to not do so well in the optical industry. There is certainly a lot more competition now than in the past, or at least it seems that way from all I've seen and read. Or less, if you consider all of LUX as one company :)

  21. #46
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Dear Orangezero

    May the flees of a thousand camels infest your armpits!
    Remember, folks . . . . you hoid it here foist!
    The dawn of a new day . . . . the disposable optician.
    It's attitudes like that . . . that make me want to retain either a marketing firm or a hit man!
    I'd also love to march up and down in front of this guys office with a sandwich board that says: "This doctor has elected not to hire trained people!"
    This guy doesn't know what to do with qualified people because he believes qualified people cost too much and his limited sense of business acumen prevents him from developing a business any bigger than the width of his head! No scratch that . . . width of his ego!

  22. #47
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    And yes no matter what earlier opinions were expressed, it is possible to tell peripheral radii on spherical contact lenses with reasonalbl accuracy, if some one asks me, I'll tell them how.

    Chip
    You can do it, sure. That is, you can go through the motions... but prove its accuracy in 0.01mm increments? Hardly, unless you have some sort of magic radiuscope. But then again you are the one that doesn't need a trial set.

  23. #48
    Master OptiBoarder keithbenjamin's Avatar
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    ODs and MDs can choose to use corrective eyewear to supplement their practices, but their bread and butter lies elsewhere. Opticianry is 100% dependent on corrective lenses. The commoditization of corrective eyewear brought on by major chains, internet sales, automation, and manufacturing moves overseas (like it or not, all of which will continue to grow) will only further diminish the importance of opticianry. Opticianry will eventually go the way of the tailor, the cobbler, and the TV repair man. No amount of education, certification, or organization will change that, with the possible exception of refraction, but as orangezero points out there are plenty of folks out there that already do that. Orangezero's other point for many retails, personal skills are far more important in a dispenser than opticianry skills only serves to underscore that the change is already underway. While opticianry skills would be nice, in many cases they simply aren't cost effective as margins continue to shrink.

    Sorry to be so glum.

    -Keith

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan W View Post
    May the flees of a thousand camels infest your armpits!
    Remember, folks . . . . you hoid it here foist!
    The dawn of a new day . . . . the disposable optician.
    It's attitudes like that . . . that make me want to retain either a marketing firm or a hit man!
    I'd also love to march up and down in front of this guys office with a sandwich board that says: "This doctor has elected not to hire trained people!"
    This guy doesn't know what to do with qualified people because he believes qualified people cost too much and his limited sense of business acumen prevents him from developing a business any bigger than the width of his head! No scratch that . . . width of his ego!
    Lets see, you make fun of the size of my HEAD, my BUSINESS ACUMEN, my EGO, wish harm upon my ARMPITS and suggest a HITMAN (and gosh-forbid a marketing campagin) all in one post. How did you know I'm scared of FLEES?

    I think you should reread my posts again. You really misinterpret my meaning.

    Lest you forget, Optometry grew out of Opticianry. Its not an ego to openly announce what I spent a significant amount of money and went into a significant amount of debt learning to perfect. The things I can't or don't do probably wouldn't be done in the vast majority of optician-owned private offices as well. It just doesn't make good business sense in a lot of cases. Its rather insulting having opticians constantly complain about what we ODs can't do on this board, but no one seems to mind in the least. I think the truth is most ODs delegate the things they don't enjoy doing or can be done effectively by others. Running across one OD one time that doesn't do one thing doesn't mean it can't be done.

    Overlap is ok, it happens. Get over it. Its not a disservice to my patients to not have a "certified optician" in my office. I'm the certified-optician-type person. I've seen the study tests, I highly doubt I'd have a problem passing any of the certification tests. In fact, I would say a person I would hire would be trained better than most opticians after I got through with them (except most of the opticians on here of course ).

    I don't care whether or not an optician knows how to tell the peripheral curve of an RGP, or has every single PAL memorized, but I don't want to be "forced" to pay extra for help because they think thats a business asset to my office. I think most ODs feel this way. And I think it would be dishonest to tell all the young people reading that are looking to being an optician that all they need to do is learn how to solder frames, and fit RGPs and then suddenly they will be more likely to demand a higher salary. I don't think thats the case. That was my point.

    I usually rather modest until someone threatens to try to kill me :) I'm weird like that. Personal attacks should be frowned upon. PM me with how you really feel if you want, I'll send you my fax number to get your resume..... And you have no idea of my personal situation.

    Try to keep any anger management issues you may have out of optiboard discussions. I won't have to change my diaper as much then, all the sarcasm as can be included here.

    Thanks,

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithbenjamin View Post
    ODs and MDs can choose to use corrective eyewear to supplement their practices, but their bread and butter lies elsewhere. Opticianry is 100% dependent on corrective lenses. The commoditization of corrective eyewear brought on by major chains, internet sales, automation, and manufacturing moves overseas (like it or not, all of which will continue to grow) will only further diminish the importance of opticianry. Opticianry will eventually go the way of the tailor, the cobbler, and the TV repair man. No amount of education, certification, or organization will change that, with the possible exception of refraction, but as orangezero points out there are plenty of folks out there that already do that. Orangezero's other point for many retails, personal skills are far more important in a dispenser than opticianry skills only serves to underscore that the change is already underway. While opticianry skills would be nice, in many cases they simply aren't cost effective as margins continue to shrink.

    Sorry to be so glum.

    -Keith
    There's a lot in business that is glum now. Its an individual decision to succeed. One thing this board has done is made me realize all the extremely well educated opticians working in other areas besides commercial and private offices. I think in some cases the really smart ones (not to discredit those in the retail sector by any means) are more likely to be working for contact lens companies, huge optical labs, or research groups. That seems to be where the intellectual body of knowledge is headed, to more centralized locations.

    As much as I'd like it to be otherwise, America is definitely going toward streamlining and cutting the non-essentials. In a commercial establishment, unfortunately, all you need is some sucker to write a prescription and some sucker to put the money in the drawer. I certainly don't think is the best way to run things or help patients, but millions of people that cut out coupons every sunday would disagree

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