Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 56

Thread: Backside AR Coating on Sun Lenses

  1. #1
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69

    Backside AR Coating on Sun Lenses

    I'm looking to purchase a pair of quality polarized prescription lenses. I get differing opinions on whether to AR coat the backside only, or to coat both sides, or just leave them uncoated. What does everyone think? And more importantly, what kind of facts backup the opinions?

  2. #2
    Bad address email on file Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    26
    Coat both sides. Coating the backside does little, as the light still reflects off the front surface back to your eye. The frontside will be harder to clean in comparison to the backside, especially if it has super hydrophobic.

  3. #3
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace
    Coat both sides. Coating the backside does little, as the light still reflects off the front surface back to your eye. The frontside will be harder to clean in comparison to the backside, especially if it has super hydrophobic.

    Why do labs seem to want to charge more for backside only? Can they put only hydro on the front side?

  4. #4
    Bad address email on file Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by dochsml
    Why do labs seem to want to charge more for backside only? Can they put only hydro on the front side?
    Because it has to be separated, and masked. And the coating lab runs the risk of ruining the lenses simply by coating both sides accidentally if it is missed or improperly marked on the coating order envelope.

  5. #5
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace
    Because it has to be separated, and masked. And the coating lab runs the risk of ruining the lenses simply by coating both sides accidentally if it is missed or improperly marked on the coating order envelope.
    Then why is backside only so popular if it costs more and performs less?

  6. #6
    Bad address email on file Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by dochsml
    Then why is backside only so popular if it costs more and performs less?
    Because.... some people are uneducated.It has become quite the myth

  7. #7
    Bad address email on file Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace
    Because it has to be separated, and masked. And the coating lab runs the risk of ruining the lenses simply by coating both sides accidentally if it is missed or improperly marked on the coating order envelope.
    In response to frontside only hydrophobic, yes but not many labs no how to do it correctly

  8. #8
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    makes sense. what's it take to do it correctly? a little sio2, a little hydro and presto!


    :cheers:

  9. #9
    Bad address email on file Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by dochsml
    makes sense. what's it take to do it correctly? a little sio2, a little hydro and presto!


    :cheers:
    and a little chromium and plasma treatment

  10. #10
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace
    and a little chromium and plasma treatment
    thanks ace.

    anybody else care to comment?

  11. #11
    Rising Star
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Southern CA
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    68
    Wouldn't coating both surfaces increase light transmission of the lens?

  12. #12
    Rising Star
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    london
    Occupation
    Optical Retail
    Posts
    341
    Kodak stock pre-tinted lens with AR on back surface (in the UK)
    great lenses

  13. #13
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by AEOC
    Wouldn't coating both surfaces increase light transmission of the lens?
    Yes it would. But I guess it wouldn't be significant if the lens was tinted already. I think it has become clear that the pluses far outweigh the minuses on this one.

  14. #14
    One of the worst people here
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Occupation
    Other Eyecare-Related Field
    Posts
    8,331
    the labs I deal with sell the backside AR for much less expensive than both side AR.

    When it comes down to it, the backside AR does give a major benefit to the lenses. I have had sunglasses without a backside AR and the visual quality is diminished. Coating both sides may be nice, but putting the coating on the front of a tinted sun lens offers no additional visual advantage, as a sun lens already cuts down on light transmission.

  15. #15
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life
    the labs I deal with sell the backside AR for much less expensive than both side AR.

    When it comes down to it, the backside AR does give a major benefit to the lenses. I have had sunglasses without a backside AR and the visual quality is diminished. Coating both sides may be nice, but putting the coating on the front of a tinted sun lens offers no additional visual advantage, as a sun lens already cuts down on light transmission.
    I agree. But I would still like to see hydrophobic applied to the front without AR. Most labs don't offer that. Or at least offer it the way Ace was describing in the vacuum chamber. Kind of annoying having a slick backside and rough front! Of course then we are back to having to separate out work and the lab charging a premium.

  16. #16
    One of the worst people here
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Occupation
    Other Eyecare-Related Field
    Posts
    8,331
    Quote Originally Posted by dochsml
    I agree. But I would still like to see hydrophobic applied to the front without AR. Most labs don't offer that. Or at least offer it the way Ace was describing in the vacuum chamber. Kind of annoying having a slick backside and rough front! Of course then we are back to having to separate out work and the lab charging a premium.
    true, but consumers never complained about how hard it was to clean a non-coated lens, only a coated lens.

  17. #17
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life
    true, but consumers never complained about how hard it was to clean a non-coated lens, only a coated lens.
    It is getting better though. Anti static and oleophobic coatings seem to help. AR will always be harder to clean because of what clean is on AR lenses. Increase the transmission and see more dirt!

  18. #18
    Allen Weatherby
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    1,286

    AR and polarized sunglasses lenses

    ACE:
    Coat both sides. Coating the backside does little, as the light still reflects off the front surface back to your eye. The frontside will be harder to clean in comparison to the backside, especially if it has super hydrophobic.
    I have to disagree with AR on the front of a sunlens. AR will increase light transmission. The purpose of AR on the backside of a Polarized lens is to prevent reflections that would occur on the rear lens surface. With a silicon based hard coating todays hydrophobics will bond to the front surface.

