I use (have used) one and I reccomend it.
I use (have used) one and I don't reccomend it.
I have not used one but I like the idea of it.
I have not used one and I don't like the idea of it.
I am planning on opening a second location in the near future. We currently have a one-hour lab format with Gerber/Coburn equipment. Our volume will go up dramatically. Please give me your opinions on bringing some sort of AR coater into one of our labs. We would probably coat 15-20 jobs per week.
I have looked a Chemalux. Sounds a bit wierd. Has anybody had any personal experience with this product?
For 15-20 jobs a week I would use outside Quality coating!
When you go to 40-50 jobs a day you can purchase one!
As soon as I can apply Alize in house, I'll start doing it.
As EFW indicated, anything less than a premium A/R coat would be a step backwards in my opinion. The expense of putting a Crizal coating system is going to be the downfall of many a small operation. Chris..
AR is a picky thing. It really has to be done right or else it can become a nightmare. Honestly, I would not do it if it were free to me.
I am interested in the two people who said they do it and recommend it have to say.
It has been pointed out before that the equipment being used for coating is not proprietary to any one company. Correct me if I am wrong but the chemicals being used and possibly the equipment are being branded. The features of these branded coatings that are repeatedly mentioned here have been available in Asia prior to their introduction in the US market. The prices for these features in Asia are significantly less than the branded names sold in the US.Originally Posted by FVCCHRIS
Doc
Doc
We have a new scratch resistant coating which has attracted the interest of a number lens vendors in Asia. Send me an email and I will send you a technical product bulletin. Since this is not a product thread I do not want to post details.
The process of AR coating is not proprietary, nor are the chemicals or process. However the devil is in the details. To make a good product you have to pay attention to all the small details. I have seen some coatings boil off in in 1 - 2 boils. The industry (Colts lab) standard is 6 boils. A good AR coat should be able to do 18+ boils.
The biggest cost in the US and across the world is marketing and positioning your brand. The Asian guys can do AR for $1.00 a pair because they also have other incentives, like Government subsidies etc. However usually their AR will boil of in 1 or 2 dips.
What does this mean to your customers? It means that the AR coating is soft and has not adhered well to the surface of the lens. when your customers take it home and start rubbing it with their rags, towels, etc, it will come off pretty easily.
Find a good coater and do not bring AR in house for 15-20 jobs per week. For 100 JPD it may make some sense, but less than that is suicidal.
The chemat system does not work at the wholesale level. The colors are inconsistant. You may get by with that at the retail level if you chose.
We have never had any trouble with colours, our customers would let us know if we did. We've had no more trouble with it coming off than with any other AR. The big thing to remember with any AR system is to follow directions exactly.
P.S. We are a wholsale lab.
Jacqui
How long are you using it?
Do you use it for all materials?
How many pairs a day?
Thanks
We've been using it about 1 1/2 years +/-. We use it on all materials, however some brands (especially Essilor) drive us crazy. 2 - 20 pairs per day.
It is hard to know where to start on the above statement. First, I assume you are referring to China regarding government subsidies. Perhaps in the agricultural sector this exists (like in the US and Europe) but 100% this does not occur in my sector. Secondly, where do you think the bulk of the stock AR coated lenses are coming from for the US market? I can tell you that the bulk are coming from China, Korea and Taiwan. I know for a fact which famous, multinationals are outsourcing in Asia and which factories they are using. I think it is unfair for you to pass such a deragatory statement.
Some factories manufacture product for the US market, others for the Korean and Japanese market. These would be more expensive, higher grade product. Then there is product that is lower quality that typically sells in less developed markets. The problem arises when an importer wants the real A grade product for C grade pricing. This is when quality issues will occur and there is no convincing someone when the only thing they have on their mind is price. You get what you pay for.
Doc
You get what you pay for..........................
Actually you can go on the websites of these multinational corporations in the optical trade and can find that just about 100% of their lens production comes out of Asia,
When are we starting to understand that a product made and purchased in Asia cost's, lets assume $ 1.00.
1) If you purchase directly from the source that will be the price
2) If you purchase from a single importing distributor it might be $ 2.50, which includes his profit.
3} If you purchase from a multinational corporation you will pay at least the price they charged you..........before they shifted to all the new sources in Asia.
You can now do the mathematics yourself, and then you will understand why they can afford to sell their products to a Costco and W-Mart and other large customers at a fraction of what you pay.
Furthermore when there was only glass lenses, AR coatings had a tendence to stay for a much longer time span than they do on plastic lenses out of multiple reasons.
Only if you own a Star Trek style transporter, and can get the lenses from Asia to your location for free.1) If you purchase directly from the source that will be the price
RT
Jaqcui:
what trouble do you have with essilor lenses? i use the same a/r on them, I don't think I am having much trouble with them.
I don't know what the problem is. It just seems that every time there is a problem lens it's an Essilor. Fortunately we use very, very few of them (we would rather not use any).
Why should your transporter be free. If you buy lenses from Asia you can also find normal transporters for a fee that transposes to a couple of cents per lens.
American companies have forever been afraid to purchase out side their local circle.
I ship to the USA on a daily basis out of Canada and years ago we had to introduce a system so that the customer would not even realize that he purchased from outside the US. We incorporated the customs clearance into the price, took care of that matter and the merchandise arrived at the destination by UPS as if it was purchased in New York.
Chris,
It is funny that you brought this up. I spoke to several US companies (multi store operations) recently who purchase a sizeable amount of product from a distributor on a monthly basis. Based on their product usage my company could save them 30-60% on their stock lenses and Rx lenses even with shipping costs calculated into the price. The number one reason they were reluctant to order from us was fear: fear of importing and fear of ordering overseas. They never imported before and believed it would be difficult and they also believed there was less risk then ordering from a local supplier.
Some companies seem to focus exclusively on bringing in more business and ignore areas that they have direct control over which is cost of goods.
Doc
What options do I have if I want to set up an AR coating facility in my business? Materials, equipment, costs?
It sounds like you are further down the line than me - what problems/issues can I expect in setting up and AR caoting facility - materials, equipment, costs ?
What is the typical cost of an AR coating /lens?
Once you own the equipment needed, have some expierienced help who knows what they are doing. the material cost should not even be discussed in this forum open to the public and the thread should be moved to "For Professionals" only.
You can try the Chemlux system, I had good luck with it others have not. I had mine in a climate controlled room and followed direction exactly.
A Satis SP200 is the next step up. It is a sputter type unit made for smaller labs. $500,000+
Most larger labs use ion gun type machines Zeiss, Satis, Optovision, etc. $1,000,000+
The big cost on AR coating is labour.
Basically I think it is a good idea and the process is very nice for small labs, but its final performance cannot be compared with a vacuum AR in terms of scratch resistance and overall protection.
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