how does the optical industry perceive master'sprograms from non traditional schools?

[rolandclaur]

I am sure like many of the other individuals on this forum, most of us are trying to get ahead of the game through education. I would like to seek advice on how to get ahead so I hope I am not being selfish by asking a few questions and concerns. Maybe other members of this forum can benefit from this posting.

i finished my degree from a 4 year traditional university. As my signature shows, I double majored in criminology and sociology, with a minor in history. There in lies the problem. My undergraduate degree has almost no association with the optical industry. Where I live, none of the universities do not offer a BA in optical management or any similar degrees.

I, like most if not all of the members here, am a working professional and can not sacrifice work to go to school full time. I would like to get into the marketing and business side of the field. The master's programs at traditional schools have such difficult schedules to work with when working full time. So I am currently attending the University of Phoenix on campus for my MBA with a specialization in marketing, but am having serious concerns with the validity and credibilty of this degree, especially in regards to employers within the optical industry.

We always talk about furthering educational standards for opticians in terms of certifications, and also establishing degree programs. But there has been very little talk about master's programs and what value they hold.

My question therefore stands: Is getting a master degree from a non traditional school any better than not having one at all? Do employers in this field shun potential employees with non traditional degrees as much as employers from other fields such as finance, economics, IT, etc.

[Jubilee]

Seems we come from similar backgrounds :)

I have my bachelor's in Law & Society, which is a derivitave of Sociology and Criminology. I have minors in Communication, Psych, and Philosophy.

I am working on a non traditional degree as well.. through Colorado Technical University. The school I am working with also provides courses for the military and is supported by many businesses. The way the classes are set up is that there is a scenario that all the tasks are based upon. Many are "real life" business examples based upon the experiences of the instructors/administration's experiences.

My research on the subject is that while attending a prestigious business school would buy more favor, many places are accepting the non traditional degrees. While you may have to show evidence of the courses, and your work (basically a portfolio of sorts) If you can show that it took effort to complete and that it isn't a mill.. you're fine.

Here in Indiana we did have a case of a gentleman appointed to a state post that had a non traditional degree. He was asked to decline the position, but only cause he couldn't provide any of the work showing the scope and difficulty of his assignments. They ran a story asking about non-traditional degrees and the majority of businesses said they were fine. IN some ways, it garners a bit more respect since you are juggling much more on your plate besides school alone.

Many of the traditional unverisities now have non traditional degrees...I think that shows acceptance as well. Otherwise, why would they dilute the value of their school?

Cassandra

[rbaker]

Why would anyone seek a "non traditional" degree from a "non traditional" school? It seems to me a waste of time and money. Most of these credits and degrees are worthless if you want to transfer them to a college or university.

[EyeFitWell]

Around here, the only school which offers the Opticianry Degree Program is a tech school, probably the easiest to get into in the state. When I graduated high school, only the very lowest of my class planned to attend this tech school. I must admit, I get the feeling when I tell people where I'm going that they look down on it. It is the only school in my state with the program. The program itself is wonderful.
In my opinion, college degrees tell potential employers one thing: I am capable of jumping through hoops. Now, granted, you're learning and earning a degree. But earning a degree is kind of a four-year interview to see how well you can pull off a task given to you. Also, your GPA says a lot about who you are.
So, if you go to the school you're at, and earn straight A's, build relationships with some of the higher up teachers, and have something to show for it, then by all means do continue. If you're going to go there and be an average student getting average grades, it might not do you any good. One thing's for sure: it's not going to hurt you in any way (except your wallet), and it'll surely teach you something.

I applaud your efforts towards self-improvement. It is a skill many of us lack.
Good luck!

[wmcdonald]

I have experienced a number of different non-traditional programs personally, and benefited from each experience. As far as acceptance, you will find varying opinions, but one thing is clear, the acceptance is far greated than anyone would think, so long as the institutions are appropriately accredited. There is another forum that may be helpful and I suggest you take a look. Degree.net (www.degree.net) and another (www.degreeinfo.com) are very informative and will provide answers for many who desire to gain addtional academic credentials, but like I, could return to college full-time. The Univerisity of Phoenix (and I need to add here I serve as an adjunct in graduate program at the Raleigh campus) is doing something right with 330,000 students, but still has the stigma of an online institution in the eyes of many. Do not let that worry you. You will find schools like Harvard, Stanford, The University of North Carolina, Duke and almost all others are venturing into Distance Learning in large ways. Take a look at the sites, and judge for yourself. Unfortunately, there is little beyond the AAS degree at Community and Technical Colleges that offer Opticianry, and the field has been slow to even consider baccalaureate level programs. Charter Oak stared a Optical Business Management degree (Dr. Ferguson was the main mover and shaker in the endeavor), and it continues to exist, but there have been alomst no graduates. Find your own program, and continue to learn. It will pay great dividends. Feel free to contact me with any questions. One thing to consider.....we need more educators with credentials to train and educate future Opticians. Think about it.

Good luck!

[Audiyoda]

Personally I can't say I'm impressed with Univ. of Phoenix. I've worked with some of their graduates and they seem very single minded on many business-related topics.

There are plenty of other options for on-line MBA degrees - I believe that Cal State Dominguez Hills offers a on-line MBA program. I had a friend in San Jose take it - since he was a resident the cost was minimal. That's certainly not the only option, a simple Google search for MBA Online provides dozens and dozens of relevent hits. And you might want to check out this article from Business Week on distance MBA programs. They list over 80 schools - some of which have very well regarded traditional MBA programs.

[fjpod]

Rolandclaur and Jubilee,

I'm unclear about your backgrounds. It seems to me that you have traditional degrees from traditional colleges. They are just not traditional as it relates to optics...but who says that's a bad thing?

[npdr]

"..

My question therefore stands: Is getting a master degree from a non traditional school any better than not having one at all? Do employers in this field shun potential employees with non traditional degrees as much as employers from other fields such as finance, economics, IT, etc.

What is the program you're talking about. I teach at a nontraditional bachelors/masters institution.

[Jubilee]

I am working on an MBA through an online school. Non traditional means that instead of attending classes through out the week, and giving up a career for 2 years to get a degree, the course work is done through online or distance learning programs, or "executive" style with classes scheduled one day a week for several hours.

Instead of taking 3-4 classes that last a semester, I take classes that last 5 1/2 -6 weeks. I have two assignments due every week, one typically being discussion board (equivalent to a 2 page paper with sources and critiques of other's posted works) and a project such as a power point presentation on break even analysis and based upon the company's forcasts, what they break even point should be. Then expands into the what if scenario's etc. General guidelines are 6-8 slides not including title, into, conclusion and reference slides with 200-400 words of notes for each slide. Other projects are the development of spreadsheets, workbooks, and research papers. To give you an idea of the intensity, I got points knocked off for not having an actual sketch or computer generated drawing of a packaging idea. It wasn't enough to show a picture of the style of box and discuss color and have a couple of pictures of the graphics to have on the box, along with font style and placement etc. I was to have an actual depiction of my idea... (and sorry, I am not a graphical artist...)

There is an idea out there that unless you sit in a classroom for 6 hours a week and only dedicate yourself to that degree and nothing else.. that the degree is worthless. The simple fact of the matter is that idea is far from the truth, and alternative methods of education are becoming more mainstream and with it... more respected.

Cassandra

[npdr]

I am working on an MBA through an online school. Non traditional means that instead of attending classes through out the week, and giving up a career for 2 years to get a degree, the course work is done through online or distance learning programs, or "executive" style with classes scheduled one day a week for several hours.

"...

I'm curious, Which online school? Online schools have a benefit and as a faculty of one of them, it does make sense. I get this a lot from students. The educational quality is spans from a absolutely abysmal paper mill to a serious institution.

Some of the more traditional universities are doing online graduate programs. One of the largest is Nova Southeastern.

[rolandclaur]

The program that I am talking about is the MBA program from the University of Phoenix. I've only been in two classes, but am starting to have serious doubt as to the validity and credibility of the degree from the school. The two lectures and classes i have attended have been disorganized, vague and informal, and the course material is sketchy and the material I have read seems to come out of Wikipedia.

Another primary concern is how will companies and employees, specifically in the optical industry, look at me with an MBA degree from University of Phoenix.

My hope is to be able to obtain my MBA, and combine that degree with the ABO masters and the NCLE-AC to get ahead in the field. But is it worth it go get the degree from UOP. What do you guys think?

[npdr]

The program that I am talking about is the MBA program from the University of Phoenix. I've only been in two classes, but am starting to have serious doubt as to the validity and credibility of the degree from the school. The two lectures and classes i have attended have been disorganized, vague and informal, and the course material is sketchy and the material I have read seems to come out of Wikipedia.

I'm on the MBA faculty at UOP and know what some of your concerns are. In my opinion, you should voice your concerns early! If you need some help in understanding UOP, please feel free to private message me.

Most of my students are from the computer industry and are graduates of many of the leading under graduate schools. I think your cohort of fellow students and you can truly shape your education.

[Jubilee]

I am going through Colorado Technical University. I have no complaints in regards to how the classes are managed nor the level of difficulty. I just wished there wasn't a defined order to take them in. Marketing required a ton of extra work (at least for me) during a time that I didn't have that much to give.. Accounting on the other hand didn't have as heavy of a load for group projects, and 30 slide ppts... however I couldn't take accounting instead of marketing when I was too tight on time... I had to take Marketing or sit out.

There are two live lectures a week, they are recorded for those who chose not to attend. For every set of assignments there is a list of resources and the online library they have is fantastic. I have tried other online programs before this is one I feel like you actually have to work for. They also have different specialties in their MBA program, including a health care specialization.

Its not cheap, but it does include all the software you could need (windows XP Professional, Microsoft Office Professional, amongst others) and they follow up on everything. Financial aid, class sign ups, payments, etc is all done pretty much automatically.

I looked at the University of Phoenix, I just thought CTU matched my needs more.

Cassandra

[npdr]

I am going through Colorado Technical University. I have no complaints in regards to how the classes are managed nor the level of difficulty. I just wished there wasn't a defined order to take them in. Marketing required a ton of extra work (at least for me) during a time that I didn't have that much to give.. Accounting on the other hand didn't have as heavy of a load for group projects, and 30 slide ppts... however I couldn't take accounting instead of marketing when I was too tight on time... I had to take Marketing or sit out...."

Thanks,

The course order is purley arbitrary in nature and is meant to give some kind of order and business model which makes planning easier. You will always have an unbalanced schedule and may need to adapt to those requirements.

Does CTU use the cohort model?

[For-Life]

I am currently doing my MSc (Masters of Science in Management) and have a business undergrad in marketing. I think it is a beautiful subject and encourage you to take a serious look at it.

[npdr]

I am currently doing my MSc (Masters of Science in Management) and have a business undergrad in marketing. I think it is a beautiful subject and encourage you to take a serious look at it.

For-Life,

Where are you enrolled at? Are you applying anything in the class to your present work?

[For-Life]

For-Life,

Where are you enrolled at? Are you applying anything in the class to your present work?

A Canadian University. Right now I am applying to go to a conference in February to present my work.

[Jubilee]

Thinking about it, I would say they do follow the cohort model. Everyone working on the same specialization of their MBA and comes in at the same time takes all their classes together. However we also classes that not only have the HR specialization, but HealthCare, and occasionaly IT as well.

While I can see how it can provide a support system and some comraderie, I get tired of being put into groups with the same people. Especially when some of those don't fully participate or contribute their fair share. (Group project due Friday by midnight, and people not posting their individual contributions till Friday noon.. though person in charge of putting it together had Thursday as their day to get it all together and said so from beginning.) Now not every group is that way, but for some reason the past 3 classes I have been put into a group with a girl that is that way, and I am getting tired of being a ***** about it. Unfortunately it isn't like the business world where I could fire her...

I realize that there will always be multiple demands on my time.. that is why I am in an online program. However I do think some flexibiilty will allow more people to stay on track. Many people find some subject fairly easy, and others more demanding. Some classes due to the types of projects involved are more demanding than others. Being able to take a class that isn't as demanding or tedious when you are during a particularly heavy time in other demands allows you to stay on track and fufill the rest of your commitments. Having only a 2 week group project that required very little interaction (talking what items should be in our individual spreadsheets and why.. along with ways to set it up) would have been easier to handle than a 6 week long project that kept building upon itself to a 30 slide PPT with notes, computer graphics, and twice weekly group chats (marketing plan) during a time when I was short staffed at work and going through some other time consuming personal stuff as well.



Cassandra