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Thread: National Boards / National Licensure

  1. #26
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Pete
    The uniform certification we seek and the one you think we should have before we "go public" is called an Associates Degree. That's he "MD" after the name we should be shooting for. That's a no brainer. I don't see why there should be a debate. If there are those with no AA and have demonstrated equivelency, let them be tested. That's called challenging the course. If they pass, they get the degree. What we need to work for is that option. Anyone else needs college training or the equivelent. As for going public? By the time we get the post secondary schools to get that option from their certifying body, whether it be a state community college system, association of post secondary schools, or whatever, that should be the task of some degreed optician/alumni, etc. task force. While they are working on that, the marketing "team" can be doing its thing to prepare for going public. There is lag time involved. But, the marketing function will have to begin a good year in advance anyway. These things don't happen overnight, but are a coordinated multifunctional initiative that starts with planning and organizing long before the plan launches. This is NOT an "Ifee" situation. But, we have demonstrated for decades resistence to change, organization, planning, and stepping outside the box to recruit talent to do our bidding. It's called delegation in the right places, and I am seeing too many of us doing too much thinking about the implementation process (with the lack of skills to do it) and not enough designing a plan. The legislative function is in place. The educational functions are in place. They need to be reengineered to have more specific impact, becase they are trying to accomplish too much with the available talents. Going public is a marketing function of which few of us knows how to do. But, there is an individual who has proved marketing ability and his name is Joe Bruneni. What he did for polycarbs he can do for opticianry, cause he is one. But, we need to stop thinking for the experts and be the designers of the mission, the objectives, and the goals before we implement anything.

  2. #27
    OptiBoard Professional Don Lee's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Homer


    ...Do you also see the frame representatives included since many are former opticians and/or train optical dispensers in the proper uses of their products...

    Would lens representatives be included also?
    I can't remember the last time I met a frame or lens rep that was a former optician.

    Don
    Last edited by Don Lee; 05-07-2001 at 05:00 PM.

  3. #28
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    I see reps as no different than any other member of the industry. Under the specialties concept anyone can establish expertise. So, rather than by job title, their education and or acknowldged experience equivelent positions them. I, personally, would have a lot more respect for a frame rep who is recognized by peers than one off the street by a frame distributor.

  4. #29
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Step 1

    Alan,

    Yes,we have all done quiet a bit of thinking and planning. You mention moving on to designing. What do you and the others who have posted to threads involving creating a change propose as a Step 1 in the plan?

  5. #30
    OptiBoard Professional Don Lee's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Homer
    Is a national recognition or licensure possible?

    The two strongest opposing forces to state licensure, it has been stated, are optometry and national retail chains. Does anyone ask why? Oh, you think you know the answer; "they would have to pay us too much." I think that may not be so
    In Oklahoma the optoms have fought everything to do with licensing for about 40 years. Word has it that they don't want Opticians to have credibility. One on one each optom will say they're for licensing but as a group they fight it. Their lobby is so powerful that they beat the Ophthalmologist and now they can do refractive surgical procedures.

    The last time licensing came up was about 3 years ago and the chains didn't want it. Neither did the optoms, unless you were talking to them one on one.

    If you're a beautician or a dog you have to be licensed in Oklahoma, but not if all you do is fit spectacles and contact lenses.

    Don

  6. #31
    since 1964 Homer's Avatar
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    Don, good to see your post. Why exactly do you think that optometry is against opticianry having any recognition? They don't want to pay for opticianry? The just want to have all the business for themselves? or they are afraid of opticians who know what they are doing?

    BTW, I have sepnt a little time working in Oklahoma in the mid-70's.

    Your point is the reason why I think we need to and can finght this thing on a national level. I am actually stupid enough to believe that we can get optometry and the chains to support us in this.

    Let's all join the fingernail painters and the dogs and get a license!


    :cheers:

  7. #32
    OptiBoard Professional Don Lee's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Homer
    Don, good to see your post. Why exactly do you think that optometry is against opticianry having any recognition? They don't want to pay for opticianry? The just want to have all the business for themselves? or they are afraid of opticians who know what they are doing?

    Your point is the reason why I think we need to and can finght this thing on a national level. I am actually stupid enough to believe that we can get optometry and the chains to support us in this.
    I don't know why optoms would be against Opticians being a credible group. Perhaps for reasons you have previously mentioned. They have argued that Opticianry doesn't require a minimum amount of formal education. So what! I don't think a formal education, college, is necessary and from some of the glasses I've seen fit by 1st year optoms I'd say it's a hinderance. I believe a trade school or an apprentice program would benefit Opticians and that every Dispensing Optician should be, at the very least, ABO Certified.

    Since attempts at the state level have failed we should try at the national, providing it's not ran by the government.

    I don't think we need support from the optoms or chains. I'd really hate it if the optoms became our controlling entity. Chains? Only if they kept their mouths shut and forked over lots of money. I've not had any good experiences with the chains. The NAO, ABO, and OAA would be very useful to us and Optical coorporations could help provide funding for lobbyists.

    Don

  8. #33
    OptiBoard Professional Don Lee's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Homer
    Don, good to see your post. Why exactly do you think that optometry is against opticianry having any recognition? They don't want to pay for opticianry? The just want to have all the business for themselves? or they are afraid of opticians who know what they are doing?

    Your point is the reason why I think we need to and can finght this thing on a national level. I am actually stupid enough to believe that we can get optometry and the chains to support us in this.
    I don't know why optoms would be against Opticians being a credible group. Perhaps for reasons you have previously mentioned. They have argued that Opticianry doesn't require a minimum amount of formal education. So what! I don't think a formal education, college, is necessary and from some of the glasses I've seen fit by 1st year optoms I'd say it's a hinderance. I believe a trade school or an apprentice program would benefit Opticians and that every Dispensing Optician should be, at the very least, ABO Certified.

    Since attempts at the state level have failed we should try at the national, providing it's not ran by the government.

    I don't think we need support from the optoms or chains. I'd really hate it if the optoms became our controlling entity. Chains? Only if they kept their mouths shut and forked over lots of money. I've not had any good experiences with the chains. The NAO, ABO, and OAA would be very useful to us and Optical coorporations could help provide funding for lobbyists.

    Don

  9. #34
    since 1964 Homer's Avatar
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    Don:

    1) Are you a member of the organizations you listed?

    2) Do you have a state society / association? If not, why not?

    3) We're going to have a great multi-state, regional convention in Colorado next Spring. Want to join us?

    4) It has been my experience that the "optical Corporations" are going to take a very low key position in this issue - they will simply play both sides against the middle and sell their products to whoever gets there first. They are only pro-opticianry when they think there is a chance you will buy their products.

    5) If NAO, OAA, NAOO and those pushing a formal education product can not get on the same page, how will we ever attempt to draw unity out of this present form of disunity.

    6) Quite frankly, I think the licensed states would be the greatest force against any kind of national recognition or licensure. None of them will be willing to "lower their standards" to unite all of opticianry.

  10. #35
    OptiBoard Professional Don Lee's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Homer
    1) Are you a member of the organizations you listed?
    I'm a member of the ABO and am about to join the NAO.

    2) Do you have a state society / association? If not, why not?
    We don't have a state organization. We can't get the Opticians interested in supporting a local chapter. There have been 5 or 6 state organizations over the past 40 years and all of them have failed. What really doesn't make sense is that Tulsa will have absolutely nothing to do with any Optical organization.

    The Southwestern Ophthalmic Dispensers Association is still trying to keep interest. It's a multi-state organization that provides education. It moved from Dallas 3 years ago after 25 years. At the moment I'm the president and we're trying to get an educational meeting scheduled for later this year.
    3) We're going to have a great multi-state, regional convention in Colorado next Spring. Want to join us?
    Sounds good. I may attend the meeting.
    4) It has been my experience that the "optical Corporations" are going to take a very low key position in this issue - they will simply play both sides against the middle and sell their products to whoever gets there first. They are only pro-opticianry when they think there is a chance you will buy their products.
    I figured the companies might take that position and I wouldn't blame them. They need to make $$$, which is perfectly understandable to me. We shouldn't count them out, though.
    5) If NAO, OAA, NAOO and those pushing a formal education product can not get on the same page, how will we ever attempt to draw unity out of this present form of disunity.
    I have no idea. That will take people with political saavy and adminstrative skills.

    6) Quite frankly, I think the licensed states would be the greatest force against any kind of national recognition or licensure. None of them will be willing to "lower their standards" to unite all of opticianry.
    I don't know what the answer is, but I'm confident that licensing help everybody involved with Opticianry. I'm wanting to get involved at the national level. I don't know how I can help. My best skill is gathering information. I'm not an administrator or politician, as much as I want to be.

    Don
    Last edited by Don Lee; 05-10-2001 at 10:20 AM.

  11. #36
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Post Clarification

    Just to clarify a couple of points:

    1. One can not be a "member" of the ABO. The ABO is a certifying body. The money you pay them is to renew your ABO certification, not dues.

    2. The NAOO is a lobbying organization for the large optical retailers, including LensCrafters, Cole and others. They have no vested interest in formal education and actively oppose licensure of Opticians whenever and wherever possible. While I learned long ago never to say "never," the idea that they will ever be on the same page as OAA or NAO is merely a pipe dream.

  12. #37
    OptiBoard Professional Don Lee's Avatar
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    Re: Clarification

    Originally posted by Judy Canty ...One can not be a "member" of the ABO. The ABO is a certifying body. The money you pay them is to renew your ABO certification, not dues...[/B]
    Pardon me, I must have suffered a transient ischemic attack or a mature moment. I was a member of the OAA but am going to join the NAO. I've been thinking about TOPS (Texas) and giving more thought to Colorado.

    BTW: SWODA, which I am/was a member, is not going to have a meeting this year. We can't find any interest at this time.

    Don
    Last edited by Don Lee; 05-10-2001 at 02:14 PM.

  13. #38
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Response to Jo's dessigning question

    Jo
    Apologies for late response. I've been crashed for a while.
    STEP 1 . . . Cyber Steering Committee . . . dedicated chat room.

    If there is someone who wants to see and participate in reengineering opticianries present organizational structure, that's where the meetings need to begin.

    My position is that anyone presently involved in academic or legislative activities needn't think I am for their abolishment. I am, however, in favor of a third entity, marketing, which should move in position along side the other two and all should be functions of a parent organization. I also stand for the creation of specialty certification and my reasons to be presented (repeated) at the steering committee cyber meeting.

    As an alternate, I am in favor of multipoint videoconferencing where we can all see and here each other. I would like to see Steve facilitate that. If there are costs involved, we should get that from Steve and apply for a grant from a supporting supply-side company. I also feel Steve should be paid for this work.

    On page one of this thread is a 4 point proposal which I am not firm on, but would like to see someone modify or build on it. I have seen no responses or comments on it.

    The idea of a dedicated chat room, in my mind, means no other debate than what will lead to a constructive action plan. It will need a tough and serious moderator. Someone who will say: OK, Alan, time to shut up and let someone else speak . . . you're the weakest link . .. gooby!!

  14. #39
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Four Points
    1, agreement on specialties for certification
    2, development of a training board to develope the criteria for a curriculum leading to a certificate of specialty (going backwards from the job to the training to create the job).
    3, ways and means (working with each action team to determine its money needs, set up sources of funding (dues, donations, federal grants, affinity sources, etc interested in funding internet organizations)
    4,marketing team who will interview and communicate with professionals in internet marketing and professionals in media marketing in order to get a budget and plan put together.
    On Point 1:
    -Mechanical
    -Dispensing

    On Point 2:
    Perhaps we should look to organizations already in place, the ABO/NCLE and the Commision on Opticianry Accredation for guidance on this one. Revamp and strengthen both the certifying boards and our commitment to education.
    On Point 3:
    This is going to be the tough one. We would need a management company. Money and time are two of the toughest criteria to meet.
    On Point 4:
    We would need a marketing company. Look how hard it has been for all of us to try and define ourselves and what we do. If we don't know who we are, what exactly are we going to be telling the public?

  15. #40
    Master OptiBoarder Alan W's Avatar
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    Jo
    Bless your heart and thanks for the feedback.
    I agree on all points. There's work to be done. We do have resources around us. But, wihout structure, those resources won't spend a dime on us. :finger:

    We CAN do this. But, I'm not going to be the only one at it. I'm going to sit back and wait for signs of life and let's see where this will go.

    If the folks at ABO so on and so forth are as willing as I am to look at themselves and do some reengineering, I'm willing to jump in on my favorite love . . . organizational marketing. But, I won't lift a finger, unless the academic and legislative folks are willing to come together to make up two legs of a three legged stool. E Pluribus Unim . . . or however the heck you spell it! United we win, divided we fall!
    Now, where's my Alka Seltzer?:o

  16. #41
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Someone mentioned that the NAOO would never be on the same page as the OAA and NAO (and I agree, the NAOO is a front for anti-opticianry organizations). That is assuming that the OAA and NAO are on the same page! I am a member of the OAA and the NAO. Having said that, I'd like someone to point out five things each organization did with my membership money to help further Opticianry (five specific things).

    Personally, I think the key to our development is going to have to come through a stronger ABO/NCLE in conjunction with a national organization. Why do Optoms resist Opticianry legislation? Easy, no profession likes to be constrained by regulations outside of themselves. The primary employers of Opticians are Optometrists, naturally they are going to resist anything that regulates who they can hire.

    Pete

  17. #42
    Cape Codger OptiBoard Gold Supporter hcjilson's Avatar
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    National Practical/Nat'l Reciprocity

    The National Commitee of State Opticianry Regulatory Boards will be meeting at the OAA Convention in June.The third item on the adgenda of this meeting is entitled A National Practical Exam listing optiboarder Roy Ferguson as presenting the subject.The forth item is National Practical Reciprocity, presented by Shelby Powers.The key to doing anything on a national basis lies within the states, not the various trade associations.If ALL the states would agree on this point,then a lot of progress will have be made.Sad to say I haven't been to this committee meeting in over 20 years for various reasons however I willbe attending this one in June. Unfortunately what has to happen is the states will have to give up their perogatives in terms of testing. That means that states like NY, FL and others will have to be less restrictive, and that won't happen easily.Everyone will be worried that the test will become watered down as was the case with the ABO test.(I have been told that...I have no personal knowledge that the test was watered down from what it was originally-no offense intended)

    Reciprocity is a bad word.By definition, it only can happen if someone moves first.Arizona has led the rest of the states in that regard, but most have not followed.A better word to use is (5/17 Edit) Endorsement. Your home state license will get you one in the state in which you practice. You are responsible to know and follow the rules and regs of the Discipliary actions, if required, are pursued by the issuing state in much the same fashion as drivers licenses are handled.This is being pursued by the MA nursing board at the present time.

    Thats what we should be working on.If a standard practical exam can be adopted by the regulatory boards, and a standard written test adopted,let the national association's concentrate their efforts into bringing non licenced states into the fold.What you have in effect will be national standards governing state licensing.
    Well food for thought anyway, and I'll let you know what develops post Anaheim.
    Please pardon syntax and spelling errors :)
    Best from the Cape
    Last edited by hcjilson; 05-17-2001 at 10:46 AM.
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  18. #43
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    Smilie

    It seems we need to gather together all the states to come to a
    coherent recognition that all states need some sort of testing to regulate the opticians in each state. Or we can go after a national testing that would be ratified by every state to show if you took the test in North Dakota you can if you like practice in New York, because reciprocity would be across the board. You would no longer have to take a test in New York and then in
    North Dakota or Florida. it would be a comprehensive across the
    board national exam excepted by all 50 states.
    Then we need some national recognition of the fact that opticians are part of the allied health field and need to be recognized as such. I believe this is what hihcjilson was getting at.
    But I believe the biggest obstacle in this whole situation is going
    to be trying to get funding to get pubic awareness. Without funding this whole idea is shot down the drain.
    So I believe that the first course of business would be to secure
    funding. Secondly: Getting ratification of a national exam that would be excepted by all 50 states. That should not be to hard. Most of the states already except the ABO. You just have to get the rest of them to ratify it for there states.
    Once we get ratified then we can go forth an amend the ABO so it's not so watered down. Right now it is pretty easy.
    Last edited by rfish777; 05-20-2001 at 03:44 PM.

  19. #44
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    But I believe the biggest obstacle in this whole situation is going to be trying to get funding to get pubic awareness. Without funding this whole idea is shot down the drain.
    I agree with you 100% on this one. My question is who will be gathering the necessary funds? A national organization? Individual state organizations? (Each state would have to have some form of representation then) If it were to be a national organization, would it be one of the existing associations?

    I believe we need a strong national organization with state chapters. We have no efficient means of doing anything with the current system. Some states have no associations others do. Money is being spread thin by the lack of standardization. National associations have the ability to pool funding and as we have all discussed in numerous threads, money talks. I know one obstacle in the way of having a strong national presence is our lack of agreeing on which presence we most strongly support. Why are we getting stuck so early in the game? Either we need to communicate more with these national associations or they need to listen better. Perhaps we need to form an entirely new organization from scratch that represents the interests of our majority.

  20. #45
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    Jo said:
    Why are we getting stuck so early in the game? Either we need to communicate more with these national associations or they need to listen better. Perhaps we need to form an entirely new organization from scratch that represents the interests of our majority.
    Alan said: The legislative function is in place. The educational functions are in place. They need to be reengineered to have more specific impact, becase they are trying to accomplish too much with the available talents. Going public is a marketing function of which few of us knows how to do. But, there is an individual who has proved marketing ability and his name is Joe Bruneni. What he did for polycarbs he can do for opticianry, cause he is one. But, we need to stop thinking for the experts and be the designers of the mission, the objectives, and the goals before we implement anything.
    Again were at that precepise waiting for the sword of damocles to fall while chicken little is still yelling the sky is falling, so we get stuck on the sematics and forget about the whole. The problem is what Alan said on another thread "WHERE ARE ALL THE OPTICIANS?" Where are all the opticians? I see a few of us here but where are the rest? More than likely they are sitting on there
    preverable behinds waiting for some one else to do there bidding.
    Jo said we are getting stuck. Maybe we do need a new organization. One where all opticians would vote from each region for a representative to represent that region. That way we would not be beating around the bush waiting for everybody to get a kick in the rear-end to get going. If we don't start we can't
    begin and if you can't begin you might as well flush all this down the toilet. On these threads we are all alike. We all have two opinions and opinions are like armpits everybody has two. Come on lets get together on this thing.
    As Alan pointed out there is someone who can help us get this thing off the ground. Once that is accomplished we can go after the corporations to provide funding.
    Last edited by rfish777; 05-25-2001 at 10:43 AM.

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