For Trivex, does it matter which brand/manufacturer you use?

[uluvbs]

(e.g., HOYA vs. Younger Optics)
Or are all of them pretty much the same?

[Chris Ryser]

Same lens material, but you have to cheeck out the different lenses.

[RT]

Although both companies license Trivex technology from PPG, there are chemical differences between Younger's Trilogy and HOYA's Phoenix. Among other things, the two offerings have different Abbe values.

[chip anderson]

Haven't you heard? Every product is better than everyone else's product, just ask sales and advertising.

[RT]

?

Chip: I've reread my previous post several times, and see nothing that indicates one product is better than another. I merely corrected an earlier post, which incorrectly asserted that the lens materials were identical. Facts may be boring, but they're occasionally useful.

The implication that any material differences are due to some purported need for marketing claims is equally incorrect. In fact, changes to the basic Trivex chemistry are engineering based--the changes help to improve production yields, which reduces the cost of materials.

There may be other differences related to the different chemistries that could possibly have an effect on how the end lens performs. There could be differences in how coatings adhere to a lens, the color or clarity of the lens, the aforementioned difference in Abbe value, tintability, and other factors. These differences may be very small and unnoticeable, others could be the basis for choosing one vendor over another for certain needs.

[Audiyoda]

There may be other differences related to the different chemistries that could possibly have an effect on how the end lens performs. There could be differences in how coatings adhere to a lens, the color or clarity of the lens, the aforementioned difference in Abbe value, tintability, and other factors. These differences may be very small and unnoticeable, others could be the basis for choosing one vendor over another for certain needs.

This is what the people at PPG told me at a conference: Anyone that licenses the Trivex material must follow the PPG formula with certain exceptions:
-Proprietary coatings
-Lens Design

That being said, the ABBE value differences from Hoya's product and younger's product is not even mentionable. Other differences include Younger offering an aspheric design in the SV Trilogy whereas Hoya only offers a spherical design. Hoya's hard coat is considered superior as it is matched Hoya's HiVision AR coating. There are other small differences, but those are the big ones. It's funny how each company suggests different approaches to finishing their respective lenses - I've finished Younger lenses using Hoya's method and Hoya lenses using Younger's method - either works just fine.

PPG patented the Trivex formula for a reason - consistancy. If a licensee doesn't follow the forumla within certain tolerances, PPG will pull the license.

[allanon]

Among other things, the two offerings have different Abbe values.

Sorta like 1.66 vs 1.67? Depends on your formula

[RT]

Audioyoda:

PPG actually licensed Trivex from Simula, then adapted the chemistry to ophthalmic use, and in turn licenses it to lens manufacturers. Thus it hardly seems likely they'd throw the handcuffs on lens companies who make tweaks to be able to produce the lenses at lower cost and sell more. PPG doesn't do any lens casting, they merely sell the raw ingredients. And they want to sell more raw ingredients. Either you misunderstood the PPG person, or they misspoke. Even www.ppgtrivex.com acknowledges different properties based on licensee.

I can assure you, the chemistries are indeed, different. Whether that's enough to choose one vendor over another is your call.

[Fezz]

RT-


From a manufacturing standpoint-does it make any difference?

I like trivex/phoenix/trilogy. I am using more and more of it. I have not seen any difference from an edging standpoint. I use Hoya and Younger.

[CEO]

RT's information is pretty darn correct.

[jjbons]

That being said, the ABBE value differences from Hoya's product and younger's product is not even mentionable. Other differences include Younger offering an aspheric design in the SV Trilogy whereas Hoya only offers a spherical design.

Audiyoda,

Your statement regarding single vision lens options is incorrect. HOYA offers single vision Phoenix lenses in both spherical and aspheric designs. This may not be true on Transitions products, but I can assure you that it is correct on clear product.

John

[KStraker]

Audiyoda,

Your statement regarding single vision lens options is incorrect. HOYA offers single vision Phoenix lenses in both spherical and aspheric designs. This may not be true on Transitions products, but I can assure you that it is correct on clear product.

John

I just ordered an aspheric trans trilogy from Hoya, so that one is definitely offered.

[RT]

If you ordered an aspheric Transitions "Trilogy" from your HOYA lab, it would have to be filled with Younger product. As jjbons noted, HOYA's aspheric Phoenix product is limited to clear only.

It gets confusing because in the US, HOYA is both a lens distributor and a lab network offering both HOYA and non-HOYA products. So whereas your HOYA lab can get you the product you ordered, it is not a HOYA product per se.

[Framebender]

Hoya Phoenix since it comes stock with Clarity. Its my understanding that transition Phoenix is now available. Will it be available with Hi Vision as well??

Thanks for you time and attention!

:cheers:

[KStraker]

If you ordered an aspheric Transitions "Trilogy" from your HOYA lab, it would have to be filled with Younger product. As jjbons noted, HOYA's aspheric Phoenix product is limited to clear only.

.

I'm glad I looked at the VSP service report because we ordered the wrong lens. I did not want aspheric. Hoya does make a spherical Phoenix Trans. We are getting it with Super HiVision.

[jjbons]

Framebender,

To the best of my knowledge there is no plan for HOYA to offer a Stock Phoenix Transitions with Hivision AR.

(In case you are wondering, I am employed by HOYA)

[KStraker]

Framebender,

To the best of my knowledge there is no plan for HOYA to offer a Stock Phoenix Transitions with Hivision AR.

(In case you are wondering, I am employed by HOYA)

Not to muddy the water too much, but according to the current lens book and my Hoya rep(Atl), Phoenix comes as a FSV with Hivision(as a stock lens). At least that's the answer they gave me. No disrespect intended. All I know is what they tell me.


oooops-I forgot we were talking about transitions, so disregard that..

[RT]

Yes, it comes as a CLEAR stock lens with HiVision. The Transitions Gray FSV (stock) only comes with a hard coat, and does not come in stock form with AR. You can, of course, request your lab to put an AR coat on it, but you can't pull it raw out of the envelope that way.

[EdSheridan]

Has anyone noticed a difference in the flexibility of the 2 products? (Hoya vs. Younger)...I don't have a lot of experience with X-cell's version of the product, but in my experience, Younger's product is more flexablle than Hoya's when you grind it really thin with a small B?\...On the similar but related note that should probablly be put on a separate thread....Has anyone had a problem with the hardcoat cracking on PolyTrans ground thin with small b measurements...(outside hardcoat under the Trans)...it seems to be a new thing...I don't know if anything has changed in the way they make these lenses, or maybe the frames are starting to show us the things we need to work on. It's funny how much the drill mounts taught us about edging axis and slippage....Seem like the sharp cornered groove mounts and small b measurement are teaching us now...

Missing those P-3 zyls,

Ed