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Thread: IZON Wavefront Prog. Lenses:Post your experience

  1. #76
    lens-o-matic bhess25's Avatar
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    I talked to a very very inteligent doctor here in cleveland right after he went to vegas and seen the aberometer at work. Now this is a great idea for contacts, because you can move your eye and still have clear vision, Once he got his Izon lenses (he has some serious higher orders abbs) everytime he moved his eyes he cringed. This technology is great for like i said a contact, something that stays with your eye, but the slightest movement and goodbye, abberations get worse. Besides higher order abberations in most (over 89% of the population) people only account for aproximately 12% of your vision. Is it cost effective to account for 12% and having to look like a robot and turn your whole body to see that train hitting your car (allthough it could be fun just looking a little off the side and seing 10 trains), im gonna go with...i wouldnt say no, more like hell no!!..this technology will never be capable of being used in an opthalmic lens, it should only be used for contacts!!!..unless you realy do enjoy fun house mirrors!!...more ways to rip people off...aint technology great?!!!!

  2. #77
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    Izon Is Not Smoke And Mirrors

    OK...I can speak as an "optometrist" who has dispensed close to 500 of these lenses. Craig is an "optician" who seems to have a problem with the company and is venting on this forum. He has financial issues with the company which he does not mention. He mentions somewhere in the dozens of hate mails he issues..."over thirty returned".
    That they owe him $30K...at 300/pair that would be 100 pair returned...but lets not split hairs.
    Here is the straight and narrow and eyepod said it before I posted this.."THEY WORK!"
    As to why they work, I am not even sure the company fully understands why they work better, but I had a conversation with a researcher at the University of Texas the other day which shed some light on why they work.
    NONE of which is contained or even could be contained in any of the posts from everyone who is familiar with low order abberations.
    Hope this doesn't bore too many folks.
    My research friend doesn't even know IZONs exist.
    His research indicates that in the visual cortex there are striations that detect..horizontal lines, vertical lines, thickness and finally "color".
    He will be presenting this at a meeting of NeuroVision researchers in of all places ....the burning San Diego on like Nov 1.
    Since color is the most important component of the patient's vision, the "glue" Izon uses that corrects ? Chromatic Abberation...is probably the factor in the success of their lenses. The rest if "probably" just the free form technology which they apply to SV as well as bifocal lenses when most of us cannot order a SV freeform...Daryl, feel free to correct me since I am not aware of the ease of ordering freeform SV...but again, what no one seems aware of is the glue which spreads from left to right on the lens.
    Personally, I have returned about 10 pair out of close to 500. Most were my fault for selecting patients with macular disorders trying to help them and finding that the change wasn't enough to make them happy.
    NO lens can please everyone!
    some of you have contacted me personally and I will be happy to discuss my results with you...but my fingers are tired now...
    if you send me a personal message, please give me a phone number and I will call you back. NO< I do not work for now nor have I ever for Ophthonix.
    I can include dozens of testimonials, but who really cares. I am selling them successfully, and that is all that matters to me.
    Who cares what Craig or Panzer says...what we all care is what the patients say.
    I have (as we all do....) one patient who after getting a pair was so taken that he bought 4 more pair. My staff each have two pair and can no longer wear their 8 other pair...
    Allan J. Panzer,O.D.
    Houston, Texas:)

  3. #78
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    I am glad your patients like IZON lenses

    However, some of your offered explanations for why they are a success suggest a fundamental misunderstanding of the latest theories connected with neural processing.

    For example:

    No less an authority than Dr. Jack Holliday has re-stated in his new book that:

    1. The human eye is an significantly-decentered optical system, which introduces both coma and chromatic aberration that degrade the potential PSF performance of the eye's nominal f/number(s) by up to 40&#37;.

    2. The negative errors of these decentered elements *are not obvious* to us because neural processing has *filtered out* symmetrical errors between the eyes through evolution (Do any of us really see color or coma around stars with corrected-naked vision?)

    The research is still on-going regarding our understanding of neural vision processing.

    FWIW

    Barry
    Last edited by Barry Santini; 10-23-2007 at 11:09 AM.

  4. #79
    Allen Weatherby
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    Please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.P View Post
    OK...I can speak as an "optometrist" who has dispensed close to 500 of these lenses. Craig is an "optician" who seems to have a problem with the company and is venting on this forum. He has financial issues with the company which he does not mention. He mentions somewhere in the dozens of hate mails he issues..."over thirty returned".
    That they owe him $30K...at 300/pair that would be 100 pair returned...but lets not split hairs.
    Here is the straight and narrow and eyepod said it before I posted this.."THEY WORK!"
    As to why they work, I am not even sure the company fully understands why they work better, but I had a conversation with a researcher at the University of Texas the other day which shed some light on why they work.
    NONE of which is contained or even could be contained in any of the posts from everyone who is familiar with low order abberations.
    Hope this doesn't bore too many folks.
    My research friend doesn't even know IZONs exist.
    His research indicates that in the visual cortex there are striations that detect..horizontal lines, vertical lines, thickness and finally "color".
    He will be presenting this at a meeting of NeuroVision researchers in of all places ....the burning San Diego on like Nov 1.
    Since color is the most important component of the patient's vision, the "glue" Izon uses that corrects ? Chromatic Abberation...is probably the factor in the success of their lenses. The rest if "probably" just the free form technology which they apply to SV as well as bifocal lenses when most of us cannot order a SV freeform...Daryl, feel free to correct me since I am not aware of the ease of ordering freeform SV...but again, what no one seems aware of is the glue which spreads from left to right on the lens.
    Personally, I have returned about 10 pair out of close to 500. Most were my fault for selecting patients with macular disorders trying to help them and finding that the change wasn't enough to make them happy.
    NO lens can please everyone!
    some of you have contacted me personally and I will be happy to discuss my results with you...but my fingers are tired now...
    if you send me a personal message, please give me a phone number and I will call you back. NO< I do not work for now nor have I ever for Ophthonix.
    I can include dozens of testimonials, but who really cares. I am selling them successfully, and that is all that matters to me.
    Who cares what Craig or Panzer says...what we all care is what the patients say.
    I have (as we all do....) one patient who after getting a pair was so taken that he bought 4 more pair. My staff each have two pair and can no longer wear their 8 other pair...
    Allan J. Panzer,O.D.
    Houston, Texas:)
    I would like an explaination from you for all of our benefits regarding this technology from Izon. You have dispensed over 500 pair and with good results. My question is how do you know that the patient satisfaction and benefit is any better with the Izon lenses with the glue in the middle vs the same backside PAL design on a 1.60 42 abbe value lens?

    My concern is that with high order abberations needing correction for issues with specific point problems within the eye on a lens where the eye travel is not fix like a contact, that this will never provide any benefit other than looking straight ahead. No benefit for the use of the lower part of the lens.

    Now you know my concerns please address these points.

  5. #80
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    Reply to questions

    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH View Post
    I would like an explaination from you for all of our benefits regarding this technology from Izon. You have dispensed over 500 pair and with good results. My question is how do you know that the patient satisfaction and benefit is any better with the Izon lenses with the glue in the middle vs the same backside PAL design on a 1.60 42 abbe value lens?

    I cannot know because I am not able to reproduce their back surface.
    All I can tell you is that patients with no change in rx are significantly impressed.

    My concern is that with high order abberations needing correction for issues with specific point problems within the eye on a lens where the eye travel is not fix like a contact, that this will never provide any benefit other than looking straight ahead. No benefit for the use of the lower part of the lens.

    Not one patient has expressed any concern about off centered viewing.
    NOT one! So, I realize your concerns and I had the same concerns until I started dispensing them. I have posted some of my patients e-mails in the past. I can only speak for the current ones and say that they seem to like them better than any previous. Have I put them up against a 360? No. Have I put them up against a Unique....? Yes! Another optometrist who has every type of progressive ordered a pair through me. When he put them on, his first reaction was that they were terrible...after about ten minutes he felt that they were as good or better than Unique. That said, you must select patients based on complaints. If the patient has zero complaints with their current Rx, there seems to be little improvement.


    WE all have questions and the money is significant. But the doctors and others who have worn them seem to think there is a difference.:)

    Now you know my concerns please address these points.
    I hope this answers some of your questions.

  6. #81
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    Confused No less an authority?

    [quote=Barry Santini;210654]However, some of your offered explanations for why they are a success suggest a fundamental misunderstanding of the latest theories connected with neural processing.

    For example:

    No less an authority than Dr. Jack Holliday has re-stated in his new book that:

    1. The human eye is an significantly-decentered optical system, which introduces both coma and chromatic aberration that degrade the potential PSF performance of the eye's nominal f/number(s) by up to 40%.
    AND THIS MAKES IT SO.....

    Dr. "Holladay's"OFFICE IS DOWN THE STREET FROM MINE.
    HE IS A FINE DOCTOR...BUT, IS HE A NEURO RESEARCHER? I CAN CLEARLY ANSWER THAT HIS INFORMATION IS GLEANED SOMEWHERE ELSE.
    MINE IS GLEANED FROM ACTUAL NEURO SCIENTISTS, NOT PRACTICING OPHTHALMOLOGISTS, NO MATTER HOW SMART.
    MINE HAS YET TO BE PRESENTED AND WILL...OR WOULD BE PRESENTED NEXT WEEK IN SAN DIEGO WERE THE WHOLE THING NOT ON FIRE.
    2. The negative errors of these decentered elements *are not obvious* to us because neural processing has *filtered out* symmetrical errors between the eyes through evolution (Do any of us really see color or coma around stars with corrected-naked vision?)

    I HAVE NO IDEA?
    MY SOURCE IS REFERRING TO NEURAL PROCESSING..I WAS JUST BRINGING UP A POSSIBLE...NOT GOSPEL IDEA FOR WHY THEY 'MIGHT' WORK.

    The research is still on-going regarding our understanding of neural vision processing.

    FWIW
    I COMPLETELY AGREE..ONGOING...BUT NOT WRITTEN IN STONE BY DR. HOLLADAY'S LATEST BOOK!

    NOTE THE CORRECT SPELLING OF HIS NAME....

    btw....for the record....other than reading his latest book, exactly what makes you so certain I have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the visual system works? Are you a neuro researcher? I certainly am not.

  7. #82
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    I have never worked with an IZON lens but am in agreement with other posters that the eye is not static and that the technology would be better suited to contact lenses.

    I am in no way saying that the success rate that you report or others report isn't true but ECP have a unique ability to influence patients by their enthusiasm and/or belief in a technology or product. If the same patients were given a free form design progressive/single vision lens or a stock atoric single vision lens they would experience great visual benefits since these 2 lenses are optimized across the lens. You might want to try either of these more affordable options that have clear, scientific understanding and see what your results are then.

    Doc

  8. #83
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Question

    Last edited by Barry Santini; 10-23-2007 at 07:52 PM.

  9. #84
    Allen Weatherby
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    Good Post

    Quote Originally Posted by DocInChina View Post
    I have never worked with an IZON lens but am in agreement with other posters that the eye is not static and that the technology would be better suited to contact lenses.

    I am in no way saying that the success rate that you report or others report isn't true but ECP have a unique ability to influence patients by their enthusiasm and/or belief in a technology or product. If the same patients were given a free form design progressive/single vision lens or a stock atoric single vision lens they would experience great visual benefits since these 2 lenses are optimized across the lens. You might want to try either of these more affordable options that have clear, scientific understanding and see what your results are then.

    Doc
    I think Doc in China has made a clear understandable restatement of my questions. Is there a difference between a great individualized free form lens and an Izon lens. If I were selling as many as some of you are it would be interesting to see if Izon will make you a test pair to sample. Same RX: 1- 1.60 with Izon glue and Izon backside Pal. 2- 1.60 spherical blank without Izon glue and same backside PAL design. Then mount both in the same fame and wear test.

  10. #85
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Dr. P:

    I've re-read my post after viewing your reply, and I want to apologize for wording that appears to impune your thinking on IZON. I'm sorry for any offense you've taken because of my post

    I am not a neural scientist. I am, however, extremely well-trained in geometrical optics as a result of 22+ years as the Product and Marketing Manager for Tele Vue Optics (www.televue.com). I learned my expanded knowledge of geometrical optics working alongside the president of Tele Vue, Al Nagler. Al Nagler led the design and construction of NASA's Gemini, Apollo and Lunar landing (optical) simulators. You might want to read some of my articles on Televue's website regarding ophthalmic subjects for lay readers.

    Thanks for correcting my spelling. I still believe that the cement used in IZON contributes nothing to their performance on color correction.

    Barry

  11. #86
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    Studies show that a person will only cut their eyes about 15&#37; before turning their head.
    It depends very much on the task. For critical viewing tasks over a relatively small field, such as reading, for instance, there is often comparatively little head movement. The edge of an 8.5" x 11" piece of paper represents around 7.5 mm of decentration at the spectacle plane (or roughly 15 degrees), which is around two pupil radii under typical conditions. And this is ignoring the vertical centration often associated with single vision lenses, since the pupil center of the eye is rarely positioned at the datum (180) line of the frame.

    Further, although head movement often represents a greater contribution to gaze change for larger fixation angles, whether you're a "head mover" or an "eye mover," there is still a significant displacement of the line of sight from the center of the lens during and after the execution of the corresponding eye and head movements.

    Since the contribution of lower-order aberrations, such as sphere and cylinder errors, at one pupil radius becomes roughly equal in magnitude to any higher-order aberrations eliminated at the center of the correction, this places drastic limits on the visual benefits afforded by higher-order wavefront corrections in spectacle lenses. Further, the error in lower-order aberrations continues to increase away from the center. See, for instance, Guirao et al. "Effect of rotation and translation on the expected benefit of an ideal method to correct the eye's higher order aberration," J Opt Soc Am A, 85(15).

    The wavefront correction is mostly in the center third of the lens, but, the programming is "fanned out into the periphery and is dependent on a few things. The wavefront in the periph. is recalculated based on changes to the vertex when a patient looks to the side
    This will actually have a surprisingly small effect upon vision for wearers, since the difference in effective vertex distance will generally introduce only very small differences in power. At 15 degrees, the difference in power as a result of curvature differences between the far-point sphere of the eye and the back surface radius of the lens would be less than 0.05 D for the vast majority of prescriptions. The effects of the base curve or lens design on peripheral aberrations, such as oblique astigmatism, will be considerably greater.

    Also, maintaining a full correction of higher-order aberrations from the center to the periphery would result in extraordinarily high sphere and cylinder errors, which -- even if visually feasible -- would probably exceed the limits of the optical changes realizable by a thin gradient index layer. On the other hand, if the correction is not consistently maintained from the center to the periphery, optical discontinuities of some form between the central and peripheral regions would occur. Either way, vision must be compromised at some point.

    That said, If your patients are happy with these lenses, whether they are truly experiencing improved visual performance or simply experiencing a "placebo effect" associated with purchasing a premium (or at least expensive) lens design, combined with the visual benefits of a new spectacle refraction, I would be the first to encourage you to continue offering them.
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  12. #87
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    You are the only Izon fan left, even the founder is gone!

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.P View Post
    OK...I can speak as an "optometrist" who has dispensed close to 500 of these lenses. Craig is an "optician" who seems to have a problem with the company and is venting on this forum. He has financial issues with the company which he does not mention. He mentions somewhere in the dozens of hate mails he issues..."over thirty returned".
    That they owe him $30K...at 300/pair that would be 100 pair returned...but lets not split hairs.
    Here is the straight and narrow and eyepod said it before I posted this.."THEY WORK!"
    As to why they work, I am not even sure the company fully understands why they work better, but I had a conversation with a researcher at the University of Texas the other day which shed some light on why they work.
    NONE of which is contained or even could be contained in any of the posts from everyone who is familiar with low order abberations.
    Hope this doesn't bore too many folks.
    My research friend doesn't even know IZONs exist.
    His research indicates that in the visual cortex there are striations that detect..horizontal lines, vertical lines, thickness and finally "color".
    He will be presenting this at a meeting of NeuroVision researchers in of all places ....the burning San Diego on like Nov 1.
    Since color is the most important component of the patient's vision, the "glue" Izon uses that corrects ? Chromatic Abberation...is probably the factor in the success of their lenses. The rest if "probably" just the free form technology which they apply to SV as well as bifocal lenses when most of us cannot order a SV freeform...Daryl, feel free to correct me since I am not aware of the ease of ordering freeform SV...but again, what no one seems aware of is the glue which spreads from left to right on the lens.
    Personally, I have returned about 10 pair out of close to 500. Most were my fault for selecting patients with macular disorders trying to help them and finding that the change wasn't enough to make them happy.
    NO lens can please everyone!
    some of you have contacted me personally and I will be happy to discuss my results with you...but my fingers are tired now...
    if you send me a personal message, please give me a phone number and I will call you back. NO< I do not work for now nor have I ever for Ophthonix.
    I can include dozens of testimonials, but who really cares. I am selling them successfully, and that is all that matters to me.
    Who cares what Craig or Panzer says...what we all care is what the patients say.
    I have (as we all do....) one patient who after getting a pair was so taken that he bought 4 more pair. My staff each have two pair and can no longer wear their 8 other pair...
    Allan J. Panzer,O.D.
    Houston, Texas:)
    First of all you are correct, we have returned 100 pairs of Izon progressive lenses; I have 14 more on my desk.

    EVERY ONE OF THEM WAS RETURNED BY AN UNHAPPY CLIENT BECAUSE OF DIFFICULTIES WITH THE INTERMEDIATE AND THE NEAR; ALL OF THEM WE PUT IN ANOTHER LENS IN THE SAME RX WITH 100% SUCCESS!

    I did not volunteer to replace all the lenses at my expense, but we needed to take care of our clients. Think of the cost of replacing 100 pair of free-form progressives and tell me who has sour grapes and who is allowing themself to conned by this technology. I can provide all the replacement invoices and have offered to allow the new CEO of Ophthonix to contact any of the folks who have returned the lenses.

    THEY HAVE NOT GOTTEN BACK TO ME ON THIS!! I have nothing to hide.

    You may want to know why the founder and CEO was asked to leave the company? If this is such an amazing invention don't you think they might want and need him in the future.

    You are the only person defending this abberation dribble and you admit you don't have a clue or does Ophthonix have an idea as to the validity of this technology!!

    You failed to mention that you and I spoke at length and I was the one who explained the possibliites of a certain color wavelenght that could help with night vision; I had discussed this with Allen at Ice-Tech 8 months ago. I also told you of my financial battle with them.

    Good thing I paid with my American Express!

    Sorry for just being an "Optician"; you may be an OD, but you really don't seem to understand basic lens optics and how they are even placed in the lens. I would like to suggest a few on-line educational pieces on how lenses are created and the advantages of a real free-form lens.

    If you read what everyone, except yourself, is saying that the premise of the technology has no pratical applications in a pair of spectacle lenses. There is not one person on this forum who feels the product works and can explain it in any terms. This includes yourself and Ophthonix; when you have the slightest clue how this works and can show any quantatative results, please let me know and I will eat the 14 pair on my desk!!

    Until that time comes, you might want to only offer opinions on subjects that you can actually understand and explain. Didn't they teach you that in OD school; I can just imagine the explanation you give the clients why they are paying almost twice as much for these lenses and you can't even describe it to industry professionals.

    You may want to add:
    WHO CARES WHAT DR. P SAYS, HE SELLS TECHNOLGY HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND- AS LONG AS THE CLIENTS PAY FOR IT WHATS THE DIFFERENCE IF IT WORKS.

    Look forward to your response and explantion.

    Craig- just an optician who does his homework:bbg:

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    iZon and Wavefront Correction

    This is from a sci.med.vision thread about attempting to correct higher order aberrations with lenses. Some of what I say has been mentioned in this thread, but I thought I'd add my two cents:

    The HUGE problem with attempting to incorporate wavefront correcting Higher Order Aberration (HOA) correction into lenses is registration. The slightest misalignment of optics to correction causes a cascading effect and degradation of vision.

    I am relatively knowledgeable of optic wavefront analysis in humans and the use of wavefront-guided corneal ablation during Lasik and similar refractive surgery with the goal of correcting Lower Order Aberration (LOA), which is sphere and cylinder, and not inducing HOA, which is commonly represented in Zernike polynomials.

    I have just returned from a medical convention where iZon had a booth. I have always been suspicious of iZon's "wavefront glasses" because I understand the role of registration in HOA correction. Let me give a (believe it or not) simple example.

    The Zernike polynomial Spherical Aberration (SA) can be described as the periphery of the optic having a different spherical refractive error as the center. A person can be plano in the middle of the optic and a have a 2.00 myopic ring around the edges.

    Make an "O" with your right thumb and finger, put it in front of you, look through the center, and imagine that this represents the SA. Center is plano, your fingers represent a ring that is -2.00. Now make a circle with your left thumb and finger. This circle is a lens created to correct the SA. The outer ring has 2.00 diopters of correction and the center is plano. Align the two rings together. This is the theoretical correction of the HOA known as Spherical Aberration with the use of a lens. What is -2.00 in the optic of the right hand is corrected with a perfectly aligned 2.00 lens.

    Now move your left hand to the left and take the two O's out of alignment. What have you done?

    Where the lens (left hand) is over the plano portion of the optic (right hand), you have created 2.00 diopters of hyperopia, but only where these two planes intersect. Where the lens is over the myopic portion of the optic you have plano. Where there is no lens over the plano center of the optic you have plano. What you have created is the HOA known as Horizontal Coma, which is on the next level down the Zernike pyramid. All this by simply changing the alignment of the lens to the optics.

    And that is only with SA, which is probably the least exotic of the Zernike polynomials of HOA. Each time you misalign optic to correction at a Zernike, you induce HOA for each lower level of the Zernike pyramid, cascading down through an infinite number of mathematical possibilities.

    That is a long way to say that you cannot correct HOA if you cannot align the correction precisely to the aberrated optic. When you get down to the seventh level of Zernike, which is what iZon says their aberrometer measures, you are talking about alignment with a tolerance of less than a portion of microns and less than a percentage of a single degree.

    Glasses cannot maintain this kind of alignment. Even contact lenses are unable to maintain this kind of alignment. Think of your toric lens fittings. Try to achieve that to within .0005 degree. And forget about what the tear film does.

    I had talked with iZon's representatives before and never received an adequate answer to my probing questions about their "wavefront
    glasses". At this convention I spoke at length with their representatives and this time I received comprehensive responses.

    Well, at least more than I had received before.

    The iZon aberrometer purportedly measures LOA (sphere and cylinder) and HOA down to the seventh Zernike level. That really is far enough as much farther and the aberrations are of proportionately less clinical significance. Anyway, they take this "wavefront" and translate it into a spherocylindrical correction which is then ground onto high quality material lenses within 1/8th of a diopter tolerance.

    The representative finally acknowledged that they don't really correct HOA with their glasses, but that they use a wavefront analysis to create a spherocylindrical lens.

    Okay, now that makes sense. That is also why if you check a set of iZon glasses, you will have both spherical and cylinder correction at all points on the lens. Sorry iZon, but that is not correcting HOA. That is using an autorefractor (albeit an autorefractor on steroids that is probably better than anything else on the market) and very good materials with a higher than average tolerance.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that iZon glasses are inferior. Not at all. In fact we have received reports from patients with refractive surgery induced vision problems report that they were greatly impressed with the quality of their vision with iZon spectacles and I often suggest that a patient consider iZon and discuss them with there eye doctor. But for all that iZon glasses are, they are not correcting HOA.

    I'm sure that an iZon mucky-muck would say that they have never actually said that the correct the HOA wavefront, but you have all heard the sales pitch so you draw your own conclusions. Not surprisingly my questioning raised another question that the rep could not answer. The iZon representative said that their aberrometer does not use Hartmann-Shack or Tscherning technology for their aberrometer...but could not say what they do use. That is like saying that their car does not use an internal combustion engine or an electric motor, they don't know what is under the hood, but it goes faster than everyone else's car.

    I guess you can describe me as a cynic who desperately wants to believe.

    BTW: Jack Holladay, MD is currently chairperson of our governing Board of Trustees. His knowledge of visual neuroadaptation is vast. If you don't believe it happens, then look at your blind spot.

    Glenn Hagele
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    Patient Advocacy Surgeon Certification
    "Consider and Choose With Confidence" (TM)

    Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org

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    I am not a doctor.

    Copyright 2007
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  14. #89
    Master OptiBoarder Darryl Meister's Avatar
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    You're right about the "registration" issues associated with higher-order aberrations, and I actually described these very problems a few posts above this one. You can demonstrate these effects very elegantly by inserting a translation into a Zernike polynomial of a given order. Consider adding a horizontal translation (d) to the x terms of a Zernike polynomial for third-order coma:



    making it,



    which, after expansion yields,



    We now have additional lower-order Zernike terms present, including a second-order Zernike astigmatism term (6dxy).
    Darryl J. Meister, ABOM

  15. #90
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Great Post!

    And consistent with what I've heard about HOA & eyewear:

    1. Monochromatic HOAs are very influenced by tear film, and this, plus lenticular changes, are reasons why they are not stable over time.

    2. The *dynamic* eye means that mis-registration will possibly comprimise potential benefits of HOA, both for eyewear and CLs.

    3. Neural adaptation will impact *perceived* benefits of HOA correction, initially and over time.

    Great post. Thanks for contributing!

    Barry

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    Emmett O'Riley

    Several people in my office received complimentary lenses when the Izon reps came by. After almost a month of waiting for the glasses they arrived and nobody liked them even after a couple redos. The rimless pairs were drilled crooked and the full frames were not much better. Apparently quality control is not part of the deal. My impression of this technology is that it won't be long before you can get glasses made in a drugstore much like you can have your blood pressure checked.

  17. #92
    Rising Star eyepod's Avatar
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    You hit the nail on the head!

    Quote Originally Posted by LasikExpert View Post
    This is from a sci.med.vision thread about attempting to correct higher order aberrations with lenses. Some of what I say has been mentioned in this thread, but I thought I'd add my two cents:

    The HUGE problem with attempting to incorporate wavefront correcting Higher Order Aberration (HOA) correction into lenses is registration. The slightest misalignment of optics to correction causes a cascading effect and degradation of vision.

    I am relatively knowledgeable of optic wavefront analysis in humans and the use of wavefront-guided corneal ablation during Lasik and similar refractive surgery with the goal of correcting Lower Order Aberration (LOA), which is sphere and cylinder, and not inducing HOA, which is commonly represented in Zernike polynomials.

    I have just returned from a medical convention where iZon had a booth. I have always been suspicious of iZon's "wavefront glasses" because I understand the role of registration in HOA correction. Let me give a (believe it or not) simple example.

    The Zernike polynomial Spherical Aberration (SA) can be described as the periphery of the optic having a different spherical refractive error as the center. A person can be plano in the middle of the optic and a have a 2.00 myopic ring around the edges.

    Make an "O" with your right thumb and finger, put it in front of you, look through the center, and imagine that this represents the SA. Center is plano, your fingers represent a ring that is -2.00. Now make a circle with your left thumb and finger. This circle is a lens created to correct the SA. The outer ring has 2.00 diopters of correction and the center is plano. Align the two rings together. This is the theoretical correction of the HOA known as Spherical Aberration with the use of a lens. What is -2.00 in the optic of the right hand is corrected with a perfectly aligned 2.00 lens.

    Now move your left hand to the left and take the two O's out of alignment. What have you done?

    Where the lens (left hand) is over the plano portion of the optic (right hand), you have created 2.00 diopters of hyperopia, but only where these two planes intersect. Where the lens is over the myopic portion of the optic you have plano. Where there is no lens over the plano center of the optic you have plano. What you have created is the HOA known as Horizontal Coma, which is on the next level down the Zernike pyramid. All this by simply changing the alignment of the lens to the optics.

    And that is only with SA, which is probably the least exotic of the Zernike polynomials of HOA. Each time you misalign optic to correction at a Zernike, you induce HOA for each lower level of the Zernike pyramid, cascading down through an infinite number of mathematical possibilities.

    That is a long way to say that you cannot correct HOA if you cannot align the correction precisely to the aberrated optic. When you get down to the seventh level of Zernike, which is what iZon says their aberrometer measures, you are talking about alignment with a tolerance of less than a portion of microns and less than a percentage of a single degree.

    Glasses cannot maintain this kind of alignment. Even contact lenses are unable to maintain this kind of alignment. Think of your toric lens fittings. Try to achieve that to within .0005 degree. And forget about what the tear film does.

    I had talked with iZon's representatives before and never received an adequate answer to my probing questions about their "wavefront
    glasses". At this convention I spoke at length with their representatives and this time I received comprehensive responses.

    Well, at least more than I had received before.

    The iZon aberrometer purportedly measures LOA (sphere and cylinder) and HOA down to the seventh Zernike level. That really is far enough as much farther and the aberrations are of proportionately less clinical significance. Anyway, they take this "wavefront" and translate it into a spherocylindrical correction which is then ground onto high quality material lenses within 1/8th of a diopter tolerance.

    The representative finally acknowledged that they don't really correct HOA with their glasses, but that they use a wavefront analysis to create a spherocylindrical lens.

    Okay, now that makes sense. That is also why if you check a set of iZon glasses, you will have both spherical and cylinder correction at all points on the lens. Sorry iZon, but that is not correcting HOA. That is using an autorefractor (albeit an autorefractor on steroids that is probably better than anything else on the market) and very good materials with a higher than average tolerance.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that iZon glasses are inferior. Not at all. In fact we have received reports from patients with refractive surgery induced vision problems report that they were greatly impressed with the quality of their vision with iZon spectacles and I often suggest that a patient consider iZon and discuss them with there eye doctor. But for all that iZon glasses are, they are not correcting HOA.

    I'm sure that an iZon mucky-muck would say that they have never actually said that the correct the HOA wavefront, but you have all heard the sales pitch so you draw your own conclusions. Not surprisingly my questioning raised another question that the rep could not answer. The iZon representative said that their aberrometer does not use Hartmann-Shack or Tscherning technology for their aberrometer...but could not say what they do use. That is like saying that their car does not use an internal combustion engine or an electric motor, they don't know what is under the hood, but it goes faster than everyone else's car.

    I guess you can describe me as a cynic who desperately wants to believe.

    BTW: Jack Holladay, MD is currently chairperson of our governing Board of Trustees. His knowledge of visual neuroadaptation is vast. If you don't believe it happens, then look at your blind spot.

    Glenn Hagele
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    Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org

    Lasik Forum

    I am not a doctor.

    Copyright 2007
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    Here is what I got from my rep: It makes much more sense. The Z-View takes a wavefront reading as well as low order. That information is translated into an aberrated point spread function. Ther aberrated PSF is then fed through the mathmatical algorythm (sp?) in the instrument where the PSF is tightened as much as possible. That tightened PSF is then changed to a best fit sph/cyl. They utilize a best fit sph/cyl to counteract the affect that the patients HOA's have on their vision. I think the Z-View uses a holographic grating system instead of Hartman-Schack (again sp??)technology. You guys are beating this thing to death and it is really not that difficult. Open your mind to new possibilities!
    "Make the most of yourself.....for that is all there is of you" - Emerson

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    Redhot Jumper This make no sense!

    Quote Originally Posted by eyepod View Post
    Here is what I got from my rep: It makes much more sense. The Z-View takes a wavefront reading as well as low order. That information is translated into an aberrated point spread function. Ther aberrated PSF is then fed through the mathmatical algorythm (sp?) in the instrument where the PSF is tightened as much as possible. That tightened PSF is then changed to a best fit sph/cyl. They utilize a best fit sph/cyl to counteract the affect that the patients HOA's have on their vision. I think the Z-View uses a holographic grating system instead of Hartman-Schack (again sp??)technology. You guys are beating this thing to death and it is really not that difficult. Open your mind to new possibilities!
    I will open my mind to possibilities if you can answer a question!


    Why would anyone order a lens from Izon when they are not including the HOA correction in the lens and only providing a "BEST FIT SPH/SYL"???

    The whole premise of the technology was to be able to put the HOA correction in the lenses. I and many others have maintained this is not feesable and you have confirmed it in your statements. If this is true and accurate information from your rep at Ophthonix; they have a fancy toy that for some reason tells you it is necessary to get an Izon lens to get some magical benefits.

    Thanks for keeping an open mind and I look forward to your response as an expert on this technology.

    Craig

  19. #94
    Rising Star eyepod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    I will open my mind to possibilities if you can answer a question!


    Why would anyone order a lens from Izon when they are not including the HOA correction in the lens and only providing a "BEST FIT SPH/SYL"???

    The whole premise of the technology was to be able to put the HOA correction in the lenses. I and many others have maintained this is not feesable and you have confirmed it in your statements. If this is true and accurate information from your rep at Ophthonix; they have a fancy toy that for some reason tells you it is necessary to get an Izon lens to get some magical benefits.

    Thanks for keeping an open mind and I look forward to your response as an expert on this technology.

    Craig
    I refuse to wase my time responding to you any longer, Craig. I don't want to be rude so I'll just not say anything. You could take note of that as well.
    "Make the most of yourself.....for that is all there is of you" - Emerson

  20. #95
    Allen Weatherby
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    eyepod said:
    They utilize a best fit sph/cyl to counteract the affect that the patients HOA's have on their vision.
    So according to the IZON rep the High Order Abberations are compensated for by traditional Sphere and Cylinder corrections. Is this how you understand the lens is optimized?

    If so can you give me a few examples of the Dr. Rx before the IZON abberometer and new sphere, cylinder and axis after the IZON abberometer?

    I have had as open a mind as is possible and your explaination has a potential logic trail, but I would like to see some examples of the corrections, and how they differ from the Dr. prescribed Rx.

    The next follow up will be how do you despense a changed Rx without a logical explaination that the prescription is not correct?

    I am very familiar with compensations for wrap angle and tilt. This can be explained to most optician in a manner that is easily understood. I don't know how many will buy into a change in Rx for HOA.

    Craig: Did you receive different Sphere and Cylinder numbers with the IZON lenses than the Dr. Rx? What was the explaination IZON gave you for these changes.

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    HOA correction was the entire premise in the lens!

    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH View Post
    Craig: Did you receive different Sphere and Cylinder numbers with the IZON lenses than the Dr. Rx? What was the explaination IZON gave you for these changes.
    Not it is exactly the opposite, we ordered a lens with HOA correction based on the mapping of the eye by the Z-machine.

    THE RX GIVEN BY THE MACHINE OR THE ONE OVER-RIDING THE MACHINE BY THE DOCTOR WAS VERIFIED IN THE SAME MANNER AS ANY OTHER LENS MADE. THE DIFFERENCE WAS TO BE THE INCLUSION OF THE HOA CORRECTION THAT WAS OBTAINED BY THE Z-VIEW AND PROGRAM THE HOA IN THE "SECRET GOO".

    THAT WAS THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE PRODUCT- ADD THE HOA IN THE LENS; WITHOUT THIS THERE IS NO BASIS TO THE PRODUCT.

    :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

    HOT OFF THE OPHTHONIX WEBSITE!
    THERE IS NO PROGRAMING IN THE IZONK GOO AS THEY ORIGINALY CLAIMED!

    AS I HAVE SAID SINCE REALIZING THE TRUTH,
    IT IS ALL SMOKE AND NOT EVEN A MIRROR.
    THE LETTER TO THE THE WORLD WAS 100% TRUE.


    It looks like the truth is finally coming out.

    Craig

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    Read your own words! I mean you no harm, only info.

    Quote Originally Posted by eyepod View Post
    I refuse to wase my time responding to you any longer, Craig. I don't want to be rude so I'll just not say anything. You could take note of that as well.
    This is my post from 1-07:

    I have personally dispensed more lenses than anybody in the world and just sent back 3 machines!! There is some merit to the machine, but we had more progressive re-do's than all other brands combined. It may be the beginning of something good; but it needs to be in the hands of a company committed to the optical industry.
    We acheived the same results no matter what the high order reading- I doubt they have any way to control the high order to attain improved visual acuity over the entire lens.
    Some spots create awesome vision for a few individuals; most had problems reading out of the lenses and I could not get Ophthonix to solve this problem. They planned on a new progressive design to solve the problem; I used it and had the exact same results. The patients rejected the lenses up to 4 times times; we remade in the same frame and RX in a Kodak Unique and they loved them. We put all non adapts in the Kodak and they could read great. This agian proves " LET THE BUYER BEWARE" the company will go on their merry way one the purchase is made.


    This was your response!
    01-23-2007, 06:12 PM
    eyepod
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    They are using an abberometer to measure the high order abberations (trefoil, coma, spherical abberation) and then programming this into a lens via a laser. The ability to measure HOA's has been around for some time and now we can actually do something about it.

    We were both conned by them and it is time to do something about it. I am not the enemy; but a guy who lost more money than anybody else and happened to figure it out the hard way. I have done over 100 re-do's at my expense.
    Please contact me to learn more details I don't want public at this time.

    Respectfully,
    Craig

  23. #98
    Allen Weatherby
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    IZon

    Craig said:
    HOT OFF THE OPHTHONIX WEBSITE!
    THERE IS NO PROGRAMING IN THE IZONK GOO AS THEY ORIGINALY CLAIMED!


    AS I HAVE SAID SINCE REALIZING THE TRUTH,
    IT IS ALL SMOKE AND NOT EVEN A MIRROR.
    THE LETTER TO THE THE WORLD WAS 100% TRUE.
    Craig can you post the link to the Opthonix web site so we can see what you are talking about.

  24. #99
    Master OptiBoarder rinselberg's Avatar
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    How does the iZon Lens deal with the gaze angle shift?
    The iZon Lens design emphasizes the most prominent symmetrical higher order aberrations of the eye – i.e., spherical aberrations. This design mitigates the sensitivity to off-axis vision as the gaze angle shifts, resulting in a high level of patient preference. As with conventional lenses, there is a drop in vision performance as the eye shifts into the periphery of the lens.
    http://ophthonix.izonlens.com/izon-lenses/faqs.asp



    Sample iPrint from the Ophthonix Z-View&#174; Aberrometer ...

    http://ophthonix.izonlens.com/images/new_eyechart.pdf


    As someone with an engineering background (and a little optics) - but not an ECP - I have been following the Ophthonix story since it first appeared on the web.

    The Ophthonix website has been redone with new graphics and text since the last time I looked at it, but if what they are doing - optically - or what they say they are doing - has changed in any way ..? It looks like the same presentation as before, wrapped in a somewhat new format. So I don't see the point that Craig was trying to make (about the Ophthonix website) in those two most recent posts (above).
    Last edited by rinselberg; 12-10-2007 at 02:43 PM.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH View Post
    Craig said:

    Craig can you post the link to the Opthonix web site so we can see what you are talking about.

    www.ophthonix.com

    All it now talks about is a best RX from the machine and a fancy calculation it uses; THE ORIGINAL WEBSITE SHOWED HOW THE IZONIK GOO WAS PROGRAMED WITH THE HOA CORRECTION IN THE LENS.

    THIS WAS THE BASIS FOR USING THE SPECIAL IZON LENS, NOW THEY ARE ADMITTING THERE IS NO PROGRAMMING OF THE LENS FOR HOA.

    CRAIG

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