Egads! Costco can't be serious!

[Barry Santini]

But that's kind of my point, Barry. That, and the fact that it would still "cost" a lot more to sell to thousands of businesses buying one product at a time than it would to sell to one business buying thousands of products at a time.

I see your point, Darryl. But...it is still a situation where...if ecps DID NOT BUY the products that are carried in the chains....AT ALL....*that* would be of considerable consequence to the manufacturers. In the end, the 8% Costco margin will not affect ECPs with large *skill sets*.

They're (COSTCO, et al) just the McDonalds of eyewear. Not that that is a bad thing...

As I state in all my LASIK/Refractive surgery presentations:

"If the general public were so discriminating, McDonald's wouldn't be so popular!"

ECP's should cultivate and grow *discriminating* clients. In this respect, I thank g** every day that Lencrafters is soooo successful with their "buy 'em-try 'em' - trade'em - return 'em" campaign.

It *weeds* out those clients who are never happy with their eyewear from walk'in in my door!

Good dialogue!

Barry

[Barry Santini]

It's the economy and it's smart shopping that is driving folks to the mass merchandisers.

And what did camera stores rely upon to keep their prices high? "Individualized attention/service" and "expertise." Instead, what they got was consumers who became better educated, shopped for value, and purchased at the mass merchandiser, now the major outlet for film processing and cameras.

But I was there (in that industry as a consultant). The end of *fair trade* laws doomed the Indie camera store.

Welcome to the land of opportunity...as long as some large corporation is the one makin' all the money!

Barry

[OptiRook]

It's called capitalism, and independents thrive on it. But being independent means being savvy about your business. Independents don't need to be swallowed up by big business, just know their niche and "capitalize" on it.

[k12311997]

Most other things in Costco are not half to a third of other retailers. To the consumer you buy in bulk a 5lb tub of mayo but not 5 pairs of glasses to recieve the benefits.

Essilor is having a dinner meeting at Morton's of Chicago in Pittsburgh to convince me and other local opticians to sell Physio . I'm going for the free meal. If I recommend something it is because I've seen it work or, I've read posts on Optiboard and the product is well recieved. The more a product is marketed to me the less likely I'm to use it, if it is so good why the hard sell.

Pete thanks for dinner it was nice to meet you. The physio comp I got is on one of my employee's mother right now If I wanted to use her as a guinea pig what are the comparable lenses out there?? Creation ?? what else ?? Digitally created but not digitally surfaced.

[Nettie]

I love working in my POLE BARN.
Costco is a great company and after 13 years in my career as an Optician(4 years at Costco) I wouldn't dream of working anywhere else.

[Speedyspecs]

There is a concept called "economies of scale". If you want to understand this concept (and every business owner should), check out Milton Friedman's series "Free to Choose".

In the book, he asks how much it costs to make a standard #2 wood pencil. The fact is that if you or I tried to make one pencil, the cost would be in the tens of thousands. We would have to cut the tree, mill the wood, hollow out the center, mine the lead, manufacture the rubber for the eraser, mine the tin for the eraser holder, etc. However, you can go to Wally World and buy a 12 pack for $1.50. Why?

Because somebody had an idea to mass-manufacture pencils. They invested millions in equipment, labor, and materials in order to make "economies of scale" work for them.

It is the same for our business. If Lenscrafters puts in a full surfacing lab in a mall and sells one pair of eyewear, how much did that pair cost them? Appx. $200,000. If they sell 25 pairs per day for ten years, it spreads the cost of the lab gear, the employees, the rent, etc. very thin. Thus "economies of scale". It is always more profitable to sell quantity.
That is why Essilor or Zeiss will sell 5,000 pair of 6 base 2.25 add poly Pal's to Costco for $6/pair, and then turn around and sell 5 pair to me at $30/pair. I then have two choices. I can fail and blame Essilor's price policies for my failure, or I can find my own niche in the market, find my own creative solutions to patient's needs, and make a good living. I choose the latter. Yes, buying groups help.

