Egads! Costco can't be serious!

[Johns]

COSTCO is the EVIL EMPIRE!!!

:angry:

No, really they aren't...

There's in nothing evil about someone being smarter than you and figuring out a way to make a ton of money, unless they are doing something illegal.

It would be evil if they were fitting glasses on people, and everyone was driving off the road because they couldn't see. Where's the uproar from the customers? I don't see it.

DRK said "Shame on us all..." I agree, but for different reasons. Shame on us for being lazy and not changing with the times. Shame on us for wanting the customers to keep coming through the front doors waving money -without investing in the future; whether it's marketing, technology, or other updates. Shame on us for blaming the mega corporations that are doing what we would love to do.

I often have evil thoughts about these big competitors, but I really don't see anything sinsister or evil about them.

And when it comes right down to it. Even if they were evil, they wouldn't be REALLY evil until they moved into your neighborhood. (They're already in mine...)

[drk]

Shame on us, yes, if you want, for not providing creative, forward-thinking vision care.

Our goal cannot be money, primarily. Our goal has to transcend that. That's where greatness occurs, by almost any definition.

[Johns]

Shame on us, yes, if you want, for not providing creative, forward-thinking vision care.

Our goal cannot be money, primarily. Our goal has to transcend that. That's where greatness occurs, by almost any definition.

No, money cannot be our primary goal, but there's no way you'll be able to provide "creative, forward-thinking vision care" without it.

If your profits plummet because you can't compete w/ Costco or WM, and you cannot maintain an adequate staff and/or update your equipment, who does that help?

It is easier to achieve greatness when you have the proper resources.

[Bill West]

I think I may be the Pollyanna of the world, here, but whatever happened to the concept that lens manufacturers, wholesale labs, and eye care professionals are in the business of vision care?
VISION CARE IS PROVIDED BY FOLK WHO LIKE TO MAKE MONEY!

Whatever happened to the concept that the lens manufacturers support professional dispensing...that is, no profit-first-patient-second behavior? Does essilor or CZV give a rat's !!! that their "economically defendable" sweetheart deals propagate commercial opticals? Aren't commercial opticals bad? Aren't "McTicians" bad? Isn't "dumbed-down" bad?
I MUST HAVE MISSED THIS CONCEPT SOMEHOW!

Where are the ethics, vision, and leadership? Yeah, I know, "Who cares about that in this day and age?" "Look at the market share of the chains. Let's get a piece of that. The customers can't be wrong. Give 'em what they want."
ALL THREE ARE TIED UP IN MONEY, OD'S AND MD'S HAVE BEEN DOING IT THAT WAY AS A GROUP AS FAR BACK AS I GO, 47 YEARS. WHY DO YOU SELL EYEGLASSES AND NOT JUST PROVIDE A HEALTHY EYE EXAM!

Well, if we were in the US Shoe business, I guess that philosophy would hold water. BUT I'M HERE TO REMIND SOME that we are health care professionals, and the manufacturers make health care products. NOT SHOES.
LUX SOLD OFF THE SHOE PART AND CONCENTRATE ON "HEALTH CARE" HA HA! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Being a health care professional means TAKING RESPONSIBILITY, for the individual, for the profession, for the public health system in general.
TRY DOING IT WITHOUT MAKING MONEY!

I think that the lens manufacturers ought to reexamine their mission statements, and realize that they are driving the eye care delivery system more than they want to take responsibility for.
MORE EXPENSIVE LENSES MEAN MORE $$$$ AT THE BOTTOM LINE.

No one can tell me that chain medicine, opticianry, dentistry, or optometry is good for the public health system. Sure, maybe better access at 7 p.m. in the mall. Sure, maybe better walk-in ability. But the chains are no better than a "doc in the box" at an urgent care center or going to the ER when you have a cold.
I GOT NEWS FOR YOU ALL DOCTORS ARE EXPENSIVE AND THEY CRY ALL THE TIME ABOUT LIABILITY INSURANCE ALL THE WHILE LIVING IN MILLION $$ HOMES AND DRIVING $$$$ CARS, GET REAL.

The bottom line is that if short sighted optical giants want to squash professional optical, then we're ALL going to suffer. I'm sure Mr. CEO of CZV gets his eyecare from a professional, yet he'll cut his throat behind the scenes in the name of profit. Irresponsible, I say.
THEY WANT TO PROMOTE IT AND MAKE MORE $$$$, THIS ALSO BLEEDS DOWN TO WE PEONS IF WE KNOW HOW TO CAPTILIZE ON IT,RIGHT JOHN!

