One hour eyeglass lenses vs. mail order lab

[Boowank]

Greetings. I stumbled across this forum and after looking over it I thought perhaps you ladies and gentlemen would be kind enough to help me. I checked the FAQ to see if non-opticians could post here. I didn't see any restrictions so I assume that's all right. If not, please feel free to delete this post.

After 5 years, my flexon frames finally snapped in two. I am now in the search for a new optometrist/opthomolagist and a place to get new glasses. I am badly in need of an eye exam, I am sure.

Most of my life I have gotten my glasses made at Lenscrafters. When they started offering the one hour lenses it was pretty nice but I am beginning to have concerns about this now. When I was a kid glasses had to be mail ordered out and took a couple of weeks.

I tried to find out as much as I could about mail order labs vs. the one hour places. All I could find was some stuff about blanks, semi-blanks, finished blanks, and stock blanks.

My question is, essentially, is there any difference between lenses that Lenscrafters grinds out and those that have to be sent out for? Do the mail order labs just do the same thing, but do it via mail order? Or do they do it more "from scratch" than the finished blanks Lenscrafters (I think) uses? If so, will I notice the difference? Also, Lenscrafters offers a 30 day replacement guarantee (which I know they honor because I used it once) but I don't know that smaller private outfits can afford to do the same. I have no vision insurance so cost is also a factor.

The one hour lenses are convenient, but I'd rather have well done glasses than fast glasses.

I also have some questions about coatings but I'll save those until later, as to not make this post even longer than it already is.

Thank you for your time.

[Alteaon]

Hello,

I do not work at Lenscrafters, but I do work at an office that has as finish lab. This means that I can use blanks to make glasses on site. Blanks are lenses that already have the Rx in them, I use measurements and axis to make sure that when I cut the lens, the Rx will be correct as well as other contributing factors.

As far as in store work vrs. lab work, we are going w/ more of our jobs being done at the central lab ( mail order lab ) this is because some of the options that patients can select from ( Teflon, transitions, hi index, glass, polarized ) are lenses that we do not carry on hand. Also frames that require very large lenses would have to be sent out.

There is a private office down the road w/ a surface lab. They can do bifocals, tris, progressives ect. same day, but they are still limited. We can only stock so much.

The benefit of sending it away is that if there is an error done, the lab has the ability/availability to correct it quicker than I can, by ordering and sending which would take more time.

This is just what I've noticed. Those who work different places/situations will have different experiences/opinions then I do.
When you choose where you want to have your exam and order your glasses, realize that the exam is the most important part of it. Not to discredit anyone's office/practice, but I'd make my choice based on the thoroughness of the exam rather then the cost efficiency of the eyewear. Remember that you can take your Rx anywhere.

As far as what types of policies, warranties an office has, you'd have to check around. My office doesn't offer hour service ( same day on most SV Rx's), and we do not have a 30 blanket gaurantee. Certain lenses we carry have varying warranties. Everyone has different warranties.

In terms of how long mail order/central lab jobs take, it depends on what's being done w/it. Most of our jobs take about 1 work week. Glass and Teflon take us 10 business days. If it's a special order lens it can take nearly two weeks.

I hoped this helped somewhat.

[Cindy K]

My question is, essentially, is there any difference between lenses that Lenscrafters grinds out and those that have to be sent out for? Do the mail order labs just do the same thing, but do it via mail order? Or do they do it more "from scratch" than the finished blanks Lenscrafters (I think) uses? If so, will I notice the difference?

I also have some questions about coatings but I'll save those until later, as to not make this post even longer than it already is.

I'll address your anticipated questions about coatings.

If your prescription is such that must be done as an RX (meaning, custom ground for you) as would be the case with most lined bifocals,trifocals, progressives, prescription over and above the stock uncut blank range, you will not be able to obtain an anti-reflective coating, nor a factory applied scratch-resistant coating on the back side of plastic lenses, from a one-hour service. A semi-finished lens blank is exactly that; the front of the lens is finished, meaning it is already ground and polished and (if plastic) has had applied to the front side a factory abrasion resistant coating . The prescription is then ground onto the back surface. There are abrasion resistant coatings available to be applied 'in-house' but from what I've seen none of them compare to the premium coatings available from wholesale labs such as Essilor or Nikon (sorry, Chris,). If you are wanting an anti-reflective coating and your RX is not available in a stock finished uncut lens blank, it is not possible to obtain that kind of coating in one hour, simple as that. There are no dispensaries which have that technology in-house.

With the multitude of lens products available today, the costs involved in stocking even a fraction of them would be staggering and entirely unrealistic for any dispensary with a lab. This fact will limit your choices as to which brand, features, refractive index and coatings are available to you from a one-hour service. That is not to say, though, that you would not be dispensed with a perfectly suitable pair of glasses, I'm just saying you will be limited in the choices available to you.

As long as your glasses are fabricated accurately, you will not see a difference between a custom ground lens and a stock lens. There are standards involved in the manufacture of lenses and providing that these standards are maintained, a stock lens, or a lens ground in-house will be the same quality as that which is ordered from an outside wholesale lab. Having said that, there are different qualities of DISPENSARIES and OPTICIANS working at dispensaries and different levels of QUALITY and INTEGRITY between dispensaries. THAT is where you will see the difference.

[Boowank]

Thanks to both of you. My glasses are fairly simple. Just single vision (I think that's the proper term). No bifocals, trifocals, etc. Though I was a little ****** my Flexon frames broke....

I must admit that at this point the optician is the main thing I'm worried about. Lenscrafters people are very nice. But other than the occasional adjustment with pliers, I don't know how much they know. My girlfriend has reccomended an eye doctor that sells glasses along with it. A local optician + optometrist was how I got my last pair. They were pretty good but I didn't notice much difference between their glasses and Lenscrafters. I do like to spend on local mom and pop businesses when feasible, but Lenscrafters is cheaper and has a small discount for AAA members.

That being said, I'm more concerned about getting an optician who is good at what they do and will work with me, as I've always had trouble with my glasses.

As for the anti-reflective coating, that is my main concern. I can't decide whether to get it again or not....

I intend to get my eye exam done by someone other than Lenscrafters regardless. My mother reccomends finding an opthomalogist (I saw one when I was a kid) but my father reccomends an optometrist. Still have to figure that one out...

[Chris Ryser]

That being said, I'm more concerned about getting an optician who is good at what they do and will work with me, as I've always had trouble with my glasses.

I my book it says to be suspicous of a commercial venture that hands out warranties of any kind or another.....................

It usually means that the product might not be the right one, or the customer has been pressured to purchase an item that he might not want, so you give and advertise warranties in order to convince the customer he can always exchange if he dont like what he bought.

A good optician does not have to give warranties because he knows what the customers need and gives him proper guidance and the end product is the proper and perfect solution for the customer.

[Cindy K]

As for the anti-reflective coating, that is my main concern. I can't decide whether to get it again or not....

If cleaning and keeping them clean was an issue before, check out some of the new premium AR coatings, such as Essilor's Alize (just using that as an example 'cause I'm soooo thrilled with it myself but I'm sure there are probably others out there in the same category). Trust me, it is so far removed from the old coatings in ease of cleaning you will hardly remember they're coated, it is that easy to clean them. They've also now formulated it with a better anti-static surface than before.

[Ory]

If you switch away from the AR you will most likely regret it. I've seen it several times....you'll complain that the vision is just "not right."

Also, keep in mind that 5 years out of a frame isn't bad. I'm sure others will have better statistics but I recall hearing that the average lifespan of a pair of glasses is about 2.5 years.

[shanbaum]

I my book it says to be suspicous of a commercial venture that hands out warranties of any kind or another.....................

It usually means that the product might not be the right one, or the customer has been pressured to purchase an item that he might not want, so you give and advertise warranties in order to convince the customer he can always exchange if he dont like what he bought.

A good optician does not have to give warranties because he knows what the customers need and gives him proper guidance and the end product is the proper and perfect solution for the customer.

Yes, that's why I always buy all products from people I do not know, against whom I will have no recourse, in case one should prove defective.

[shanbaum]

My question is, essentially, is there any difference between lenses that Lenscrafters grinds out and those that have to be sent out for? Do the mail order labs just do the same thing, but do it via mail order? Or do they do it more "from scratch" than the finished blanks Lenscrafters (I think) uses? If so, will I notice the difference? Also, Lenscrafters offers a 30 day replacement guarantee (which I know they honor because I used it once) but I don't know that smaller private outfits can afford to do the same. I have no vision insurance so cost is also a factor.

In many cases, the "mail order" labs (which probably are not, in fact, "mail order" anymore) use exactly the same materials and equipment that are used by Lenscrafters or other "retail manufacturers" (that is, opticians with on-site surfacing facilities). Lenscrafters is generally not limited to using finished blanks; they usually have surfacing facilities on-site.

However, you will find, as other posters have noted, some limitations in the kinds of products that such an outlet can produce on-site, compared to large wholesale facilities (which you refer to as "mail order"). That may be due to the relatively limited range of materials retailers keep in inventory (some wholesalers have stockrooms larger than many retail outlets in their entirety), or it may be due to the specialized equipment required to produce some products (which, because of cost or other considerations, might be impractical for a retailer to maintain).

So, the short answer to your question is, "it depends" - largely on what you choose to purchase. You may not be able to obtain from any one retailer that which you can from another (just as you usually can't buy a Chevy from a Lexus dealer). It may also be the case that if you choose to purchase a product from a retailer who has manufacturing capability, something that he can't manufacture, he'll just end up obtaining it from some other source. Or he may simply decline to provide it.

In any case, I would disagree with the (rather bizarre) suggestion that what you really need to find is an optician who is so good that he doesn't need to stand behind his work.

[Cindy K]

I my book it says to be suspicous of a commercial venture that hands out warranties of any kind or another.....................

It usually means that the product might not be the right one, or the customer has been pressured to purchase an item that he might not want, so you give and advertise warranties in order to convince the customer he can always exchange if he dont like what he bought.

A good optician does not have to give warranties because he knows what the customers need and gives him proper guidance and the end product is the proper and perfect solution for the customer.

There are vast differences between a "Warranty" and a "Return Policy"

A warranty protects a purchaser from loss of the use of the product due to a defect in the manufacture of the product. The manufacturer of the goods may provide the warranty, or the retailer may provide it, or both, but the fact remains that it is intended for replacement or repair (often at the discretion of the retailer) of the defective part or product.

A return or exchange policy is the policy determined by and marketed by a business to protect the purchaser from loss of use of a purchase due to other factors, such as wrong item purchased, wrong color, unsatisfactory fit, or generally speaking the product failed to meet the consumer's expectations or needs.

I stand behind Chris in his statement that a good dispensary does not need to advertise a return policy,for the reasons he has listed ,and to elaborate, a good dispensary will fulfill warranty issues. However, a good dispenser will fulfill the client's needs correctly the first time around and stand behind their work and at the same time be fair to their employer and the manufacturer of the products in providing warranty service only as is necessary to. There are certain mitigating factors, such as progressive non-adapts, or refractive index or base curve issues that may have a situation fit into both categories but by and large what I see from these No Matter What warranties they are simply a means to advertise and get traffic walking through their doors.

[Boowank]

Coatings and such.

I'm a little reluctant to post further because I've noticed some other consumers getting exocirated for it... and I can understand why. A professional's time is valuable, after all.

Here are some of my concerns:

I got the AR coating on my last pair of glasses. I'm almost certain it was the "Crizal" brand. I've had them so long I don't remember what other glasses were like. I had to yank out an exceedingly old pair of glasses for the time being. Their prescription is way out of date and the frames are not even close to adjusted for my face properly. They do not have AR coating. When I drive I notice that I am seeing glare/reflective/halo effects from headlights that I can't believe. Much, much worse than I ever remember getting (and I was driving with non AR glasses for several years). That much glare *seems* like it must be more than the lack of AR coating. I know I can't focus very well with them.

But I rather hated the coating. For one, my glasses scratched very easily. Much more easily than I would have expected. I had to clean them constantly. Which, actually, I didn't mind that much. It was the scratches that got to me. I'm fairly hard on my glasses but the amount of scratching seemed.... unnatural. I was not, as you might have guessed, using the special cleaning solution and microfiber cloths. That stuff is prohibitively expensive and at the rate I was cleaning them it wouldn't have been long till I spent more money on solution and towels than the glasses. I cleaned my glasses primarily with a cotton ball dipped in rubbing alcohol (followed by a thorough rinse with water) or Windex. I always used a clean cotton bath towel to dry them.

Essentially, the AR coating decision is a risk vs. reward decision. If the AR coating turns out well, that's great. If it turns out badly I have several years of scratched glasses to contend with.

Even tough my Flexons broke (which was odd, since I was putting very little, if any, pressure on them) I think I'll get another pair. While Flexons are incredibly hard to adjust, they pretty much never needed it. The finish/paint came off but that didn't bother me. Plus the frames were wonderfully light.

As for Lenscrafters, I'll probably have to go there, though I'm not thrilled about it. I'm a recent college grad that has not yet found a job. That means my folks will be footing the bill. They aren't stingy but they are frugal. Lenscrafters (probably due to economies of scale) is simply cheaper. Their take is, basically, that if Lenscrafters was good enough for them it's good enough for me. And as it is their money it really is ultimately their decision. I'm lucky they'll spring for glasses for me at all.

My glasses will be pretty simple though. I have no need of bi-focals. I'm still relatively young (27) so the single focal thingies work for me. My prescription isn't *too* horrendous so I can probably go with plain plastic lenses, though I'd prefer polycarbonate, as it is much thinner and lighter. High index is almost certainly out of my price range. I'm kind of splurging on the Flexon in the hopes that the frames will last several years and I can get new lenses put in them over and over again. I'd kind of like to get a second "back up" pair but I'd want to also get them with the Flexon, polycarbonate, etc. which would be prohibitively expensive.

Sorry for the extraordinary length. I was a liberal arts major, after all (essentially). Thanks again for everyone's input. I welcome any information you feel comfortable giving.

And just in case, can anyone reccomend an optician doing business within Oregon? Specifically within or around Clackamas or Multnomah counties.

[Happylady]

Never, never use Windex to clean your glasses. Use AR cleaner or warm soapy water. Windex will break down the AR on glasses.

If you got your last glasses at Lenscrafters, then I highly doubt you got Crizal. Crizal is very scratch resistant. The new Crizal Alize is very scratch resisitant and also very easy to clean. There are several other excellent ARs out there like Teflon, Super High Vision, and Carat Advantage to name a few. Premium ARs have come a long way in 5 years.

Pay a little more and get a premuim AR, it is worth the money.

Also check out Lenscrafters warranty on defective frames and scratched lenses. You have to pay a copay that is pretty big. Check out the warranty of a private optician, often it is much better.

[Boowank]

I didn't get my last pair at Lenscrafters. I got them at a small shop locally. But I had to move and so I can't use those guys anymore.

The coating never peeled, not that I noticed. And I'm 99% sure the coating was "Crizal" (just Crizal, no Alize) because they were advertising it like crazy.

I saw that little tidbit of Lenscrafters warranty. Pretty cheesy, I have to admit.

[Jubilee]

I am amazed that LensCrafters is cheaper....

Call around at some differing optical shops, and get an idea of not only pricing, but friendliness, knowledge, willingness to help, etc..

While certain dispensaries are more expensive both exam and glasses wise, many aren't.

I can also tell you our exams are more than LC's, but our glasses are 30% less...

As far as products go, LC uses many of the same vendors as the wholesalers. However, due to economies of scale, it is not the premium products. Certain brands are simply not allowed to be readily available to the chains. They are reserved for the independent practicioner.

LC's warranty is a 50% copay on the replacement frame/lenses during the first year. This is only for one year as well. Certain frames, such as the ones made by their parent company that carry a 2 year warranty through the independent. Of course they will also only charge 50% if the dog eats them too, but many independents offer savings for these situations as well.

Cassandra

[Boowank]

It's largely not up to me, at this point. I'll do some shopping around if I can. I imagine many shops are not eager to give someone an estimate. After all, they have to help me pick a frame, pick a lens, etc. without getting a nickel.

I think I'll have to get the coating again. It was the scratches, not the dirt (for the most part) that bothered me about that coating. I'll probably go with polycarbonate for a material as plastic has always been too thick and the high index is out of my price range.

You know, I don't know that I've ever seen an optician. I may have and not known it. Whenever I've gone to get glasses I always say sales people. And other than adjusting the glasses on my face and very briefly using a machine that (I believe) measures the distance between pupils I've never seen them do anything "technical."
Oregon does not license opticians so it's doubly hard to know what their qualifications are.

I suppose I'm most eyewear places nightmare. I know just enough to be dangerous, as they say.

[Boowank]

If I might ask again, please:

Can anyone reccomend a good optician/shop in the greater Portland Metro Area, in the state of the Oregon? I live near the city of Gladstone. I prefer not to go into downtown Portland if I can help it but if that is what is required I'll cheerfully go. I'm going to my eye exam done at a doctor's office and then just hold on to the prescription until I find a good shop. The doctors office I'm going to see does have an optical shop but I'd rather wait and see if I can find someone before I just go to their shop.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I have asked my family and friends and all of them go to places either Binyon's or Lenscrafters so I can't get a reccomendation from them.

[Chris Ryser]

I think I'll have to get the coating again. It was the scratches, not the dirt (for the most part) that bothered me about that coating.

I suppose I'm most eyewear places nightmare. I know just enough to be dangerous, as they say.

1) Be assured there is nothing in optical lenses that does not scratch.......even the most expensive AR coating. If you don't take proper care of them you be in the same old situation of condemning them. The only lens that does NOT scratch is the lens on my "Rado" watch and I wonder that in the optical nobody can come up with the same principle.

2) You have learned enough here to order what you think you want and when you go to the optician you finally are going to choose dont be a pain in the ..............., order what you know want and dont display your newly found wisdom. :D

[Bill West]

I can't believe some "CHEAP SKATE" who is of no concern to anybody on here unless you sell "MAIL ORDER GLASSES" can get all the responses from you people.

[Alteaon]

I can't believe some "CHEAP SKATE" who is of no concern to anybody on here unless you sell "MAIL ORDER GLASSES" can get all the responses from you people.

The reason that "us people" ( love that line.) can get so many responses is because he is asking questions and we are providing answers. I'm amazed that you didn't figure that out considering that you know that he's a "cheap skate", and what our concerns are.

If a person wants information, the best thing to do is ask, and do what they will with the new found information. Obviously you do not feel the need to reply to the poster's original question, so why is it a concern to you that the rest of us do answer ?

[Boowank]

I have no intention of buying via mail order. That just seems silly to me. Who would I go to if I need frame adjustments or the glasses aren't working out well?

I don't suppose any of you folks practice in my area, do you?

Please keep in mind, Mr. West, that this isn't my money. It is generously being donated by my parents. Therefore I am not as free in my choices as I otherwise would be. The next time (probably in a year or two) that I get new glasses I intend to go to a local independent shop. I'm hoping that I will be able to this time around, but I don't know.

I mostly wanted to know about the lens manufacturing. The AR coatings are, I imagine, something I'll just have to see test out for myself.

It might be a horrible strain on your servers, but perhaps you could put together a topic in which consumers can share their stories with each other. Then perhaps consumers wouldn't bug you guys so much.

I would be discussing this kind of stuff with my own optician if I had one. Between moving and not having gotten new glasses for 5 years, I have no relationship established with most of the medical services I need to. College does that to you. So I'm kind of in limbo here.

That being said, I think it's always wonderful to get a diversity of opinion, especially from skilled professionals. I know this forum is primarily for opticians to consult with one another and I therefore consider an act of community service that you folks will answer so many consumer questions.
And because I appreciate that I was looking around the computer forum to see if I could help some people out in return.

[Boowank]

I just realized I may not have made one thing clear. When I said "mail order" I wasn't talking about getting a prescription and sending it to some online shop for the lenses. I was talking about optical shops that grind the lenses in house (Lenscrafters and friends) vs. optical shops that don't have their own labs and have to send orders to some other location to be processed. I'd be going through a physical, brick and mortar optical shop either way. I just didn't know if there was much difference between the lens making at Lenscrafters and the lens making at a lab that takes orders from various independent optical shops.

[shanbaum]

I can't believe some "CHEAP SKATE" who is of no concern to anybody on here unless you sell "MAIL ORDER GLASSES" can get all the responses from you people.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged." Matthew 7:1.

[Bill West]

#1 College education
#2 27 years old
#3 Wearing 5 year old frame
#4 debating if you should go LC or mail order
#5 wants plain ole plastic
#6 good ole dad and mom are buying these, what no money spent it all on girlfriend
at least i'd get my money parents are always good for it
grow up sonny and get a job, become independent
try the lion's club save your parents $$

I have no intention of buying via mail order. That just seems silly to me. Who would I go to if I need frame adjustments or the glasses aren't working out well?

I don't suppose any of you folks practice in my area, do you?

Please keep in mind, Mr. West, that this isn't my money. It is generously being donated by my parents. Therefore I am not as free in my choices as I otherwise would be. The next time (probably in a year or two) that I get new glasses I intend to go to a local independent shop. I'm hoping that I will be able to this time around, but I don't know.

I mostly wanted to know about the lens manufacturing. The AR coatings are, I imagine, something I'll just have to see test out for myself.

It might be a horrible strain on your servers, but perhaps you could put together a topic in which consumers can share their stories with each other. Then perhaps consumers wouldn't bug you guys so much.

I would be discussing this kind of stuff with my own optician if I had one. Between moving and not having gotten new glasses for 5 years, I have no relationship established with most of the medical services I need to. College does that to you. So I'm kind of in limbo here.

That being said, I think it's always wonderful to get a diversity of opinion, especially from skilled professionals. I know this forum is primarily for opticians to consult with one another and I therefore consider an act of community service that you folks will answer so many consumer questions.
And because I appreciate that I was looking around the computer forum to see if I could help some people out in return.

[Ory]

Bill, please read an entire thread before spouting off on the poor (literally) guy. He used the term "mail order" referring to an optician/optometrist using a third party lab to make his lenses. He was asking for oinions on this vs. those who will provide one hour service in the office (carrying stock uncuts or surfacing).

Do I think you should be relying on your parents at age 27? Doubtful, but we don't know the whole story. He may have worked for a while, hated his job, and went back for some more education. He may have a masters or PhD, which are quite costly. Perhaps the glasses are going to be a grad gift. Who cares.

At least he is trying to become better educated before making a moderately expensive purchase. Please have a little sympathy for those who haven't spent several years in the optical industry.

Boowank, please don't get discouraged by some of the less friendly posts. As you'll figure out by the "stupidest question" thread we sometimes are just amazed, and a little annoyed, at the sheer lack of knowledge about our industry. Good luck to you.

[Boowank]

Mr. West,

Good Lord man, what is your problem?