Oh, and before anybody claims that I live in an isolated market, my optician-owned independent retail store is located across the street from a Super Wal-Mart. The month their optical opened, my business doubled. Why? Service, selection, friendly knowledgeable service, decent competitive pricing, etc. We regularly get Rx's from the Wal-Mart O.D., and I consider their optical manager to be my friend.

BTW, I buy my boxers at WM. I have a little dig we say sometimes at my store. I wear WM underwear, but not WM eyewear. "WM belongs on your butt, not your face." Just kidding Wal-Mart employees.;) I used to work for Sam's.

[drk]

All this capitalism talk is well and good.

However, there are consequences to actions. Lens manufacturers have to realize that they may put the independent out of business with these "sweeheart deals". Nobody is putting a gun to their heads.

Strategically, they can choose who to favor, and it will affect the future. Choose wisely, Essilor and Carl Zeiss Vision.

[Johns]

That's only because people do not WANT eyewear, they perceive it as a medically-based need.

If we don't change this...we're all doomed.

For my money...Movie concession prices are way over priced!

barry

You will alway make more $$ on "wants", rather than on needs.

Nobody "needs" progressives, designer frames, nor contact leneses. Those are all wants.

Movie concessions are high for the same reason, they are WANTS, not needs.

[NavyChief]

FYI
Shoppers in optical and pharmacy don't have to have a membership, since they are state regulate entities. Applies to alcohol purchases, too.

[Johns]

I disagree with you on this Darryl. Even if all the ECPs banded to together, they would'nt get a price break..

because their egos and preferences would prevent them on agreeing one what "one" lens type they would negogiate. Thererfore...NO CONSEQUENCE!
barry

Truly "Banding together" would mean that the egos and preferences wouldn't be an issue.

That'll never happen...

Too many of the O's want to be like the diner I stopped at in Philly a few years ago. Their menu was 14 pages long!! You can't offer every product that every rep coming through the door offers you! You'll have no power to negotiate at all. You can't be everything to everyone.

Costco has chosen their lenses based on two issues: 1. Cost 2. Relative success of the fit base on that cost.

Sure, the lens doesn't work for everyone, but it probably works on a lot of them or they wouldn't be using it.

Find a lens with a good price, good optics and similar designs to what you're using now. Go to your lab and ask "What if I were to use this lens almost exclusively, and you can keep the warranty ? What kind of pricing can I get?"

The results will floor you! (It will also make your current lens reps cringe when they find out you're getting the same results from "inferior" (their words) products.

It's a new world out there, and it take a whole different approach to it to stay in the game.

[Fezz]

It's a new world out there, and it take a whole different approach to it to stay in the game.

I think what Johns said here is KEY! The game is constantly changing, rules are made, broken, and rewriting at breakneck speeds. The only thing an independent has to stay in the game is the relative small scale that we do business. We can add new lines, get funky, go wrap, go rimless, tint every lens, change price, BOGO sales, etc.....at a drop of the hat! We do not have the clutter and chain of command and red tape to make changes like the Big Boys. Do something different, do it quickly and change!

[Johns]

Pete thanks for dinner it was nice to meet you. The physio comp I got is on one of my employee's mother right now .

Hmm...I sure wish we could figure out why some products cost more than others...


I just can't figure this out! I'm sure that even though Costco pays less for the lenses, that Essilor takes all their opticians out to dinner, and gives them all comp physio lenses too... So, I'm sure THAT"S not the reason independents pay so much.

Maybe it's a conspiracy. Yeah! That's it !

I know why these companies do it; because we let them.

In earlier threads, (2002) I defended using Essilor because of the great support (co-op) and other incentives. I've since learned my lesson, and our store profits have risen enough that we can now afford to send our staff to Vegas, New York, and Florida for "training". That was more than we could ever afford before we weaned ourselves off of the big brands. Of course we don't get the "free" pupilometers, coffee mugs, or rugs with our names on them anymore. And how about all those glossies in the trade mags? How cheap do you think those are?

This is not intended to put Essilor, Zeiss, Lux, or any other brand names down, but practioners need to wake up and realize that they have choices beyond what the reps bring to them.

Oh, and I'm glad you enjoyed your dinner, but this time, I didn't contribute.;)

[Fezz]

Dearest Johns;

You are breaking our hearts. Don't do this to us.
Please do not spread these terrible truths,er ah ah er ah, I mean lies, anymore. You know that our company depends on fools like you to buy into the hype. We NEED private optical to purchase the higher cost "premium" lenses. How else do you think we can afford to provide these lavish dinners and still be able to cut costs to the Big Boy Opticals so they can undercut you? You have been tempted by those not so big name companies. We will forgive you. Think of us, we have needs. We miss you, please come back!


Fondly,
BigLensCo



:D :cheers: :D

[k12311997]

Johns

Essilor is having a dinner meeting at Morton's of Chicago in Pittsburgh to convince me and other local opticians to sell Physio . I'm going for the free meal. If I recommend something it is because I've seen it work or, I've read posts on Optiboard and the product is well recieved. The more a product is marketed to me the less likely I'm to use it, if it is so good why the hard sell.

I couldn't agree with you more about them spending on dinner,and I'm not the type to start using their lenses because they gave me a mug and pen but I think comping a new design is just a good way to get people to try something different rather than just sitting on if it ain't broke don't fix it. Unfortunately no one in our office is presbyopic yet for actuall first hand experience. The funny thing about the dinner was that most of the people there were big Varilux boosters I almost felt like they packed the room.

[Fezz]

The funny thing about the dinner was that most of the people there were big Varilux boosters I almost felt like they packed the room.

Preaching to the choir?

[k12311997]

most people were talking about why should they go from the comfort to the physio? my comment "any lens properly fit will be successful." you'd think if they were going to spend that money to schmooze us they'd try to get people who use other product, not just getting the supporters to upgrade

[Johns]

you'd think if they were going to spend that money to schmooze us they'd try to get people who use other product, not just getting the supporters to upgrade

There just trying to squeeze a little more out of the loyalists.

[drk]

I think I may be the Pollyanna of the world, here, but whatever happened to the concept that lens manufacturers, wholesale labs, and eye care professionals are in the business of vision care?

Whatever happened to the concept that the lens manufacturers support professional dispensing...that is, no profit-first-patient-second behavior? Does essilor or CZV give a rat's !!! that their "economically defendable" sweetheart deals propagate commercial opticals? Aren't commercial opticals bad? Aren't "McTicians" bad? Isn't "dumbed-down" bad?

Where are the ethics, vision, and leadership? Yeah, I know, "Who cares about that in this day and age?" "Look at the market share of the chains. Let's get a piece of that. The customers can't be wrong. Give 'em what they want."

Well, if we were in the US Shoe business, I guess that philosophy would hold water. BUT I'M HERE TO REMIND SOME that we are health care professionals, and the manufacturers make health care products. NOT SHOES.

Being a health care professional means TAKING RESPONSIBILITY, for the individual, for the profession, for the public health system in general.

I think that the lens manufacturers ought to reexamine their mission statements, and realize that they are driving the eye care delivery system more than they want to take responsibility for.

No one can tell me that chain medicine, opticianry, dentistry, or optometry is good for the public health system. Sure, maybe better access at 7 p.m. in the mall. Sure, maybe better walk-in ability. But the chains are no better than a "doc in the box" at an urgent care center or going to the ER when you have a cold.

The bottom line is that if short sighted optical giants want to squash professional optical, then we're ALL going to suffer. I'm sure Mr. CEO of CZV gets his eyecare from a professional, yet he'll cut his throat behind the scenes in the name of profit. Irresponsible, I say.

Costco's 5% margin in optical concept can rot in !!!!. You CANNOT independently maintain high quality at non-existent margins in a drastically service-heavy health care industry. Shame on them for doing it "because they can". That's not a good excuse. Thanks for *******izing eye care, Costco.

And, while we're at it, shame on all of us. Shame on us for not standing up for our professional ethics and letting "the dollar" rule our career choices. Opticians and optometrists working in chains *******ize their own profession (and have 1,000,000 good excuses for doing so).

Money trumps ethics in this society in this time. Enjoy the fruits.

[lensgrinder]

All this capitalism talk is well and good.

However, there are consequences to actions. Lens manufacturers have to realize that they may put the independent out of business with these "sweeheart deals". Nobody is putting a gun to their heads.

I do not think their intent is to put the independent out of business. They want to make money, just like you.
"Big Chain" knows how many 6.00 base 2.25 Add they will need from week to week so they can tell company x they will purchase 2,000 of those lenses per week. Now company x knows they can maufacture those lenses without a loss, because "big chain" will buy them.
I am sure if you purchased a certain amount of lenses from company x they would cut you the same "sweetheart deal". It is simply about making money. They have stockholders who demand a profit, so they do what they can to deliver.

[Johns]

Preaching to the choir?

When they came out w/ Panamic, they had a big dinner for us, complete w/ a regionally known singer - Michael Stanley. I went for the free meal and to hear the entertainment.

I brought along 5 friends of mine (Free dinner? OPen Bar? Free music? I suddenly had friends!) 3 of my friends were plumbers, 1 was a teacher, the other a general contractor. 3 of them ended up winning door prizes. None of them had a clue about glasses or anything to do with them.

In this case, Essilor was not preaching to the choir...they were preaching to people that didn't even know what the sermon was about!

[drk]

I do not think their intent is to put the independent out of business. They want to make money, just like you.
"Big Chain" knows how many 6.00 base 2.25 Add they will need from week to week so they can tell company x they will purchase 2,000 of those lenses per week. Now company x knows they can maufacture those lenses without a loss, because "big chain" will buy them.
I am sure if you purchased a certain amount of lenses from company x they would cut you the same "sweetheart deal". It is simply about making money. They have stockholders who demand a profit, so they do what they can to deliver.

I think you have precisely missed my point.

[Eddie G's]

COSTCO is the EVIL EMPIRE!!!

:angry:

[Speedyspecs]

The mix between professionalism and economics is difficult to balance. But we cannot put our heads in the sand and pretend that economics does not exist.

Also, I know of several Wal-Mart, Lenscrafters, Eyemasters, and Costco employees who have more professional knowledge than myself, and they use their professionalism on the job. To blaketly say that the big boxes decrease care is incorrect.

Take Lenscrafters. Until they mass produced "in about an hour", most patients had to wait two weeks for their eyewear, even in emergencies. Lenscrafters provided the huge professional service of providing eyewear quickly. This is awesome for a kid who stepped on his -5.00s the day before finals. I say that Lenscrafters produce a huge benefit. That is why they make so much money.

[Chris Ryser]

The results will floor you! (It will also make your current lens reps cringe when they find out you're getting the same results from "inferior" (their words) products.

It's a new world out there, and it take a whole different approach to it to stay in the game.

A few of years ago, this board was dominated by the " I love the big corporations and their products" posters. I have followed the trend as it is happening around the globe, and I can see they are narrowing the field at a faster pace. There seems to be a small shift of opinions.

It is not only about one of them selling for a lot cheaper to Costco, it is about the C O N T R O L of products in every way. And whoever controls the products also controls the customer.

The lenses you and Costco are buying and using are not made anymore in France, Germany or the USA. If you go on the corporative websites you will see that their manufacturing plants are spread over the far east.

Do you really believe that having moved production facilities to developing countries has increased or levelled out prices of these lens products?

Check you price list's of a few years back and you will see no down trend in pricing, I would even bet that prices are up while manufacturing cost has been reduced to a fraction of previous days.

[drk]

I say "wrong".

Lenscrafters et. al. are constantly in trouble with state boards, if you have one.

A -5.00 kid should be responsible enough to have a back up pair.

Ask any LC employee how they feel about the company.

I was still in school in 1985 (?), but I doubt they improved cycle time by 50% industry-wide.

There is no mystery to balancing professionalism and business. Here's how it works:
1.) Fair and responsible behavior towards your "customers" or patients.
2.) Business realities are done behind the scenes: saving $ on expenses.