Tint and A/R

**spexer** · 10-19-2006, 08:07 AM

How many opticians dispense tinted lenses with A/R? Since one process increases light transmission and the other decreases it, why is it so popular? The lab I work for can not process crizal or endura with a tint. The results are blotchy and faded colors. I was told that the process for these "premium" intergrated coatings is not compatible with any surface tint. We currently out source these jobs to NACL and they do a very poor job as well. I am constantly upsetting my customers with delays.
Any suggestions or labs that are doing both processes effectively would be appreciated. :)
thanks in advance!

**Happylady** · 10-19-2006, 08:50 AM

I very rarely use a tint with an AR. I don't even offer a tint if the patient is going to get an AR.

I do have one patient that does both, though. She is pretty picky about the proper shade of brown. I make a sample tint and sent it along with her order to the lab. I use Zeiss SET for her AR. It never comes out exact, but it's close. It is never blotchy.

I think it is important to warn the patient that the tint won't be exact and can't be changed afterwards.

**LKahn** · 10-19-2006, 09:44 AM

If the tint is made with deionized water and is formulated for the type of plastic. The tint will be even and consistent. Deionized water is significantly more pure than tap water or distilled water. Deionized water does not contain any chemicals or minerals such as iron, chlorine or fluoride, etc. Minor amounts of chemicals and minerals have a big effect on the quality of the tint job. Additionally, deionized water has no electrical charge. This lack of electrical charge contributes to the tint affixing itself to the surface of the plastic lens. On most types of plastic lenses the tint does not penetrate the surface. There are a few circumstances where the tint can penetrate the lens surface. This requires a different formulation of tint.

We are manufacturers of tints, coatings and chemicals for the optical industry.

**Chris Ryser** · 10-19-2006, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by spexer

The lab I work for can not process crizal or endura with a tint. The results are blotchy and faded colors. I was told that the process for these "premium" intergrated coatings is not compatible with any surface tint.

This looks like a cleaning problem. I assume that most probably the lenses were properly tinted when they went to the coating lab.

In the AR coating lab, the lenses are exposed to a rigouros multi step cleaning process in large powerful ultra sonic cleaners with special cleaning agents added.

When putting tinted lenses through the cleaning process you will generally loose 12% to 15% of absorbtion during the process and also some during the coating process. Therefore if you want to end up with a 70% absorbtion on the lens you should tint them to about 85% absorbtion.

I would suggest you check the tinted lenses right after the cleaning process. Some cleaning chemicals can or could partially remove tints through the chemicals reaction combined with the ultrasonic waves.

I was told that the process for these "premium" intergrated coatings is not compatible with any surface tint.

In several post's by Pete Hanlin says that Essilor removes the hardcoat and puts their own hardcoat on the lenses which provides a better adhesion of the SIO2 AR coating, and maybe Zeiss/SOLA is doing something similar.

Therfore any tint in an existing hardcoat would dissapear with the coating or if there is no coating the tint would become blotchy through the action of the coating stripper.

This brings it down to the fact that you just stay away from these "premium integrated coatings" and do a simple home made AR coating and watch the tinted lenses all the way, as after the cleaning process, as well as after the coating process.

**For-Life** · 10-19-2006, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by spexer

How many opticians dispense tinted lenses with A/R? Since one process increases light transmission and the other decreases it, why is it so popular? The lab I work for can not process crizal or endura with a tint. The results are blotchy and faded colors. I was told that the process for these "premium" intergrated coatings is not compatible with any surface tint. We currently out source these jobs to NACL and they do a very poor job as well. I am constantly upsetting my customers with delays.
Any suggestions or labs that are doing both processes effectively would be appreciated. :)
thanks in advance!

Look at Essilor's Xelios package. It can be done with a tint and a mirror coat/backside AR, backside AR only, or Alize. The tints go from (I think) 35 percent to 95 percent.

**Chris Ryser** · 10-19-2006, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by LKahn

On most types of plastic lenses the tint does not penetrate the surface. There are a few circumstances where the tint can penetrate the lens surface.

That is why we have hard coated lenses that are tint able and others much harder ones that are non-tintable.

Polycarbonate and Trivex can not be tinted if not coated, and if coated with a non tintable hard coat you can still not tint them.

However if the hard coat is tint able you can dye them a light shade the conventional way, unless a soft hard coating allows more penetration but will be much softer and scratch easier

**spexer** · 10-19-2006, 10:55 AM

The lab I work for is an Essilor partner lab with an EXT crizal coating center. As Pete had said in his posts we use the same process, un-coated blanks or remove the hardcoat before the process begins. Then apply the TD2 before the rest of the Crizal process begins, also with Endura we use the manuf hardcoat frontside and apply our own in house backside before that process begins.

Because of this hard coat issue both of these products I am told can not be successfully tinted and A/R coated. That is why the lab sends these orders out to NACL. They allow NACL to tint and then use their own house A/R. Not with much satsifaction, either color or A/R is not good.

So if I have to give up using a "premium" A/R like Crizal is their any special tinting/cleaning technique would yield a better product? Currently we use BPI in our finishing portion of the lab.

I believe the tinted/Crizal product we have here in the states is Physio tints which we never distributed due to a decsion by lab management. Anyone using this with success?

**Chris Ryser** · 10-19-2006, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by spexer

So if I have to give up using a "premium" A/R like Crizal is their any special tinting/cleaning technique would yield a better product? Currently we use BPI in our finishing portion of the lab.

You might want to look into the MicroTint System which is the latest technology in lens tinting. You can see all the information on my website below my signature.

**LKahn** · 10-19-2006, 04:48 PM

We have recently introduced a revolutionary new family of coatings, LensArmor® is an extremely clear; one component, water-based, optical coating that exhibits a hard film, which can be used in a variety of applications for rigid substrates in particular polycarbonate. This coating has exceptional non-yellowing and detergent resistance properties. LensArmor® is non-toxic and non-combustible. Extraordinary performance in the “cross hatch” tape adhesion test. This product is intended for use as an intermediate layer applied directly to the lens surface. It provides impact and penetration resistance and consistently superior adhesion. It is tintable. It is not intended as an abrasion resistant coating. Refractive index of 1.58. Hardness of 2 to 3. 1 year shelf life and requires very little energy to apply. This product is applied and stored at room temperature. There are multiple versions of this coating.

This product may be applied with a variety of application equipment including varies manual and automatic spray equipment as well as dipping, bath, spin-coat and roller coating lines. The viscosity may need to be adjusted and optimized depending on the application method selected. Although LensArmor® will dry in most ambient (room temperature) conditions; it is highly recommended some form of heated drying system be used to accelerate the evaporation and the drying of the coating.

This coating would resolve your issues. Contact me for a technical bulletin.

**For-Life** · 10-19-2006, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by spexer

I believe the tinted/Crizal product we have here in the states is Physio tints which we never distributed due to a decsion by lab management. Anyone using this with success?

yes, it has been great

**chip anderson** · 10-19-2006, 05:49 PM

As you all know I am not a proponent of AR in most applications and do not push the stuff although not doing so cuts into my bottom line.
There is at least one reason for AR (at least back side) in tinted lenses as in certian situations where the light source is bright and behind the wearer, it can reduce glare and light going toward the wearer.

Chip

**For-Life** · 10-19-2006, 06:09 PM

We have these debates on tinted lenses and AR. The majority agree that on a lens that is tinted a backside AR is sufficient. However, I always take the theory of that as applied to a tint of 65-95 percent. But what about a tint or gradiant tint of 25-35 percent.