    AR on the front will only increase light transmission and that is not what you want with a sunlens.

  19. #19
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH
    ACE:

    I have to disagree with AR on the front of a sunlens. AR will increase light transmission. The purpose of AR on the backside of a Polarized lens is to prevent reflections that would occur on the rear lens surface. With a silicon based hard coating todays hydrophobics will bond to the front surface.

    AR on the front will only increase light transmission and that is not what you want with a sunlens.
    I was under the impression that most hydrophobics and oleophobics are engineered to stick best to the last layer of AR (almost always SiO2)? I'm sure it would work on the hard coat, but maybe not as well. Maybe flash mirror is the way to go?

  20. #20
    Allen Weatherby
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    1,286

    AR and hydrophobic

    dochsml:
    I was under the impression that most hydrophobics and oleophobics are engineered to stick best to the last layer of AR (almost always SiO2)? I'm sure it would work on the hard coat, but maybe not as well. Maybe flash mirror is the way to go?
    You seem to be asking very specific questions yet using general assumptions of materials. Very few who apply hydrophobics formulate their own coating. Generally you are correct that the bonding is to the Silicon in the SiO2. A polysiloxane hard coating is silicon based and depending on the hydrophobic will likely bond in a similar manner. Also a mirror will allow good bonding.

    There are many factors involved in applying proper mirrors, ARs and hydropobics.

    We have tested and developed our own process to work with our ICE-TECH Advanced Polarized Lenses. We have excellent results on non-mirror and mirror lenses with our Free-ICE Super Hydrophobic

  21. #21
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH
    dochsml:

    You seem to be asking very specific questions yet using general assumptions of materials. Very few who apply hydrophobics formulate their own coating. Generally you are correct that the bonding is to the Silicon in the SiO2. A polysiloxane hard coating is silicon based and depending on the hydrophobic will likely bond in a similar manner. Also a mirror will allow good bonding.

    There are many factors involved in applying proper mirrors, ARs and hydropobics.

    We have tested and developed our own process to work with our ICE-TECH Advanced Polarized Lenses. We have excellent results on non-mirror and mirror lenses with our Free-ICE Super Hydrophobic
    How is this hydrophobic applied? In or out of chamber?

  22. #22
    Allen Weatherby
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    1,286

    hydrophobic

    Our ICE-TECH Free-ICE is applied in a chamber. Unfortunately any additional information about our unique process is proprietary.

    We invested a great deal in development and testing and provide limited information on the details of our processes.

  23. #23
    OptiEngineer dochsml's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Occupation
    Other Optical Manufacturer or Vendor
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH
    Our ICE-TECH Free-ICE is applied in a chamber. Unfortunately any additional information about our unique process is proprietary.

    We invested a great deal in development and testing and provide limited information on the details of our processes.
    Most everyone uses the same super hydrophobic / oleophobic chemical but the difference is in application. I would certainly never ask you to show your cards on your specific method. Was more curious if it was done under vacuum or not? I know they have some atmospheric chambers for applying as well along with dips and wipes and who knows what else. A PVD chamber could do it all whereas a sputtered mirror would require some other means of applying the hydro. I'm just enjoying the conversation now. My next pair is definitely going to be polarized. I think I might be able to talk someone into making sure there is hydro on both sides.

    :cheers:

  24. #24
    OptiBoard Professional Ory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Ontario
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    977
    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH
    ACE:

    I have to disagree with AR on the front of a sunlens. AR will increase light transmission. The purpose of AR on the backside of a Polarized lens is to prevent reflections that would occur on the rear lens surface. With a silicon based hard coating todays hydrophobics will bond to the front surface.

    AR on the front will only increase light transmission and that is not what you want with a sunlens.
    Yes! Going without the frontside AR is also the cheap man's mirror coat. Look at the vast majority of sun lenses without an AR coat in full sunlight. The reflections are great!

  25. #25
    OptiBoard Professional sharon m./ aboc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    110

    backside a/r

    Quote Originally Posted by AWTECH
    ACE:

    I have to disagree with AR on the front of a sunlens. AR will increase light transmission. The purpose of AR on the backside of a Polarized lens is to prevent reflections that would occur on the rear lens surface. With a silicon based hard coating todays hydrophobics will bond to the front surface.

    AR on the front will only increase light transmission and that is not what you want with a sunlens.
    Well put....
    This is EXACTLY what my understanding of the purpose of "backside only" a/r on sunglasses....You don't want more light transmission on sunglasses.
    sharon

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Are high-index aspheric 1.67 lenses worth the extra money?
    By dave191 in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 08-16-2005, 10:54 PM
  2. Faulty eyeglass lenses from lab?
    By hlritter in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-20-2005, 04:08 PM
  3. Difficult to receive "perfect" lenses with AR coating?
    By audelair in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 05-05-2004, 09:06 PM
  4. Hoya Introduces Super HiVision AR Coating
    By Newsroom in forum Optical Industry News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-30-2002, 01:30 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •