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Thread: remote tracing

  1. #1
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    remote tracing

    I would be grateful of peoples experience with remote tracing
    many thanks

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I used remote tracing (Optronics 4T) for years with very satisfactory results. Only occasionally needed to touch off a lens that was a hair large.

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    Optiwizard making films Audiyoda's Avatar
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    Remote tracing with anything Gerber-Coburn (Triumph, Envoy, Envoy II, FT5, FTX/FTXe) = lenses too small, too large but never on size.

    Remote tracing with just about anything else, usually dead on if the tracer's been calibrated correctly. The Optronics 3T/4T are notorious for being about a 1/2 tenth too large, but that's an easy touch on the handstone and you're golden.

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    Rising Star loncoa's Avatar
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    Personally used many Gerber-Coburn units with no probs for many years. No I don't work for them. Also used many Essilor and Weco units as well, with success.

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    Long live Hoya! I would fight to the death if ANYBODY tried to take my tracer. It has made my life much easier. Single lens=no problem, own frame=no problem, VSP w/ patients own frame=no problem, remote tracing when done right=NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!


    Fezz
    :cheers:

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    I used an Essilor Phi remote tracer about 4 years ago. Lenses were on size about 90% of the time. I really liked Data Eyes, the program used with the tracer; very user friendly.

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    Rising Star ASenior's Avatar
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    When using remote tracing to the Labs, are you still charged as a "finished" account or "uncut" account? I would think that you would still be paying the premium prices of a "finished" account.

    I never understood why someone would want to use remote tracing other than not wanting to wrap up the frame, when you could do your own edging and save the $$'s.

    ;) Of course, I am an "edger guy" :D

  8. #8
    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASenior View Post
    premium prices of a "finished" account.

    I never understood why someone would want to use remote tracing other than not wanting to wrap up the frame, when you could do your own edging and save the $$'s.
    I thought it was just me.

    I have always wondered the thing.

  9. #9
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Actually there was a discount for using the tracer, not as much as the difference between uncut and finished, but to me it was worth it.

  10. #10
    Rising Star ASenior's Avatar
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    Lab discounts are so very subjective.

    10% to 30% off of what???

    Now that I am an equipment rep, I have analyzed to many lab statements to know.... uncut is the way to go.

  11. #11
    Keep on truckin... Cherry Optical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASenior View Post
    Lab discounts are so very subjective.

    10% to 30% off of what???

    Now that I am an equipment rep, I have analyzed to many lab statements to know.... uncut is the way to go.
    Well I would hope you would say that. I belive the part that is easy to leave out is the expense of owning and operating a machine. I look at it a lot like owning a home vs. renting an apartment. When you own the home, you may be getting a better 'deal' but you also are mowing the lawn, shoveling the snow, paying higher taxes, higher utlities, etc... Whereas renting may not seem like such a great 'deal'; you don't have to deal with any of the homeowner crap, and the best part, when something goes wrong, you just call the LABlord, i mean landlord.

    Two things that come out of in-house labs that you do not have to deal with when you work with a high quality finish lab lab are: lower quality 'good enough' work and drawers full of random (paid for) lenses.

    The pencil sell is easy for equipment guys.......

    Adam

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    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Our edger went down (and out) Friday. Monday, I took 1/2 a day's work to the local lab to have them edge our lenses. The "edge only" invoices for 1/2 a day's work (about 35 jobs) came to over $500! I supplied the lenses! I hadn't bothered to check pricing, but it's been so long since I paid someone to edge for us (12 years), I had no idea some labs charged that much. No wonder many opticals don't make a profit.

    A brand new, patternless edger, with drill capacity will pay for itself in less than 2 months. After it's paid for, I will once again be getting paid.

    An absolute no brainer.

  13. #13
    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherry Optical View Post
    Two things that come out of in-house labs that you do not have to deal with when you work with a high quality finish lab lab are: lower quality 'good enough' work and drawers full of random (paid for) lenses.

    Adam
    Adam,

    I think you for got the on your quote, unless of course, you were serious.

    For a different perspective, try visiting a "high quality" in-house lab.

    Your inference that high quality finish labs (you know, the ones that hire all $6.35 an hour lab techs) are only the high priced commercial outfits is quite humorous.
    :D

  14. #14
    Keep on truckin... Cherry Optical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    For a different perspective, try visiting a "high quality" in-house lab.

    Your inference that high quality finish labs (you know, the ones that hire all $6.35 an hour lab techs) are only the high priced commercial outfits is quite humorous.
    :D
    As is your inference that high quality laboratory Opticians make $6.35 an hour.

    Let’s assume you are a high quality Optician who makes $15.00 an hour. If you spend your day edging lenses your employer pays well over $120 a day for your services. That’s over $2,400 a month and well over $30,000 a year to have you operate that $30,000 machine. Now, add cost of product, cost of materials, and cost of establishing and maintaining an inventory of lenses and you may start to see the light.

    Every time this discuss comes out there are people who have strong opinions on both sides of the issue. What I always point out is that no one ever factors in the cost of running an edger. They simply look at the price of an edger and the price of uncut lenses. As if just setting a pile of stock lenses next to an edger will lead to finished lenses.

    My guess is that you both own your practice and don't mind spending extra time cutting and edging lenses instead of having time off to spend with family and friends or you work for someone and your job is to sell and/or cut lenses. I notice quit often that the folks that are in 'charge' of edging lenses at private practices tend to create their own little ‘department’ within a clinic which usually creates riffs amongst other employees.

    Are you right? Sure. Am I right? Why of course... j/k But you have to admit that a great deal more money can be found spending more time with patients, learning about new products, and getting involved in your community than can be generated in a back room cutting lenses. If you disagree with this statement than one thing is for certain, you haven’t been getting involved and haven’t bothered trying to gather new business lately.

    1) What is the opportunity cost of owning and operating your own edger?

    Opportunity cost = Opportunity lost.

    Regards,


    Adam

  15. #15
    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherry Optical View Post
    I notice quit often that the folks that are in 'charge' of edging lenses at private practices tend to create their own little ‘department’ within a clinic which usually creates riffs amongst other employees.

    No "one" person is in charge of the lab work. With the exception of the ODs and the receptionist, anyone in the office is capable of cutting jobs, and depending on the work flow, we all do.

    I can honestly say that I never had any extra money in my business account until we started doing our own lab work. At the time, I had one office, and the extra income has allowed me to expand, as well as hire more employees. (I don't see employees making 30-50k as a negative.)

    Time with the family? I eat most of my meals at home, and work about 6 hours a day. The in-house lab is a great marketing tool, which has increased our volum even more. We can pay for a new edger, on what the shipping costs alone were costing before.

    Wholesale labs hate to see shops go in-house, because they realize they usually lose the finish account for good.

    I know you have good reason to argue against an in house profit center, but for the independent, it is the only way to survive.

  16. #16
    Objection! OptiBoard Gold Supporter shanbaum's Avatar
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    Seminar

    GC will be presenting a free (well, free in conjunction with at least one paid CE course) continuing education seminar at Vision Expo West entitled "In-office Processing: Cash Cow or Money Pit", on Thursday, September 14, from 2:00pm to 3:00pm, in the Medical & Scientific Pavillion Theatre (booth MS5110). COPE #17246-PM.

    I, for one, can hardly wait to learn the answer.

    Go to www.visionexpowest.com to register, and be sure to attend VEW, if only to pi** off Chris Ryser.
    Last edited by shanbaum; 09-08-2006 at 02:25 PM. Reason: corrected COPE number, date, location, and spelling of "GC".

  17. #17
    Keep on truckin... Cherry Optical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    (I don't see employees making 30-50k as a negative.)

    Time with the family? I eat most of my meals at home, and work about 6 hours a day. The in-house lab is a great marketing tool, which has increased our volum even more. We can pay for a new edger, on what the shipping costs alone were costing before.

    Wholesale labs hate to see shops go in-house, because they realize they usually lose the finish account for good.

    I know you have good reason to argue against an in house profit center, but for the independent, it is the only way to survive.
    I'll just chalk this up to difference of opinion.

    Apparently there are a great deal of ******* labs out there that give us all a bad name. When I review our finished v uncut pricing structure I find it hard to believe someone can make more money edging... Perhaps our finished prices need a healthy increase?

    Also, I hope you are not misunderstanding me. I can undestand why you would want to edge sv poly, plastic, and other low risk jobs. However, I don't believe these are the products that are going to allow you to thrive in your market. Why on earth an in-office lab would want to edge a Zeiss Individual, Rodenstock ILT, or Physio 360 is beyond me....? Hell, if we could, I would have the manufacturer edge them for us! Less risk is a good thing.

    So maybe I am conciding a bit here....

    Adam

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    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherry Optical View Post
    ?

    Also, I hope you are not misunderstanding me. I can undestand why you would want to edge sv poly, plastic, and other low risk jobs. However, I don't believe these are the products that are going to allow you to thrive in your market. Why on earth an in-office lab would want to edge a Zeiss Individual, Rodenstock ILT, or Physio 360 is beyond me....? Hell, if we could, I would have the manufacturer edge them for us! Less risk is a good thing.

    So maybe I am conciding a bit here....

    Adam
    I see where you're coming from as well, but the majority of our jobs are low risk jobs. If I have a - 19.00 to edge, we might have the wholesale lab edge it, as the price will already be high enough to absorb the difference.

    My point is that I make my money on the everyday jobs that you can cut in your sleep. If I mess up a Physio, my lab will replace it N/C. I know that this is not common practice, but that's what they do for us. We don't do it often, may a few times a year.

  19. #19
    Rising Star ASenior's Avatar
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    Again, uncut to finish pricing is subjective. And to say you should only edge SV stock lenses because they are easier vs. a FT or PAL is very off target.

    I don't even thick you are allowed to edge your own "Individual, Multigressive or 360 (freeform)". It's just another entity telling the retailer they can not do the lab work. i.e. VSP

    The number don't lie when you are thinking of doing your own lab work, finishing, casting or surfacing, and not that I incurage the latter of the three. BUT, its not for everyone. Some staff member (or Doc's) don't or simple won't have it due to time, money, or hassle. I myself think it is short sighted or accepting status quo.

    I am a proponant of quality Wholesale Labs, like Cherry Optical. I certainly recommended them along with Toledo Optical and others when I was in the area. But ultimately, when you are looking at Uncut, the window of quality issues narrow enough to focus on price. As we all know, if we don't look hard at what we are spending, then we can't expect to earn.

    Heres one for ya...

    As more labs turn to more robtics and person power is needed less and less, will that start to turn the lens prices downward. And in turn will that make equipment price turn downward also? All in staying competitive that is. And if the robotic equipment was not cost effective, then they wouldn't purchase them.

    Technology is out to get us I tell ya....LOL:cheers:

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    Technology is out to get us I tell ya....LOL

    Your right,In costco they are doing 3,000+jobs daily ALL robotic edgers.
    But,Still the way people are today they want there glasses yesterday
    when they ordered them today.For me i'm proud and love to be in the lab cutting jobs, and what ever money I can save by ordering uncuts and edgeing myself it's great....




    Quote Originally Posted by ASenior View Post
    Again, uncut to finish pricing is subjective. And to say you should only edge SV stock lenses because they are easier vs. a FT or PAL is very off target.

    I don't even thick you are allowed to edge your own "Individual, Multigressive or 360 (freeform)". It's just another entity telling the retailer they can not do the lab work. i.e. VSP

    The number don't lie when you are thinking of doing your own lab work, finishing, casting or surfacing, and not that I incurage the latter of the three. BUT, its not for everyone. Some staff member (or Doc's) don't or simple won't have it due to time, money, or hassle. I myself think it is short sighted or accepting status quo.

    I am a proponant of quality Wholesale Labs, like Cherry Optical. I certainly recommended them along with Toledo Optical and others when I was in the area. But ultimately, when you are looking at Uncut, the window of quality issues narrow enough to focus on price. As we all know, if we don't look hard at what we are spending, then we can't expect to earn.

    Heres one for ya...

    As more labs turn to more robtics and person power is needed less and less, will that start to turn the lens prices downward. And in turn will that make equipment price turn downward also? All in staying competitive that is. And if the robotic equipment was not cost effective, then they wouldn't purchase them.

    Technology is out to get us I tell ya....LOL:cheers:

  21. #21
    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASenior View Post
    As more labs turn to more robtics and person power is needed less and less, will that start to turn the lens prices downward. And in turn will that make equipment price turn downward also?
    Now that's a good one!!:D

  22. #22
    Rising Star ASenior's Avatar
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    Thought you would like that one.

  23. #23
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    What are the best edgers and tracers for remote tracing ?

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    Rising Star IIxIPariahIxII's Avatar
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    You know.....this is one of those where you start reading, and reading, and it's not until you go to reply that you realize the thread is 15 years old........with that said. Canche, your best answers are going to be in your posted topic.

  25. #25
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by IIxIPariahIxII View Post
    You know.....this is one of those where you start reading, and reading, and it's not until you go to reply that you realize the thread is 15 years old........with that said. Canche, your best answers are going to be in your posted topic.
    Yes, some of the tracers mentioned in 2006 are still used, but there are some new ones, as well.

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