IZON Wavefront Prog. Lenses:Post your experience

[HarryChiling]

I absolutely hate to get back into this....no, there are no IZON experts. NO...the company won't tell you what the heck is up with the lens.
BUT...day after day....I dispense these lenses to absolutely extatic patients. As I dispensed one today to a patient, another was standing next to her ...the second patient had hers for perhaps six months. AS the first exclaimed how wonderful they were, the second said...just wait til you wear them a while. Both have been my patients for many many years. Both have worn the same Rx from me for years and years...and both stood there raving about the lenses. Smoke and mirrors...placebo...I really have no idea. All I can tell you is that almost no patient is not impressed. What does that mean...Who knows, but I believe that placebo only goes so far.
Now for what I started to write about. If its all BS...why is Zeiss "supposedly" selling a similar product in Europe. If it is all BS...why are they "supposedly" bringing it to the USA?
How silly will it look when someone else comes out with an abberation correcting lens based on an abberometer after stating that it can't be done.
I'll just sit back and watch.
For the moment, the lenses seem to make patients happy. For years, Essilor, Zeiss, Hoya, Kodak etc...have come out year after year with a better lens...can you imagine if we all argued this much about all of those lenses? Essilor claims you need their gadget to "measure eye movements".
Its a pretty cut throat industry and I am always looking for a slight edge.
This gives me something that seems to make a patient happy. Is that so terrible? Like I said, every company claims something about their lens.

The way base curves are selected for current Rx's is based on an assumption of a spherical corneal surface (which we should all know is not true). So best form curves make an assumption of spherical curves, if you were to use a cornela topographer and get an average eccentricity value for the cornea this data along with the Rx could theoretically be provided to a lab with FF or even different aspheric blanks to have ground with the true corrected form. I believe this may be an option for future lens options and would be far easier to implement than a varying index wafer pancaked within the substrate, the fact that the lens is stationary while the eye rotates makes the wafers effects moot at any point except straight ahead focus.

[xiaowei]

The way base curves are selected for current Rx's is based on an assumption of a spherical corneal surface (which we should all know is not true). So best form curves make an assumption of spherical curves, if you were to use a cornela topographer and get an average eccentricity value for the cornea this data along with the Rx could theoretically be provided to a lab with FF or even different aspheric blanks to have ground with the true corrected form. I believe this may be an option for future lens options and would be far easier to implement than a varying index wafer pancaked within the substrate, the fact that the lens is stationary while the eye rotates makes the wafers effects moot at any point except straight ahead focus.

Interesting idea, but I don´t really "buy into it". The reason is again the moving eye. When gazing, it´s not that the "gaze" rotates around the stationary eye, going through different parts of the cornea with different curvature. The whole eye rotates and "gazes" every time through the same front portion!

小卫

[Craig]

I absolutely hate to get back into this....no, there are no IZON experts. NO...the company won't tell you what the heck is up with the lens.

That is because there is nothing special about the lens, it is a standard free form lens and has nothing to do with High Order Correction. The machine is a fancy auto-refractor and printout has absolutly nothing to do with the lens received from Ophthonix. ASK THEM HOW THERE LENS IS DIFFERENT THAN AN OTHER FREE FORM DESIGN AND WHAT THEY DO WITH THE BARCODE!!

BUT...day after day....I dispense these lenses to absolutely extatic patients. As I dispensed one today to a patient, another was standing next to her ...the second patient had hers for perhaps six months. AS the first exclaimed how wonderful they were, the second said...just wait til you wear them a while. Both have been my patients for many many years. Both have worn the same Rx from me for years and years...and both stood there raving about the lenses. Smoke and mirrors...placebo...I really have no idea. All I can tell you is that almost no patient is not impressed. What does that mean...Who knows, but I believe that placebo only goes so far.

MY STORES HAVE BEEN DISPENSING FREE FROM AND GETTING THE WOW RESULTS FOR OVER 4 YEARS, THAT IS THE KEY AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OVERPRICED LENSES FROM OPHTHONIX. TRY THE KODAK UNIQUE OR THE ICE TECH LENS FOR THE SAME RESULTS, IF NOT MUCH BETTER. I HAD MORE PROBLEMS WITH THE READING AREA ON THE IZON PROGRESSIVE THAN ALL OTHER LENS COMBINED, PEOPLE DID NOT LIKE THE READING AREA ON THE IZON LENS. WE PUT THE SAME RX IN THE KODAK UNIQUE AND THE CLIENT WAS THRILLED WITH THE LENSES AND ESPECIALLY THE READING AREA.

Now for what I started to write about. If its all BS...why is Zeiss "supposedly" selling a similar product in Europe. If it is all BS...why are they "supposedly" bringing it to the USA?
How silly will it look when someone else comes out with an abberation correcting lens based on an abberometer after stating that it can't be done.

THAT WOULD BE FINE IF THE IZON LENS DID ACTUALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH BEING AN ABBERATION CORRECTING LENS; IT DOES NOT NOR IS THE ZEISS PRODUCT. BOTH ARE PRESUMED TO GET A MORE ACCURATE SPHERE/CYLINDER RX BY UTILIZING THE HOA'S OF THE INDIVIDUALS EYE. BUT ZEISS HAS NEVER CLAIMED TO PUT HIGH ORDER CORRECTION IN THE LENS, WHILE OPHTHONIX USED TO MAKE THIS CLAIM (I HAVE COPIES AND HAVE POSTED PROOF) THEY AVOID THE ISSUE NOW AND WON'T ADMIT THE LENS HAS ABSOLUTLY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CORRECTION OF HIGH ORDER ABBERATIONS.



I'll just sit back and watch.
For the moment, the lenses seem to make patients happy. For years, Essilor, Zeiss, Hoya, Kodak etc...have come out year after year with a better lens...can you imagine if we all argued this much about all of those lenses? Essilor claims you need their gadget to "measure eye movements".
Its a pretty cut throat industry and I am always looking for a slight edge.
This gives me something that seems to make a patient happy. Is that so terrible? Like I said, every company claims something about their lens.

I don't represent any company, I only speak from experience and actual results. I tried to bring free from to the US market with Pentax and then SEiko bought them to kill the deal. ALL REAL FREE FORM WORKS! Some work better than others, while the Varilux 360 products are not free form. The Ipseo is the only one offered by Varilux at this point that is considered free form.


Try some other brands and compare the results, service and price. I am sure you will find out that there is no reason to order the Izon lens and support a company that has not been truthful with the technology they pretended to have and now just don't discuss it.

Craig

[HarryChiling]

Interesting idea, but I don´t really "buy into it". The reason is again the moving eye. When gazing, it´s not that the "gaze" rotates around the stationary eye, going through different parts of the cornea with different curvature. The whole eye rotates and "gazes" every time through the same front portion!

小卫

True, it would only offer a gain in a striaght ahead gaze, but it would also cost less than incorporateing a wafer inside the lens and heck with a little marketing magic sprinkled in most opticians would think they were sellign the equivalent of gold. Heck the testimonials here are stateing how great the lenses are with the people sellign them admitadely not understanding the technology behind the lens, that's gotta tell you something.

I enjoy your responses very much, xiaowei thank you for shareing them.

[eromitlab]

The practice I work in has now been dispensing iZon lenses for about 5 months. We've dispensed about 250 pair. I only know of a handful of cases where the lenses were problematic, and most of those were resolved with correcting some measurements and Rx tweaks. The overwhelming majority response: things seem a lot clearer than before, but I wouldn't say that it's mind blowing (I'm paraphrasing).

So, the lenses are certainly better than most stuff we've tried here in the so-called freeform process category, at least from the reception we have from our patients. I don't have a pair yet, so I can't offer my own perceptions. I'm not really in a hurry to get my free pair, either... I'm very happy with my Physio 360 lenses and don't really see the need to change into something else.

Is it placebo? no. Is it everything they make it out to be? not quite.

The product is something that is better than most (in our experience here) and our patients seem to like it for the most part. We know how to identify the right people and the not quite right people for the lens and we have been largely successful. We have happy patients, and that's all we really care about...

[john-atlanta]

What does Craig and Dr P others think of the iPrint as an autorefractor?

Lets say one never intended to dispense the lenses, but was looking to cut their refraction time dramatically? How good is it at zeroing in on the cyl and axis? I have been told by others I respect that it is basically +/- 0.50 sphere check and you are done.

As an aside, anyone heard of or used the wavefront aberrometer and corneal topographer called the iTrace from Tracey technologies? Again they claim to manufacture CL's that correct HOA.

My interest is NOT in the lenses but in the ability to get the worlds most accurate autorefraction and reduce my refraction time so I can spend more time communicating with patients about their eye health and visual needs.

[bhess25]

so if you realy believe in this goo crap....do you want to meet santa claus?...not much of a difference is there?...if there is no scientific proof, then it doesnt exist.

[xiaowei]

As an aside, anyone heard of or used the wavefront aberrometer and corneal topographer called the iTrace from Tracey technologies? Again they claim to manufacture CL's that correct HOA.

There is some info on this in another pretty interesting EyeCare Forum

D'Eyealogues

http://www.lasermyeye.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1336

Besides this site has also some interesting pro and con reviews on Izon
glasses! Strange that I never had found this link before!

小卫

[eromitlab]

supposedly Wavetouch technologies is also entering the Wavefront-guided contact lens arena with Marco. The 3D Wave instrument can be set up to send the data directly to Wavetouch for lens fabrication. The doc I work for was telling me that he is considering the technology, but wants to see how well it's received first. I haven't done any digging yet because he's still unsure as to whether or not he wants to go to that expense.

as for iZon... I'm not going to comment anymore on the subject. I think it is a product worth some merits as well as having some flaws, but then again, there is no lens available to mankind that can provide a miraculous vision enhancement... there's no laying on of hands, but there may be a few televangelist-types behind the marketing. The product works well enough for the right person, the proof is in the patients I have dealt with at work.

If that's not enough... :)

[Craig]

What does Craig and Dr P others think of the iPrint as an autorefractor?

Lets say one never intended to dispense the lenses, but was looking to cut their refraction time dramatically? How good is it at zeroing in on the cyl and axis? I have been told by others I respect that it is basically +/- 0.50 sphere check and you are done.

As an aside, anyone heard of or used the wavefront aberrometer and corneal topographer called the iTrace from Tracey technologies? Again they claim to manufacture CL's that correct HOA.

My interest is NOT in the lenses but in the ability to get the worlds most accurate autorefraction and reduce my refraction time so I can spend more time communicating with patients about their eye health and visual needs.

The Ophthonix machine is the only one in the world to differ in the way it goes about measuring the eyes; there might be a good reason. I did over 1,000 tests on the Ophthonix and was blown away by the other products in the market. The one from Nidek (Marco) and one from Israel were far more accurate, flexible and gave more consistent results.

There is no reason to do business with Ophthonix for just the machine.

CRaig:hammer:

[john-atlanta]

The one from Nidek (Marco) and one from Israel were far more accurate, flexible and gave more consistent results.


CRaig:hammer:

Who is the company from Israel?

[Craig]

Who is the company from Israel?

Here is a link to the machine.
http://www.visionix.com/site/prod/l80/l80.asp?s=labs

I looked at the machine last year in NY at EXPO, it was brand new and was far more accurate than the Ophthonix machine.

Best of Luck!
Craig

[Bobie]

I would like to hear more comment about L80 Wave+


:cheers:

[sharonseyes]

"Kuddos" to you Eyepod, for giving this board a talking to. Such negativity is discouraging. We really need to keep open minds about new Technology. We just signed on with IZON. I will have my new pair in 2-3 weeks. Here in Iowa we are moving ahead and offering our patients the chance to expericence this new technology. :cheers:

[Craig]

"Kuddos" to you Eyepod, for giving this board a talking to. Such negativity is discouraging. We really need to keep open minds about new Technology. We just signed on with IZON. I will have my new pair in 2-3 weeks. Here in Iowa we are moving ahead and offering our patients the chance to expericence this new technology. :cheers:

Take a few minutes to read above and you will find out that the Izon lens is just a free form lens that turns brown over time from UV. I have one on my desk from 1.5 years ago and it looks like it has a brown tint on it. There is no programming in the lens; it is a best sphere-cyl RX in a poorly designed lens.
THERE IS NO PROGRAMMING FOR HIGH ORDER ABBERATIONS!!!
Don't sell the hype; try any other free from lens made and you will have better success.
Craig

[Bobie]

L80 Wave+ is 19,800 EURO, if I order from France.
Can I have better price from other distributor?

[au]

Hi Bobie,

Why don't you spread into 3 piece of machine instead of 1 because if one

part of machine cause problems, what happen to the others ? The

maintenance may not be as quick as you wish.

Also you can have bigger area for those machine.

:cheers:

[Bobie]

Good idea! :D

[Craig]

"Kuddos" to you Eyepod, for giving this board a talking to. Such negativity is discouraging. We really need to keep open minds about new Technology. We just signed on with IZON. I will have my new pair in 2-3 weeks. Here in Iowa we are moving ahead and offering our patients the chance to expericence this new technology. :cheers:

Did they tell you this was part of the expereince!:idea:

I have used a camera phone to show you what happens to the "Izonik Goo" after time; it looks like a dark yellow/brown line down the middle. Every one of our clients has noticed and the lenses also continue to become very brittle over time. As they yellow, the chance of breakage in a drill-mount goes up; we break most simply by taking apart to replace the lenses. They were very strong lenses when first built and become weak with age and UV exposure.

I have many rejected and yellow lenses on my desk for anyone who cares to see them.
Craig-

[xiaowei]

Did they tell you this was part of the expereince!:idea:

I have used a camera phone to show you what happens to the "Izonik Goo" after time; it looks like a dark yellow/brown line down the middle. Every one of our clients has noticed and the lenses also continue to become very brittle over time. As they yellow, the chance of breakage in a drill-mount goes up; we break most simply by taking apart to replace the lenses. They were very strong lenses when first built and become weak with age and UV exposure.

I have many rejected and yellow lenses on my desk for anyone who cares to see them.
Craig-

Interesting, given the fact that there is no high order programming and it´s also not possible in any reasonable way over an extended field of view, I would have bet they also left any "Goo" out, as the costumer cannot tell anyhow. Nice picture!

This was one the question I tried to ask at an Izonik presentation here in Germany over time: "If you really can do any programming, how do you guarantee that it´s completely stable over time?", but got no convincing answer.

XW

[DragonLensmanWV]

"Kuddos" to you Eyepod, for giving this board a talking to. Such negativity is discouraging. We really need to keep open minds about new Technology. We just signed on with IZON. I will have my new pair in 2-3 weeks. Here in Iowa we are moving ahead and offering our patients the chance to expericence this new technology. :cheers:

I think there is a fair amount of objectivity about these Magic lenses. Others that are far cheaper work just as well, and have better longevity.
To me, it's Optical Snake Oil.

[rinselberg]

. . . I have used a camera phone to show you what happens to the "Izonik Goo" after time; it looks like a dark yellow/brown line down the middle. Every one of our clients has noticed and the lenses also continue to become very brittle over time. As they yellow, the chance of breakage in a drill-mount goes up; we break most simply by taking apart to replace the lenses. They were very strong lenses when first built and become weak with age and UV exposure.

I have many rejected and yellow lenses on my desk for anyone who cares to see them.
Craig-

Upon viewing your attachment (thanks!) I see a brown "stripe" around the edge of the lens.

Does the interior area of the lens also turn brown like this--or does it only happen at the outer edge of the lens as seen in that photo that you attached?

I don't mean to be a nuisance, but perhaps you could make a photograph with the lens sitting flat on top of some white paper to add to your commentary.

[Craig]

Upon viewing your attachment (thanks!) I see a brown "stripe" around the edge of the lens.

Does the interior area of the lens also turn brown like this--or does it only happen at the outer edge of the lens as seen in that photo that you attached?

I don't mean to be a nuisance, but perhaps you could make a photograph with the lens sitting flat on top of some white paper to add to your commentary.

The lenses start out with a slight ting of yellow and it has gone to a brown/yellow over time. I have attached a photo and placed another lens next to it for comparision. The Ophthonix lens looks like an old transitions lens with the jaundis look.
Beware of false claims of correcting for high order and actually putting the correction in the lens.
Craig

[Bobie]

How many years guaranteed for iZon lenses?

[Raanan Bavli]

Other than the issues of the measurement of the eye, and the lens design process, there's an important question related to their ability to produce the desined lens.
My question is: Has anyone here received power and astigmatism maps from Ophthonix?
For those of you who have returned lenses, I'm willing to map thse lenses and post the power and astigmatism maps here.