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Thread: What do you think of this statement?

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    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    What do you think of this statement?

    Conservatives do not endorse any government action to defend morality and the traditional family structure simply because we believe it isn't governments place to decide morality for us.
    Does this reflect the reality of what's happening in the U.S.? Isn't it really the conservatives who are initiating actions that would cause their morals to become law? I'm thinking of the many constitutional ammendments that ban same-gender marriage, and anti-choice activists who want to make abortion illegal. Aren't those initiatives instigated by conservatives? And therefore, don't conservatives think it is government's place to decide morality issues?
    ...Just ask me...

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    Spex:

    Just what are your morals?
    What morals of conservatives do you find to be in error?

    Chip

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    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Spex:

    Just what are your morals?
    What morals of conservatives do you find to be in error?

    Chip
    Not the point. Do you think the statement accurately reflects reality?
    ...Just ask me...

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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    I think it accurately reflects the reality of the Republican party....in 1865
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    Optiboard Professional Bill West's Avatar
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    Deeper look....

    Quote Originally Posted by Spexvet View Post
    Does this reflect the reality of what's happening in the U.S.? Isn't it really the conservatives who are initiating actions that would cause their morals to become law? I'm thinking of the many constitutional ammendments that ban same-gender marriage, and anti-choice activists who want to make abortion illegal. Aren't those initiatives instigated by conservatives? And therefore, don't conservatives think it is government's place to decide morality issues?
    ....since the people are the goverment and their God lays down moral law there is nothing wrong if the majority votes to establish moral law. Some people have no morals and these folk would like nothing better then to take moral life away from others, then we could all live a godless lifestyle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubendol View Post
    I think it accurately reflects the reality of the Republican party....in 1865
    Personally, I stay OUT of political discussions. But I've encountered people who say, "I'm conservative, but not republican conservative-old school conservative." What they mean by this is more like what the word "conservative" actually means. They do not agree with current Rep beliefs, but back in the day, the conservative party was focused on being conservative about what the government controlled. Minimal interfearance in our personal decisions kind of thing.

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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    Absolutely....I'm a bit of a history buff and it's fascinating to watch the evolution of both political parties.
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    Master OptiBoarder
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    Ooh. Grubendol! Merry Merried Christmas!!
    DH and I are looking for a special ornament for our tree to help us remember our first merried christmas! Are you guys doing anything special?

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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    We're Disneyland fanatics...so we got the "our first christmas" ornament from there this year.
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    awe...how sweet!

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    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubendol View Post
    I think it accurately reflects the reality of the Republican party....in 1865
    Actually I think this accurately represents Goldwater and more traditional Libertarian brands of Conservatism.


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    Christmas is also capitolized, just like God.

    And there isn't a non secretarian Christmas, there is only one and it celibrated only one entity, his name is capitolized.

    Chip

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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    chip, I believe you mean either sectarian or secular....

    and while this is true, it's also true that many people never capitalize or ALWAYS CAPITALIZE in web postings.
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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    There is no question that there have been cycles to the republican/conservative ideology. The description fits Goldwater/Teddy Roosevelt/Lincoln quite well, it's the gaps in between where it's a little foggier.
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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubendol View Post
    chip, I believe you mean either sectarian or secular....

    and while this is true, it's also true that many people never capitalize or ALWAYS CAPITALIZE in web postings.
    I see Chip's point. You capitalized Disneyland but not Christmas. ;)

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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    well, it's Disneyland after all ;) :p

    and I don't mean to be offensive, but I am admittedly not devout to any form of religion...except hockey, maybe kayaking, and anything to do with Neal Stephenson or Joseph Campbell.
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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I don't want to start anything either, but then why would a "first christmas ornament" be of any importance, or the tree either, for that matter?

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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    Well, despite the Christian origins of Christmas, there is no denying it has become an essentially secular holiday, everyone gets it off, paid at that. Almost every faith celebrates it in some fashion. And I was raised by a family really into it. I believe fully that Jesus was an incredible philosopher, and he gave tremendously to the future of the world, and I can enjoy celebrating that, without the religious connotations associated by others.

    My wife is a "C&E" Catholic so it means alot to her as well. We even had a pretty heavy dose of religiosity to our wedding ceremony, because it means alot to her and her family. I'm not antagonistic towards those who are religioius, I just find it unnecessary for myself.

    EDIT:
    I absolutely thrive on discussing political and religious topics, when the discourse is civil and people are willing to accept differing opinions, even if they don't agree to them.
    Last edited by Grubendol; 11-29-2006 at 05:26 PM.
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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Fair enough.

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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    I'm of the sincere belief that many on the left and the right share more values and hopes for the nation...it's the pundants who make us think in the us vs. them mentality that is so destructive to this country.

    I am nothing if not an idealist...and proudly so.
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    That Boy Ain't Right Blake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol View Post
    Actually I think this accurately represents Goldwater and more traditional Libertarian brands of Conservatism.
    My thoughts exactly - Spex's statement more accurately reflects a libertarian (or socially liberal) viewpoint.

    And didn't the Republican party in 1865 take a moral stand regarding slavery?

    If only conservatives are supposedly turning to government to legislate morality, then where do liberal proposals come from? Immorality? Or just a different set of moral priorities?
    Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear brighter before you hear them speak.

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    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    It's about emphasizing different morals.....
    The liberals emphasize morals of charity, brotherhood and egalitarianism.

    "conservatives" emphasize morals of sexuality and behavior.

    I put "conservatives" in quotes because I don't think that's where the majority of conservatives are, just the ones in control of the direction of the Republican party right now.
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    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blake View Post
    ...If only conservatives are supposedly turning to government to legislate morality, then where do liberal proposals come from? Immorality? Or just a different set of moral priorities?
    How about from the perspective that my morals might well not be the same as yours, so I'm not going to impose them on you.
    ...Just ask me...

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    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubendol View Post
    ...I absolutely thrive on discussing political and religious topics, when the discourse is civil and people are willing to accept differing opinions, even if they don't agree to them.
    SHUT UP! ::: Pushes you in the chest in my best Elaine Bettis maneuver::::D
    ...Just ask me...

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spexvet View Post
    SHUT UP! ::: Pushes you in the chest in my best Elaine Bettis maneuver::::D

    You just totally earned points for that one! ROFLMAO!

    I still mutter "Newman!" under my breath when something goes wrong.
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