$99.00 Progressives and Frame?

[OptiJim]

Fezz,

You are correct in my opinion. I only have to say we are not smaller quality, we just don't do the volume of some of the bigger "brands". ]

I have always told my customers: Will our frames break? Hell yes they will, just as any frame will in the right situation. Judge me (us) on how we handle the situation pertaining to standing behind our product and just plainly taking care of business.

As far as competing with the $99 complete pair of PAL's in the frame arena, that is actually the harder decision since there are WAY MORE frames choices than lenses. If the sector of the market your are trying to service wants "name brand" then thats what you have to give to them. If your sector of the market can only spend $99 (remember that is 2 days net pay for alot of the population) then they will inevidibly(sp?) go where they can afford. If you actually believe that you cannot provide a very competent product to compete with the $99 complete pair with all the products on the markety today, then you might as well hang a sign on your door that says: "Unless you are prepared to spend $200, GO AWAY!"

Bottom line: Any shop that WANTS to compete with this can do so, its up to them.

[Fezz]

EncoreJim-

I think you misunderstood my post. I meant to say "smaller(as in size)", but "quality(as in good stuff for the $$)". I am sorry if I was not clear. It was meant as a sort of compliment.

:cheers:



Fezz
:cheers:

[OptiJim]

Well received and thank you!:cheers:

[optical24/7]

Hi Fezz. Yes, the Comfort is in the 15 year range. But this is the least expensive design we feel comfortable with. My above scenario was for the price shoppers that we all get. We certainly start by recommending the best possible product that match our patients needs. That may be Shamir, Zeiss, Younger or Varilux products. The Comfort is a great lens to have them price shop for. When they get a higher quote at the chains for this lens, they feel we are reasonable on all our product pricing.

[Fezz]

Optical 24/7,


Ok, I see and understand your point or angle. I figured that was the situation. Thanks.



Fezz
:cheers:

[vikramg]

Hi Fezz. Yes, the Comfort is in the 15 year range. But this is the least expensive design we feel comfortable with.

Optical 24/7 you couldnt have said it better ...

It is not the product but the price below which you wouldnt like to sell
a progressive ...

Well Bro.. the times are a changin ...

I guess the price of progressives are set to go into a free fall and I do not think the end customer would be any less satisfied due to this ...
as the newer, cheaper progressives all have the latest designs from top mould makers .

Mr Pete Hanlin of Essilor himself predicts this that in 14 years ,by 2020 AD .

1.) PALs have divided into two segments,
Commodity market= 80% with prices approximately equal to FT28s
Technology market= 20% with personalized designs that are either specific to a patient-driven or frame fit measurement

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18469

In India when chain stores want to do a promotion they offer a frame with a progressive for around 35 USD !!!

[optical24/7]

Hi vikramg. It's not the price of the lens that drives our decision to consider a Comfort our value lens of choice. There are many lenses in the same price range or lower out there. We simply haven't found a lens as successful at or below the cost of Comforts for our practice.

I would have no problem recommending or dispensing a less costly lens if I found one.

[jimius]

The biggest problems with these chain stores in the Netherlands is that, not only are they cheap (but hey, not everyone can afford high-end PALs (or cares about it)) but the staff is usually incompetent as well (cheap glasses means less profit means not enough money for qualified personell) and we get a lot of poeple in our store for "second opinions". They come in confessing that they bought their new glasses somewhere else and get shunned away there with their complaints with the cliche "you need to get used to it".

This happens about 3 times a month, sometimes even several times a week after the chain store in question has a sale. And I've seen some weird stuff. People being sold 300,- PAL lenses while they put in the Essilor Varifocus 2 (cheap chain store only product). Or having the PAL lenses put in the frame upside down (that would definetley need some getting used to).
Wrong Rx prescribtion is the biggest problem (stores can (and do) prescribe Rx in the netherlands). I'll never forget the joy on this one kid's face (about 16) when he heared he actually didn't need glasses while the chain store said he needed -1.25 OD/OS. [/rant]

Anyway, for the store where I work the chain stores are not our competitors. They are mostly incompetent in "our" trade. But their pricing schemes will not create customer loyalty. But good service and taking a customer/patient seriously will. Cheaper isn't nessecarily better, neither does it have to be worse.

[rob.optician]

it's all in presentation and philosophy. Every store/practice has their own.

Personally I don't even like to sell the same products available at chains like Wal-Mart.

With Luxottica and Essilor taking over the world that is getting more and more difficult.

[Johns]

Personally I don't even like to sell the same products available at chains like Wal-Mart.

With Luxottica and Essilor taking over the world that is getting more and more difficult.

Actually, it's getting easier! Most of the Lux stores are carying the same products !

[For-Life]

it's all in presentation and philosophy. Every store/practice has their own.

Personally I don't even like to sell the same products available at chains like Wal-Mart.

With Luxottica and Essilor taking over the world that is getting more and more difficult.

Essilor is taking over one level in a channel

Lux has moved vertically and horizontally

[EyeFitWell]

We loose very few patients to discounters, and it has been years since I sold a lens lessor than a Varilux Comfort. How do we do it? With the power of suggestion.

As an example.....Mrs. Brown comes in and informs us that she would just like a copy of her perscription. Sears or whom ever has a sale on progressive lenses. We ask her for just a few moments of her time so that we can inform her of her many options so that she can make an informed decision on what products will best suite her needs.

I start off by telling her that there are many progressive designs in the market, some 25 or more years old. I then take a peice of paper and draw the typical mushroom shape of the typical progressive design. I point to the area outside the stem and explain that in older lens designs, this area tends to be blurry due to old technology.

I mention how this tends to make the room "move" as you turn your head. I mention that these older designs have narrower corridors and won't have as much area for computer use. I also mention how these older lenses were designed for larger frames that were popular years ago, that you may not have as much reading area in smaller, modern frames.

I finish by telling the patient that we can get these older, cheaper design lenses also, but do not recomend them because of low patient satisfaction. I then give them my card with a price quote for Varilux Comfort, ask them to compare apples to oranges and let them know that I'll be happy to verify their Rx was made to the Dr's specs if they do make a purchase elsewhere.


It's funny how human nature works. When a patient that has been informed of the particular problems a certain design may have, they notice every one of them. But most of the time they go in asking for Varilux...and...our price is LOWER than Walmart or most any chain for that matter. Varilux is not the lens of choice at these places, so they price it extremely high. We look great in comparison. This by far has been our best weapon for fighting the price wars.

I agree completely with this approach. The other thing I explain is the difference in warranties. I feel that people DON'T compare apples to apples. They get my quote for a Physio and LC's quote on MVP or whatever, and they think it's the same product. So, I inform them about the competition's lenses. I also invite them to call me and talk about another store's offer. If it's reasonable, I'll try to match that price. If they truly are getting a good product for a better price that I can't match, so be it. Good for them.
Around here, it's really LC that is a main competetor. I had a patient a while back who had a $100 off coupon for LC. We quoted him for a V/C lens. Doc got generous and offered to honor that coupon on our price. I did as told, but I knew exactly what LC's pricing was like (I worked there about a year ago). Once the patient had left, I called LC and acted like a customer pricing a lens. I was told that "varilux is a new lens technology that allows us to make lenses thinner so they can be put into smaller frames." :hammer: After some convincing (and trying not to sound like I know what I know), I got a price on their comfort in plastic. If he had gone there and used his coupon, he would have still paid more than our price. Well, he got a great deal and Doc learned the evil of the large corporations. :)

[vikramg]

I would have no problem recommending or dispensing a less costly lens if I found one

24/7 .. it is not difficult to find a much better and cheaper lens and you dont have to take my word for this...

Dr Sheedy at Ohio Unversity has been doing excellent work comparing progressives . His 2006 survey finds Shamir Genesis and Younger Image as the among the best progressive lens at any price !!!

http://www.optometry.osu.edu/research/coor/4059.cfm

The above two lenses can be purchased at quiet a reasonable price, if know how to look around and if you really want to ...

[optical24/7]

Hi vikramg. I think Sheedy has done some excelent anlasys of current progressive designs. But there are no lens in his study that I can provide for my patients that are equal to or better in optics for the price I get Comforts for. ( I get them pretty low :D ).

There are many designs I consider better for given needs of the patient. I agree about the Shamir products. I like Zeiss and other Varilux products too. We start with recommending the best product for the given or paticular needs of the patient, but sometimes that comes down to the Comfort.

[Chris Ryser]

Well Bro.. the times are a changin ...

I guess the price of progressives are set to go into a free fall and I do not think the end customer would be any less satisfied due to this ...
as the newer, cheaper progressives all have the latest designs from top mould makers .


In India when chain stores want to do a promotion they offer a frame with a progressive for around 35 USD !!!

Well ...............well..............well

Considering that India is the newest big manufacturing country after China above statement should make all of you guy's and girls think a little harder on the politics of selling glasses in the retail business.

If products are available in India at base prices that can be sold for above mentioned retail cost, they should also be available at the same ratio on this continent already at the present time.

Instead of bickering around the presently sold and advertised brand names you should look forward to what is around the corner from you.

You probably can get top quality products at the fraction of the present prices. Specially when you think that the large corporations manufacture all your loved and advertised brand name progressives in the same corner of the world and pay the low price for them...............then resell them to you at higly inflated profits.

:finger:

[Fezz]

Hi vikramg. I think Sheedy has done some excelent anlasys of current progressive designs. But there are no lens in his study that I can provide for my patients that are equal to or better in optics for the price I get Comforts for. ( I get them pretty low :D ).

I believe that the Younger Image outperformed the Varilux Comfort. I highly doubt that you can get the Comfort for as little mony as you can purchase the Image.
So, here is a lens that outperfoms the Comfort. It is better in optics and cheaper!

Too bad Younger doesn't have this industry brainwashed like some of the BIG BOYS.

The power of advertising never ceases to amaze me.


Fezz
:cheers:

[optical24/7]

Thanks for the heads up Fezz. I'll give their rep a call and see if I can get a pair or two to compare.

[vikramg]

I think finally it all boils down to whether cheaper progressives are benefitial to the industry or not .

Most industry work on the premise that when you give good value for a product it grows the entire pie , look at Mobile phones industry ..

From my experience , the lower the end customer is charged for a pair of progressive, the higher is the adaptation rate.. as the end customers gets less fussy when he doesnt pay through his nose for a pair .

The quality of progressives has improved drastically in the last ten years for us to start pushing the line ," Progressives are not expensive keep two or more "

[Chris Ryser]

Too bad Younger doesn't have this industry brainwashed like some of the BIG BOYS.
The power of advertising never ceases to amaze me.

Advertising power doe not come from nothing. It does cost a lot to even make it effective, One only ad won't work at all...............you need a full series in different medias to get there.

You also have to have the bucks to do that..............and that money has come from sales of that product. Which means you have to price your products so it incorporates the advertising.

[Jim Mush]

Ok so in 2 days I have had 3 patients take the Rx to Sears (60miles away)to get the $99.00 sale on progressives and a frame. What the heck are these people getting for $99.00 Bucks? Not a varilux for sure...what type of warranty? I suppose I could try to get some cheap frames and cheap progressives and try to match them but do I realy want to sell lower end products? If anyone knows there quality of the product they receive on this sale please inform me so I can pass that onto my patients....Thanks

Would you need vluxes?
If they are happy, you just lost a customer. You can do like others and say to yourself "they will be back to me." They are MY people and I AM their walmart. Just let things cycle.

I'll see you at the unemployment office.

[icspots]

You can thank Luxottica our optical buddy for such creative merchandising. :drop:

Umm....hate to break it to you Matthew, but Sears has been doing this for years before Lux bought out Cole....sorry...not a Lux thing....I know you love to bash them.:finger:

[Johns]

...Sears has been doing this for years before Lux bought out Cole....:finger:

This is the very reason why we don't have to worry about the unemployment line, as some fear.

If you are looking to these mass merchandisers for direction, a $99 sale is the least of your problems.

Sears will drive you out of business!:D :hammer: :D

[Chris Ryser]

This is the very reason why we don't have to worry about the unemployment line, as some fear.

If you are looking to these mass merchandisers for direction, a $99 sale is the least of your problems.

I have an inkling that you are dead wromg with above statement. They are announcing that the bubble will finally burst in 2007.

When that happens your un-employment line will go around the block and people will purchase glasses only when absolutely needed and even then use the old frame if possible.

Who will be the winner or survivor depends on the attitude how to get prepared to act right when it happens. To me it looks like that Sears has taken the first steps and action to keep a market position in the coming recession.

[Johns]

Chris,

Market condtions affect us all. Independents (good ones) can react faster due to less overhead and the ability to make decisions faster. My stores can survive on $650k ea., but Sears is in the process of shutttering many of their freestanding stores that are doing anything under $700k.

[Chris Ryser]

Johns,

Thanks, just learned something. Are you translating Sears closings and their super low specials as an act of desparation or something else?