Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46

Thread: If you want lower taxes...

  1. #1
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On my soapbox
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,760

    If you want lower taxes...

    If you want lower taxes, what are you willing to give up? Something that your taxes pay for now. Something that you benefit from - you can't say "welfare" unless you are on welfare.
    ...Just ask me...

  2. #2
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On my soapbox
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,760
    The war in Iraq.

    Edit: the war doesn't benefit me, so I take it back.
    Last edited by Spexvet; 11-16-2006 at 09:21 AM.
    ...Just ask me...

  3. #3
    One of the worst people here
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Occupation
    Other Eyecare-Related Field
    Posts
    8,331
    It is amazing that people seem to not understand that by giving up taxes you are giving up things. Whether it is military funding, health-care, education, social services and so forth.

    Many take the "screw everyone else model," but we have to remember if a nation really wants to move forward is denying the poor health care and education a good thing?

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    12,996
    Almost everything in the federal budget. Especially future propositions like Hillary~care. Medicare(I'll be elligable soon), all subsidies including education, healthcare, etc.

    I'd be quite happy if the federal goverment did only what it should do: "Carry the mail and guard the damned coastline."
    quotation courtesy Alvin York.

    I don't really need studies on the snail darter, frogs, kangaroo rats, etc.


    Chip

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    12,996
    Spex:
    It's your question and your criteria: How do you benfit from the war in Iraq?
    Last edited by chip anderson; 11-15-2006 at 05:55 PM. Reason: No spell check available, no cut and paste available.

  6. #6
    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Whittier, CA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,506
    on a note to what the govt should do.....Jefferson felt it was vital for democracy and the nation for all citizens to be educated to the fullest. He felt education should be free through graduate level college. I agree with him and I don't care if it costs more taxes to do so.

    So, in the end I would say that if we readjusted the tax code so it it worked like it used to...namely the top 10% paying even just 30% tax rate (instead of their current 15%)...essentially flipping the code so that the middle class pays 15% instead of the current 30% it would raise revenues for the govt and give the working class and the working poor more to spend, thus stimulating the economy at the same time.
    www.opticaljedi.com
    www.facebook.com/opticaljedi
    www.twitter.com/opticaljedi
    __________________________________
    Prognatus ex Alchemy ad Diligo
    Eliza Joy Martius VIII MMVIII


  7. #7
    Bad address email on file k12311997's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,921
    education spending the average public school spends $8,500 per student the average private school spends $5,000 per student. I'm not suggesting anything to do with vouchers or getting rid of public schools just getting spending under control. adjusted for inflation spending per student has doubled in the past thirty years yet NEAP testing scores remain flat. Throwing money at the education system has not made smarter students just more wasteful administrations.

    p.s. I have an 8 year old in a catholic school and since we all went to school I feel this applies to everyone.

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Whittier, CA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,506
    from Abraham Lincoln:

    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Lincoln's First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861.
    www.opticaljedi.com
    www.facebook.com/opticaljedi
    www.twitter.com/opticaljedi
    __________________________________
    Prognatus ex Alchemy ad Diligo
    Eliza Joy Martius VIII MMVIII


  9. #9
    OptiBoard Professional
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    England
    Occupation
    Optical Laboratory Technician
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by Spexvet View Post
    If you want lower taxes, what are you willing to give up? Something that your taxes pay for now. Something that you benefit from - you can't say "welfare" unless you are on welfare.
    Welfare, and yes I have just signed on. The system does not reward those who have looked after themselves all their lives, who get a lower payout. I am wondering why the office full of healthy young men and women do not apply for work with the dozen employment agencies up the road.
    Optical technicians in Britain.

    http://www.optiglaze.co.uk/forum/

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    United States
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,197
    Because of the crazy way Welfare is set up.

    Say you are a single mom with 3 kids under the age of 10. Divorced/broke up with the dad who is supposed to pay child support..but doesn't. (by the way, the police/collection departments don't get involved till the dad is at least 1 yr behind)

    You work some job that pays $9/hr.

    $9x40 = $360/wk before taxes

    or roughly $18-19k a year.

    She is claiming all her deductions up front so she is 25% tax

    so $270 take home a week or $14000/year

    Daycare for 3 kids is roughly $125/wk who are in school(this is based upon my own personal shop around experience) $125x52=$6500

    So that leaves $7500/yr

    Supposed they don't even have a car but use public transportation.
    That is still $60 for a monthly pass.
    $60x12=$500

    That leaves $7000 left.

    Rent in a the cheapest of cheap areas all three kids sharing one bedroom is still $500/month

    $500x12 = $6000

    That leaves $1000 and we still haven't taken in consideration food, clothing, or medical care.

    Many of these people (and I work in an office that does 15% medicaid) have jobs! The ones who don't are seriously ill / disabled.

    At least here in Indiana the people on medicaid need to provide earning statements and update their records on file every 6 months or lose their benefits.

    If programs such as WIC, Medicaid, and Welfare did not exist, many children would ultimately either die or be removed from a loving parent's home due to the inability to care for them.

    What needs to happen is a scaling of benefits (which Indiana is working on like having a "premium" for medicaid for working parents who make more than traditional qualifications, but don't make enough to pay out right)

    THat way when you get a raise and make $9.50/hr .. suddenly putting you above the cap for traditional services, you don't see families forced to decide to lose their jobs cause it pays more and might be the only way to ensure you child gets cared for.

    I also know several single parents who work two jobs. That is great in some ways.. but then the children never get to see their parents either, and every child needs quality time with their parent.

    The best situation is those who then use a paper route, or works nights as one job, and then another while the child is at school. Only problem is that the parent is so short on sleep, that they have no energy to spend on their child most of the time, and they get sick often...Plus the only way this would work is if you had someone you reall trusted and charged you way less to cover all the hours of daycare. (Overnight rates are not cheap, even if the child is usually sleeping)

    Cassandra
    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    United States
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,197
    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    education spending the average public school spends $8,500 per student the average private school spends $5,000 per student. I'm not suggesting anything to do with vouchers or getting rid of public schools just getting spending under control. adjusted for inflation spending per student has doubled in the past thirty years yet NEAP testing scores remain flat. Throwing money at the education system has not made smarter students just more wasteful administrations.

    p.s. I have an 8 year old in a catholic school and since we all went to school I feel this applies to everyone.

    That is where the money is going.. administrations! It is sad when my school is needed to use grants to upgrade computer equipment, we're purchasing kleenex, and other classroom supplies because the school can't afford it.. but we have this heavily bloated administration.

    Then the wasteful school board decides to remove our superintendent just one year after renewing his contract for another 5 years, and will be spending almost a half a million dollars to buy out his contract and spend much more going through the litigation that is being filed over this turn of events. (Half the school board wasn't even told the removal of the superintendent was going to be on the agenda for the meeting till the day of...Superintendent has been with the district for over 15 years and is well liked by many... Named Superintendent of the year multiple times.. parents and teachers weren't allowed to speak before the voting....Lots of issues)

    I believe that education needs some additional fundage.. we are getting behind compared to other countries in the world. Our teachers are underpaid, and many aren't qualified.. either educational or attitude wise. We have a shortage of qualified special education/speech-language pathologists/occupational therapists in all our schools. Currently public education isn't an economically viable career unless you are in admin or have years and years of tenure. However the biggest change that needs to take place is the streamlining the admin and bureaucracy that runs rampant in many school districts.

    I personally find it sad when many teachers are paying out of their own pockets for folders/pencils/crayons and other community school items.. along with their items for bulletien boards and classroom excersises. Our taxes should cover these items..

    Cassandra
    Last edited by Jubilee; 11-16-2006 at 08:20 AM. Reason: spelling clarification
    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    12,996
    Day Care Expense:

    Cassandra: Who's fault it it if people have children before they can afford to support them (and yes, I did but somehow mannaged without tax breaks or government support)? Is it the fault of society? Is it the fault of the government? Is it the fault of the taxpayers?
    Or is it as Jimmy Buffet says: "But I know it's my own damn fault."
    Why should society pay for this?

    Chip

  13. #13
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On my soapbox
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,760
    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Spex:
    It's your question and your criteria: How do you benfit from the war in Iraq?
    You know what, Chip? For once you make a good point. If you were to believe Bush, the war in Iraq keeps them fighting there, instead of here. I don't believe Bush. The war doesn't benefit me, so I take it back.
    ...Just ask me...

  14. #14
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On my soapbox
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,760
    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Day Care Expense:

    Cassandra: Who's fault it it if people have children before they can afford to support them (and yes, I did but somehow mannaged without tax breaks or government support)? Is it the fault of society? Is it the fault of the government? Is it the fault of the taxpayers?
    Or is it as Jimmy Buffet says: "But I know it's my own damn fault."
    Why should society pay for this?

    Chip
    Chip, You may (or may not) have kept up on your child support, if you have kids with your previous three wives, but maybe the father of Cassandra's children has not. Are you suggesting that Cassandra's kids be unsupervised, or that she stay home to take care of them (and generate no income at all)?
    ...Just ask me...

  15. #15
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On my soapbox
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,760
    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Almost everything in the federal budget. Especially future propositions like Hillary~care. Medicare(I'll be elligable soon), all subsidies including education, healthcare, etc.

    I'd be quite happy if the federal goverment did only what it should do: "Carry the mail and guard the damned coastline."
    quotation courtesy Alvin York.
    Your grandkids' education isn't important? Your family doesn't need help in the aftermath of Katrina? If one of your family gets sick, it'll be OK if they die because you can't afford the medical care?

    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    I don't really need studies on the snail darter, frogs, kangaroo rats, etc.
    Chip
    Would you feel differently if studying the snail darter led to the cure for cancer, or led to diffinitive proof of the existence of the christian god?
    ...Just ask me...

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    12,996
    Spex: What I was saying was having children one is unable to support is a result of one's own voluntary (hopefully) action. Therefore one should have to pay the consequences of same. I was not speaking of Cassandra in particular, I was speaking of the whole society is responsible concept.

    Chip

  17. #17
    One of the worst people here
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Occupation
    Other Eyecare-Related Field
    Posts
    8,331
    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Spex: What I was saying was having children one is unable to support is a result of one's own voluntary (hopefully) action. Therefore one should have to pay the consequences of same. I was not speaking of Cassandra in particular, I was speaking of the whole society is responsible concept.

    Chip
    Oh Chip, I agree. THere are many out there that have children that they cannot support, and I do not sympathise with them. I do sympthatise with the children though. Without free education and free health-care to those children we may be denying the next World leader or next business leader a future.

  18. #18
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    United States
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,197
    Quote Originally Posted by chip anderson View Post
    Spex: What I was saying was having children one is unable to support is a result of one's own voluntary (hopefully) action. Therefore one should have to pay the consequences of same. I was not speaking of Cassandra in particular, I was speaking of the whole society is responsible concept.

    Chip

    Well fortunately this isn't me.. but many of the people I have either worked with or have seen in my practice.

    Fortunes change literally change overnight. Weather disasters (hurricane katrina), Fires, and acts of war (9/11) and human nature can make it so one day you are living your nice suburban life with a small nest egg, and the next you are in a whole new much poorer place.

    Not everyone has life insurance.. not everyone has health insurance.. not everyone has the support systems of friends/family/church to guide them through various crisis.

    Is the person who loses their job when the plant closes down responsible for the downturn in the economy and his company's performance? Was he a fool to think he had job security and it was "safe" to have kids with his wife?

    Is it more cost efficient to make someone work at a $9/hr job than to stay at home with their terminally ill spouse/parent/child? Than to pay for either hospice care or a home health aid?

    Is it the mother's fault when dad runs off and disappears, when for four years before having children and 3 years after he was around and providing 70% of the household income?

    Should a person end up pregnant before they are financially stable.. should they place the child for adoption (when so many aren't being adaopted in the US cause it is Sooo more fashionable to adopt out of the US) or just end it through abortion and kill the child instead...

    I am not saying there are not abuse and problems with the system.. what I am saying is that welfare is a safety net, designed to help those down and out to get them back on their feet and on the way up.

    It should not be eliminated completely.. instead it should be reworked like many states are doing to scale and ease people off.

    Eliminating it completely will cause an even greater disparity between the haves and the have nots.. and many more will end up dead because of the lack of health care and social services.

    Then again.. less people equals more for us.. yay

    Cassandra
    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

  19. #19
    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Whittier, CA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,506
    I went from working full time in Aug 03 to spending 3 months in a hospital followed by 9 months of recuperation before I could work again. My medical bills without insurance would have been over $1 million. With insurance my out of pocked was still close to $10,000 and I'll tell you it's hard to pay that kind of money when you can't work.
    www.opticaljedi.com
    www.facebook.com/opticaljedi
    www.twitter.com/opticaljedi
    __________________________________
    Prognatus ex Alchemy ad Diligo
    Eliza Joy Martius VIII MMVIII


  20. #20
    Bad address email on file k12311997's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,921
    Quote Originally Posted by Jubilee View Post
    ....I believe that education needs some additional fundage....

    Cassandra

    not more funding, more accountability. earn funding with results both in grades and by showing that the district is capable of managing the money recieved better. We need to get more for our money from education not just put more money into education.

  21. #21
    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Whittier, CA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,506
    Elminate NO CHild Left Behind and things could get better. You lose money if you do poorly, so the rich get richer...plus it's all about memorization and not critical thinking. Being able to REASON is the key to education....and getting kids to enjoy it.
    www.opticaljedi.com
    www.facebook.com/opticaljedi
    www.twitter.com/opticaljedi
    __________________________________
    Prognatus ex Alchemy ad Diligo
    Eliza Joy Martius VIII MMVIII


  22. #22
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Jubilee's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    United States
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,197
    Anyone read Reader's Digest? Will Smith had some interesting ideas on education.

    My problem is with school's infrastructure and teacher's salaries. At least here in Indiana, we have several schools that don't even have air conditioning. How can students stay awake and pay attention if they are sweltering in 90-100 degree classrooms?

    The other thing is that many corporations and tutoring companies are wooing the education majors into other arenas. Sylvan Learning systems pays their administrators more than the school districts pay their teachers with 5 years exp. Companies want someone with curriculum and teaching experience to develop training programs for both in house applications and for consumer's as well.

    There are so many more careers that are more lucrative than public education. That is what should change....
    "Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland

  23. #23
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On my soapbox
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,760
    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    .. earn funding with results both in grades...
    Let's see.... imagine that you are the coach of a basketball team. Your team has a very poor record. Should the owner say "you're not getting good results with the money you've spent, so next year I'm giving you LESS money"? Would your team likely be better or worse with less money to spend?
    ...Just ask me...

  24. #24
    Bad address email on file k12311997's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,921
    Quote Originally Posted by Spexvet View Post
    Let's see.... imagine that you are the coach of a basketball team. Your team has a very poor record. Should the owner say "you're not getting good results with the money you've spent, so next year I'm giving you LESS money"? Would your team likely be better or worse with less money to spend?

    not even the beginning of a fair evaluation.

    in sports you are dealing with a limited pool of individuals with hopefully better than average talent and the ability to sell themselves to the highest bidder according to the talent they have displayed. you can spend more money for better talent.

    The money being spent/wasted with education never reaches the teachers paychecks it never reaches more books, or better computers. you could try to spend more money for better talent if you could spend less on lower talent but you can't because of teachers unions, it is spent in the administration of the educational system which is not efficient or effective.

    Like anything to do with government vs private the private entity must manage its money and remain competitive and efficient to survive. The government entity can spend the money it receives ineffectively because there is no other option or choice and all it needs to do to get more money is take it from our pockets, not provide a better product.

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder Grubendol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Whittier, CA
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,506
    While the Unions are not perfect I think it's a long way to go to blame the quality of the educational spending on the unions.
    www.opticaljedi.com
    www.facebook.com/opticaljedi
    www.twitter.com/opticaljedi
    __________________________________
    Prognatus ex Alchemy ad Diligo
    Eliza Joy Martius VIII MMVIII


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Taxes
    By Night Train in forum Just Conversation
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-21-2003, 09:49 AM
  2. Taxes
    By Shwing in forum Just Conversation
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-12-2003, 02:09 PM
  3. lower OC for angle of side
    By yzf-r1 in forum Ophthalmic Optics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-31-2002, 02:18 PM
  4. NEW Titanium...Lower Price
    By kjw1231 in forum Optical Marketplace
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-23-2002, 02:08 PM
  5. Taxes..
    By sandeepgoodbole in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-08-2001, 02:42 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •