Dumping Viva?

**gjhazard** · 09-06-2006, 12:19 PM

Now that Viva is running all ECCA's store we have decided to drop them!

Any one else?

Last year we sent Luxottica packing! Not one person ever asked for them or missed them in any way.

They are the enemy of the ECP!

**Grubendol** · 09-06-2006, 12:20 PM

Haven't even seen a Viva frame in about 6 years myself. I don't think we could operate without Lux though...unfortunately. We need certain key lines here, like the Prada and Persol. Too requested to let go.

**jherman** · 09-06-2006, 12:24 PM

Lux got the boot soon after the PLC deal.

Originally Posted by gjhazard

Now that Viva is running all ECCA's store we have decided to drop them!

Any one else?

Last year we sent Luxottica packing! Not one person ever asked for them or missed them in any way.

They are the enemy of the ECP!

**markssunwear** · 09-06-2006, 12:30 PM

PLC? / ECP?

Originally Posted by gjhazard

Now that Viva is running all ECCA's store we have decided to drop them!

Any one else?

Last year we sent Luxottica packing! Not one person ever asked for them or missed them in any way.

They are the enemy of the ECP!

**Chris Ryser** · 09-06-2006, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by markssunwear

PLC? / ECP?

PlasticLensCouncil / ExteriorCentrePupil

:D

**GOS_Queen** · 09-06-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by markssunwear

PLC? / ECP?

PLC = Precision LensCrafters (the "older" name for LensCrafters)

ECP= Eye Care Provider

**For-Life** · 09-06-2006, 05:40 PM

Viva got the ECCA stores? I thought Lux got them.

**harry a saake** · 09-06-2006, 07:32 PM

was bought by highmark davis

**Bev Heishman** · 09-06-2006, 08:46 PM

Harry is correct. Viva is owned by Davis.

**Fezz** · 09-06-2006, 10:39 PM

Isn't Davis the Anti-Christ?

Seriously, I have never held Viva/Saavy frames in a very good light. The quality seemed to be marginal at best, reps(in Pennsylvania) were bogus, all name brands(Guess, Roy Trower?, Harley Davidson, etc) with no real direction. I passed on them years ago. I would definitely pass on them now considering the market and the insurance/Davis ownership. Why would you want to support this beast? For the price...no-name, generic, value frame will make you a bunch more money, last longer, and not fill the already deep enough pockets of the BEAST.

Fezz
:cheers:

**Optical Enigma** · 09-07-2006, 12:58 AM

Aren't Viva frames ghetto? Who cares who owns them. Who would want them? I find it fascinating that Opticians are so indignant that consumers go to the internet for a better deal. Can you blame them when they are going to pay "A Professional" 150$ for a Cracker Jack frame... Oh yeah I forgot, they also pay for the expirtise.:finger:

**Optical Enigma** · 09-07-2006, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by gjhazard

They are the enemy of the ECP!

Are you saying Lenscrafters consists of not one Eyecare Professional?

**gjhazard** · 09-07-2006, 02:21 PM

Viva are way ghetto. Had to carry some "low end" stuff to appease VSP.

**Grubendol** · 09-07-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by gjhazard

Viva are way ghetto. Had to carry some "low end" stuff to appease VSP.

So glad I'm in LA/Beverly Hills when it comes to these kinds of issues.

**Andrew Weiss** · 09-07-2006, 03:48 PM

We've done well with Candies. We also carry Tommy Hilfinger, which is only so-so. With this new change, even Candies is going to go.

**optirep** · 09-07-2006, 04:23 PM

This is a ? for those dumping Viva and Lux!

DO you still carry Safilo? Do you dump Oakley? Do you dump Charmant?

Safilo is opening sunglass stores all over the contry! Do you keep giving them money so that eventually they go RX?

Charmant is going into business with Luxottica with the Puma brand!

Oakley is buying RX stores all over!

I don't feel you should ever dump anything if it is making you money and your cusomers are happy!

**Grubendol** · 09-07-2006, 04:29 PM

There's no question it's a double edged sword. Certain products have demand because of design or advertising. Those products tend to come from the HUGE corporations who try and bully the doctor out of the business loop.

But for that doctor to not lose patients to the lenscrafter type shops, they have to carry those lines. But by carrying those lines you are helping that shop to push you out of business. Hard choices.

In the end, you just have to pick your poison.

**optirep** · 09-07-2006, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Grubendol

There's no question it's a double edged sword. Certain products have demand because of design or advertising. Those products tend to come from the HUGE corporations who try and bully the doctor out of the business loop.

But for that doctor to not lose patients to the lenscrafter type shops, they have to carry those lines. But by carrying those lines you are helping that shop to push you out of business. Hard choices.

In the end, you just have to pick your poison.

Or you just have to be better than those stores and service the patients needs!

**Grubendol** · 09-07-2006, 04:38 PM

Well that's how it works for us here. We don't advertise anywhere in anyway, yet we're still one of the biggest/busiest offices in LA.

But we have talked about dumping Oliver Peoples because of the Oakley buyout.

**andreah** · 09-07-2006, 04:59 PM

What choice did Highmark have? ECCA makes up a large portion of Viva's sales. If they didn't purchase them, then Luxottica would have. And there would go one of their largest distribution centers. A risk not worth taking.

ECCA carried the frame line before Highmark owned them and it didn't affect our business...so why should I be so concerned now. It's simple...if the frame line makes us money, then we carry them. If not, we don't.

Get used to it, this industry is changing.

**optirep** · 09-07-2006, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by andreah

What choice did Highmark have? ECCA makes up a large portion of Viva's sales. If they didn't purchase them, then Luxottica would have. And there would go one of their largest distribution centers. A risk not worth taking.

ECCA carried the frame line before Highmark owned them and it didn't affect our business...so why should I be so concerned now. It's simple...if the frame line makes us money, then we carry them. If not, we don't.

Get used to it, this industry is changing.

Not that is matters but I think Highmark bought ECCA more for Davis Vision than VIVA. Highmark is a managed care company and I think they do things to help that side first. I think they bought Viva to supply there manage care patients!

**optirep** · 09-07-2006, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by optirep

This is a ? for those dumping Viva and Lux!

DO you still carry Safilo? Do you dump Oakley? Do you dump Charmant?

Safilo is opening sunglass stores all over the contry! Do you keep giving them money so that eventually they go RX?

Charmant is going into business with Luxottica with the Puma brand!

Oakley is buying RX stores all over!

I don't feel you should ever dump anything if it is making you money and your cusomers are happy!

Any one else?

**Uni-Clip** · 09-07-2006, 08:26 PM

It's not just ECP's who are having this difficult decision to make. We, as a real manufacturer in China, are also being bullied by these giants. The more frames we supply to them, the stronger they get, and they come back to ask for more margin squeezing and longer credit. The more irony thing is they come to us and give us a bill of human rights demands to ensure working environment and minimum wage, which I would love to provide if I can afford and if they don't ask for a price reduction every 3 months, and if they pay me on time.

Do we dump them? No, we can't, we have thousands of workers and their families to feed. These giants have the volume(the market in your case) and we can't afford to go without them.

But we found alternatives to cope with this. We continue to work for these giants but we are also launching our house lines(without a designer name) but same quality(from the same production line) and similar designs(most giants don't even design nowadays but just pick from our new models and put on a logo) and wholesale directly to US ECP's from our Arizona office!

The end result - MUCH cheaper alternative products for ECP with equal quality and service level; and at the same time MUCH better margin for us, which means better income for our workers. Oh, I forgot to mention one most honorable behavior of US ECP's - they really pay me ON TIME!

I bet you can do the same! The next time you go to Vision Expo, look hard for your alternatives. There are a lot!

Yes, one day we are going to say good bye to these giants!

Lak Cheong
www.acuityeyewear.com

**Ory** · 09-07-2006, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Uni-Clip

The end result - MUCH cheaper alternative products for ECP with equal quality and service level;

And here comes the issue. How does one confirm equal quality? Short of stocking a line for a few months and letting your patients try it, there's no way.

While the big guys do have some issues in quality, I can be reasonably comfortable that most frames will be good and they will (usually) have no issues with warranty. I think the trick is to find a smaller design group that has fresh, interesting, quality products.

Having worked an assembly line in the past (had to pay tuition somehow....) I know that quality usually varies a lot more for the unbranded products. If the order for the name brand is done but there is extra whatever, you may get an unbranded that is the same product. But then you may get the typical, slightly lower quality product.

**cinders831** · 09-07-2006, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by optirep

Or you just have to be better than those stores and service the patients needs!

I must agree, here's the deal....do I like those companies, no. Do I prefer those companies, no. Am I ditching what sells well in my office for fear of the competition, NO. I am not scared and I welcome it. Our brands have never been what sold us, we are what sold us and sells us. I am not saying that our new brand owned stores might not pop up next door but I also dont care, strenght in service not in brands, they just help a little.
(off to duck and cower)
Cindy