Costco's 5% margin in optical concept can rot in !!!!. You CANNOT independently maintain high quality at non-existent margins in a drastically service-heavy health care industry. Shame on them for doing it "because they can". That's not a good excuse. Thanks for *******izing eye care, Costco.
THEY MAKE IT WORK EXTREMLY WELL, WELL ENOUGH TO START THEIR OPTICAL MANAGERS AT 52K, HOW MANY OD'S OR MD'S PAY THIS WELL? GREAT BENEFITS ALSO.

And, while we're at it, shame on all of us. Shame on us for not standing up for our professional ethics and letting "the dollar" rule our career choices. Opticians and optometrists working in chains *******ize their own profession (and have 1,000,000 good excuses for doing so).
THIS IS PURE CRAP, SORRY YOU ARE BLOWING SMOKE.

Money trumps ethics in this society in this time. Enjoy the fruits.

WE ALL,THE LUCKY ONES,DO.:cheers:

[CME4SPECS]

drk, sorry you've been in the dark for so long about Costco. They may be new to your neighborhood, but not mine. I've been in this location for almost 15 years, and I believe the nearest Costco had an optical at that time.
There are many different ways to make money in this business. High end, low end, and somewhere in the middle. Buy one get one. Insurance, no insurance. Discounts, no discounts. Mega store, solo store. We all make our choices about how we want to proceed in our businesses. Lens manufactures and frame manufacturers are in the business for one purpose, and one purpose only...to make money. That is why I'm in business. And If anyone that is in business for any other reason is full of crap. Otherwise, you'd go work as a volenteer for free in some 3rd world country.
Sure you want to provide the best care you can for your paitents, that's good business and will make you more money. That is a choice that you make. Discounters such as Costco simply take a different approach. They attract a certain clientle, and so do you. They are not going to run you out of business, if you are providing quality care to your patients.

[Johns]

You may consider buying a little smarter if your margins are what you say they are. I would be embarrassed to report such a figure.

I don't believe DRK mentioned his profit margin. You may want to read the posts from the start. I think you may have confused it with what Wild Bill inserted into the quote.

;)

[CME4SPECS]

I do confuse easily!

[Johns]

I do confuse easily!

Welcome to the club!:cheers:

[Barry Santini]

Well as far as I can tell:
Neither hospitals, pharmacies, or Drs are really makin' the money they expected.

Shouldn't we finnaly get rid of the "health/medical" connotation for eyewear? maybe we'll all make more money!

Give it a try!

barry

[Johns]

Well as far as I can tell:
Neither hospitals, pharmacies, or Drs are really makin' the money they expected.

Shouldn't we finnaly get rid of the "health/medical" connotation for eyewear? maybe we'll all make more money!

Give it a try!

barry

I make it a point to DISassociate myself from the "medical" part of the eyewear. We are a STORE, and I'm not embarrassed to say it. Nobody shops at an eye doctors office. Eye doctor's office are places you HAVE to go, stores are places you want to go!

(When was the last time you went to a podiatrist's office for a pair of nice looking shoes ?)

[cocoisland58]

[quote=Fezz;173728]Be careful here. I believe that most, if not all, Costco opticians must have a ABO certificate. quote]


An ABO cert means nothing without experience to back it up. You can get an ABO without ever touching a lens. But kudos to Costco for hiring certified opticians. Their frame selection is a bit outdated and the place echoes. It's bare bones, no fringe stuff. I have never felt threatened by the big boys except for contacts and basically they can have them.

[Audiyoda]

I think I may be the Pollyanna of the world, here, but whatever happened to the concept that lens manufacturers, wholesale labs, and eye care professionals are in the business of vision care?

Whatever happened to the concept that the lens manufacturers support professional dispensing...that is, no profit-first-patient-second behavior? Does essilor or CZV give a rat's !!! that their "economically defendable" sweetheart deals propagate commercial opticals? Aren't commercial opticals bad? Aren't "McTicians" bad? Isn't "dumbed-down" bad?

Where are the ethics, vision, and leadership? Yeah, I know, "Who cares about that in this day and age?" "Look at the market share of the chains. Let's get a piece of that. The customers can't be wrong. Give 'em what they want."

Well, if we were in the US Shoe business, I guess that philosophy would hold water. BUT I'M HERE TO REMIND SOME that we are health care professionals, and the manufacturers make health care products. NOT SHOES.

Being a health care professional means TAKING RESPONSIBILITY, for the individual, for the profession, for the public health system in general.

I think that the lens manufacturers ought to reexamine their mission statements, and realize that they are driving the eye care delivery system more than they want to take responsibility for.

No one can tell me that chain medicine, opticianry, dentistry, or optometry is good for the public health system. Sure, maybe better access at 7 p.m. in the mall. Sure, maybe better walk-in ability. But the chains are no better than a "doc in the box" at an urgent care center or going to the ER when you have a cold.

The bottom line is that if short sighted optical giants want to squash professional optical, then we're ALL going to suffer. I'm sure Mr. CEO of CZV gets his eyecare from a professional, yet he'll cut his throat behind the scenes in the name of profit. Irresponsible, I say.

Costco's 5% margin in optical concept can rot in !!!!. You CANNOT independently maintain high quality at non-existent margins in a drastically service-heavy health care industry. Shame on them for doing it "because they can". That's not a good excuse. Thanks for *******izing eye care, Costco.

And, while we're at it, shame on all of us. Shame on us for not standing up for our professional ethics and letting "the dollar" rule our career choices. Opticians and optometrists working in chains *******ize their own profession (and have 1,000,000 good excuses for doing so).

Money trumps ethics in this society in this time. Enjoy the fruits.

So let me ask you doctor - you said that Costco's prices were below your acquisition cost...I'm guessing by not much. I checked my lab price list and my acquisition cost is about $10 below Costco's retail. So my guess is your acquisition +/- $10 from their retail. Are you selling those lenses to your patient's for $10 over your cost of goods? You want the great deal from the manufacturers, are you willing to give the great deal to your patients? In the name of responsible healthcare of course.

I'm assuming you charge a fair price on your exams - maybe around $40? $40 is well worth your 30 minutes I would guestimate. And in the name of responsible healthcare I'm sure you sell your frames for 10-15% above acquisition cost - your patient's must love you!

Or do you want these great prices because you still want to charge $100 for that 30 minute exam, continue to mark up frames 2.5 times and have even more margin on your lenses?

[HarryChiling]

And, while we're at it, shame on all of us. Shame on us for not standing up for our professional ethics and letting "the dollar" rule our career choices. Opticians and optometrists working in chains *******ize their own profession (and have 1,000,000 good excuses for doing so).

Drk, I am glad opticians are now professionals in your eyes. Too bad it took a COSTCO moving into your neighborhood for you to realize that. You may want to start treating your good staff as assets of the business and maybe help them to get certified. I will give some figures that are crazy, in my state their are only 5-6 Certified Master Opticians. They don't come cheap and they are dedicated to their profession. Can you imagine the edge you would have by employing one in your business? Differentiate yourself, stop selling ovations, start selling younger image for example (you can show your patients the Sheedy report and tell them that this is your offices exclusive lens choice because you will not consider comprimising optics) it also comes in a variety of materials and options. Have one of your employees go to COSTCO and secret shop them find out prices and selection. Certify all your employees in the areas that they are working. Call your lab rep and sit them down to go over the prices of the neighboring opticals, explain to them that because all your staff is certified that you expect better prices due to lower remakes, tell them that you want a rock bottom price on one lens design (like the image) and that you want the deepest discount on this lens (ask for prices with warranty and without like previously mentioned you would be suprised). Good luck and if you have any questions I could help with let me know.

[Judy Canty]

Slow down guys. DRK has always regarded Opticians as eyecare professionals. You need only go back through the many conversations in which he has participated to see that. OD bashing won't increase anyone's respect on this board.

[eyesonyou]

Ovation CR39: $89.99/ pair
Ovation poly: $99.99/pair
AR coating: $29.99


What the #$%% is going on here!? That's below my acquisition cost![/quote]

[rolandclaur]

After reading this thread, I'm frankly a little scared to post,but I would like to offer some insight if I may.


In terms of the optical department of Costco, the optical department accounts for less than 1 percent of the total profit made by the company as a whole. I've been privy to the margins that are made by Costco, and some of the items are insanely low.

I firmly believe that Costco does not intend to run independents out of the ground, The majority of Costco's clientele are in fact middle to upper class. They appreciate designer brands, elegant styles, etc. Our dispensary is kept as bare, simplistic, and minimal as possible. We don't do any type of custom jobs like RXable sunglasses, goggles, tricky prescriptions, slab off's etc. I also believe that the optical department is there mainly as a professional service to Costco's members.

I believe that I have a lot to bring to the company as far as my optical background and experience goes. And believe me, when I cannot help a member out with something they are looking for, the first thing I do is recommend them to an independent optical store where I know the opticians there can cater to their specific needs. I myself have worked at over 10 different Costco locations, and each location has business cards of independent optical stores all over San Diego that the opticians will hand out to members who are looking for something that we cannot offer. And I have never gotten spoken to, reprimanded, or written up because i recommened a "competitor" to a member, which i am more than happy to do any time of day. In fact, the only companies that we actually price shop and compare are against Wal-Mart and Sam's Club.

If you guys have any questions for me, I'll do my best to answer them. And if William Walker is out there, just want to say hello from a fellow Costco optical employee

[MarcE]

Dr K,
I don't think you are being fair to the independent optometrists that work at chain stores. They are independent business owners, like you. And unlike most most Dr's that own their optical, they do not cap and steer. It could become a law someday that it is illegal for an O.D. to own their optical for ethical reasons. My own experience is that the independent Wal-Mart O.D. is ethical. The other 2 "independents" that own their own optical in town are very much less so.

DrK, I have a solution to your Costco problem. Just write "Phoenix lens by Hoya. No substitutions" on every Rx. Costco can't get it. That was a sarcastic remark. I hope no one here would do that. But the SOB "independent" O.D. across the street from me does it.

Optical is so very fortunate to have been insulated from the price pressures of large chains. The previous poster was right. Small Grocery stores are gone. Camera stores are gone. Local computer stores are gone. Independent pharmacies are almost gone, so are the locally owned video stores. It's not inconcievable that the local optical will be gone in the future. Essilor will still be around, though, spending your money.

[MarcE]

I saw a couple of post quoting wholesale prices.

[Bill West]

you can call selling eyewear any thing you want, but we are.....

RETAIL OPTICAL STORES

[drk]

Thanks for the support, Judy and others.

I think you'd say I was a "good guy": have always had licensed professionals on staff, have industry standard pricing (not unfair to competition or patients), support opticianry when I can.

What I am learning on this thread is interesting. While I understand that I represent all the unethical things other ODs may have done past, present, and future, I'm trying to think about what's best.

You are a very practical bunch. I'm rather suprised at the particular balance between business ethics and professional ethics that the responses imply.

Granted, a million-dollar-a-year cataract surgeon can afford all the ethics he wants. And a six-figure-plus OD can afford a little ethics, as well. An only "decent wage-earning" optician may feel a little more economic pressure to test those ethics! Unfortunately, ethics gets a sliding scale depending on circumstances. That's called "situational ethics" or "consequentialism".

But remember, my initial point was the business mentality and the lack of professional mentality of the well-heeled lens manufacturers. They want to prosper in a medical field, but they want to be able to do it with cut-throat business methods. Are they supporting their "customers", and the health care industry in general? I'm worrying that they don't.

I am by no means a paragon of virtue myself, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize that the virtue exists. Whatever happened to professionalism, i.e., the desire to put the patient's welfare first and foremost, and let the economics work themselves out? I'm not talking about charity, I'm talking about a fair deal.

I don't accuse anyone in particular, here, of putting profits before patients. I am dismayed at the practices of those in our industry (if, indeed, we can even loosely say that we are in the same industry). I would think that a bigger picture could be seen.

I would think that all could agree that something as involved as vision care is unable to be dumbed down to the point of mass-merchandized, low-margin, low-skilled or no-skilled care. I'm suprised that some here respect Costco for finding a way to essentially sell medical devices with the same aplomb as catsup.

I'm suprised at the suggestion that divorce from the medical aspects of eye care is the correct path for opticianry. I'm sure that state legislatures would be interested in that viewpoint from within your profession.

As always, I support opticianry. But I only support a certain type of opticianry: a professional opticianry that has irreplaceable value and supports the big picture of the greater good, and isn't simply out for a buck. I hold my profession to that same standard.

Heck, I went into healthcare specifically to avoid having to "earn a buck" every day instead of "helping people". I'm doing just fine with that, thanks. I know many of you do the same. Let's "take the high road", but let's also have the courage to "call a spade a spade."

Don't get beat down!!

[Chris Ryser]

DrK, I have a solution to your Costco problem. Just write "Phoenix lens by Hoya. No substitutions" on every Rx. Costco can't get it. That was a sarcastic remark. I hope no one here would do that. But the SOB "independent" O.D. across the street from me does it.
.

That is very comparable to what the ophthalmologist did to me last week by telling the license office to put me through a driving test because I did not want to spend $ 5,000 at his office.

[drk]

In terms of the optical department of Costco, the optical department accounts for less than 1 percent of the total profit made by the company as a whole. I've been privy to the margins that are made by Costco, and some of the items are insanely low.

I firmly believe that Costco does not intend to run independents out of the ground,

Thanks for posting, Roland.

If the optical is such a low profit endeavor, why does Costco bother?

Yes, Costco is low margin all-around, and apparently the sum of the parts makes the "whole" work for them. They seem to be using optical services as a "member benefit" or "calling card". And, for that, I say that they are *******izing optical.

How the heck does opticianry and optometry allow, let alone participate in, a bunch of Costco non-professional execs creating a loss-leading, margin-dropping (read: professional service eliminating) cancer that goes against everything we stand for?

The sad, disappointing fact is the pathetic weakness of the AOA and your professional organizations to lobby and make such stuff illegal.

Who has the lower opinion of the value of optical care? The public, the legislatures, the mass-merchandizer executives, or those within the professions?

Maybe you all have been voted, in effect, retailers, by the marketplace. Shame.

[Johns]

.

I'm suprised at the suggestion that divorce from the medical aspects of eye care is the correct path for opticianry. I'm sure that state legislatures would be interested in that viewpoint from within your profession.

In regards to the seperation of the medical from opticianry, I was refering to that as a purely marketing stance. I don't believe that an optician in a lab coat has the automatic onfidence of the consumer just because he's trying to project a more medical image.

On the other hand, if they are attracted to my "store" because of it's funky look, cool styles, and great service, I then have more opportunities to show them the important part of our profession- our skills. People come for the "cool" but send others because of the quality and proffessionalism.

We've been beaten over the head by OD's and MDs with the mantra "you're not medical, you're not medical..." And really, except for those of us that fit CLs, it's not medical. It's really more mechanical (although I don't want to be know as a machinist either).

Another reason for my wanting to distance myself from the medical image is that everyone has been brainwashed into thinking that if it's medical then...
1. It's my right to have it.
2. I shouln't have to pay for it, or at least not more than a cop-pay.

I have a lot of people come up and say that I'm succesfull because "sooner or later everyone needs glasses". Well, they don't need all the bells and whistles on them, and they don't need to buy them from me. Projecting a retail image is one way to make sure that many people do choose me to be their eyewear provider. That's not to say that I don't try to get as much information as I can, as a means of making myself a better optician. The state legislatures would be please to know that while the state requires 20 hours of CEUs (8/12), last year I had over 65 hrs, and 20 of those hours were specifically for ODs & MDs. (I learned they complain just as much as opticians about taking CEUs)

It's not just opticians that are changing their images. I don't think Snowmonster (Steve), another OD on the board, would mind telling you that I saw his office, and it looks like something out of SoHo. Very classy, very trendy,very retail, and very hip. I'm guessing that given the area you practice in, your place (Drk) is similar to his.

I didn't respond to Judy's rush to your defense because my previous posts show that I consider you and many of the other ODs on this board "brothers in arms". The only difference between us is that opticians are fortunate enough not to have to do exams! I like to save my "bashing" for the companies that are "bashing" my ability to make a decent living.

[Johns]

On an even more basic level...

How many of you that are wringing you hands over WM and Costco but still shop there ?

I am constantly asking opticians and other small business owners, and they all say that while they don't really like the place, and they "hardly" ever shop there, they do on occasion "run in" for a few items.

My motto is, "If that's the only place I can buy it, then I don't need it.

Well, you don't have to shop in their opticals to support them...

[Nettie]

Thanks for posting, Roland.

If the optical is such a low profit endeavor, why does Costco bother?

Yes, Costco is low margin all-around, and apparently the sum of the parts makes the "whole" work for them. They seem to be using optical services as a "member benefit" or "calling card". And, for that, I say that they are *******izing optical.

How the heck does opticianry and optometry allow, let alone participate in, a bunch of Costco non-professional execs creating a loss-leading, margin-dropping (read: professional service eliminating) cancer that goes against everything we stand for?

The sad, disappointing fact is the pathetic weakness of the AOA and your professional organizations to lobby and make such stuff illegal.

Who has the lower opinion of the value of optical care? The public, the legislatures, the mass-merchandizer executives, or those within the professions?

Maybe you all have been voted, in effect, retailers, by the marketplace. Shame.

Professional service eliminating??? Drop in sometime and then judge. After 13 years in this business and working for several different independants, I will very happily retire with Costco. The service I provide is outstanding and very professional. I am sorry you are so bitter. And I am getting a little tired of all the Costco bashing.....thanks to those of you who did not participate in the name calling and insults.