Is anti reflective coating usually ordered with new glasses these days?

[Chris Ryser]

Can you really sell someone a pair of $500.00+ glasses and tell them the lenses will turn to junk after one, maybe two years at the outside?
Chip

There are so many factors that will play a role to turn the product as you say "into junk", like:

environment................fumes...............lens cleaners..............extreme temperatures.........abrasion.................abuse and probably many more.

20......30.......40 years ago there was no warranty on anything in glasses, you would get 1 year or 12,000 mile on a car whatever make you purchased.

These days the competition has become so fierce for market domination that warranties have become the in thing for market domination, but the customer pays for it out front.

[Mikef]

Any warranty is an insurance against something costly happening to the product........................

Reolacements cost money.......time.....effort........and so forth

If you believe in Santa you also think that this is a freebie..................it is not it is always incorporated into the selling price. A portion of your purchasing cost covers that warranty.

Therefore it is worth calculating if another product is that much less expensive so that a warranty is not needed.

Chris,
When posting you really should state your conflicts of intrest.

You sell non-branded less expensive coats! Right!

[Diane]

Hello~

Do most of your patients have the anti reflective coating put on their lenses? When I ordered mine recently the optician felt that I would be happy with something called Alise<---? I can't quite make out all the lettering. i just took it for granted that it's part of the package nowadays. It does seem nice to have the glare. Several years ago if I remember correctly I had a pair of regular glasses -not progressive-with a type of anti reflective coating. It didn't seem high quality. I didn't think to ask the optician. I'm just curious if most of your patients order the coating when puchasing new glasses.

Thank you in advance.

Go to your eyecare professional for specific answers. On this forum you will get a number of answers all across the board on various types of coatings, warranties, etc. There are any number of qualities of coatings, and the prices will be reflected in the quality of the coating. Personally, I believe in quality coatings. Major manufacturers have done a great amount of research and development to produce these coatings. Research and development demands that costs be recovered in the product.

There was a purple hue on the top of the lens. Is this customary for this type of coating?

The resultant surface colors will be different depending on the manufacturer. Because you are a consumer, I won't go into the stack, ect., that produces this hue.

I'm just curious if most of your patients order the coating when puchasing new glasses.

Although there are some on the board who will disagree with this, and I don't intend to get into a debate here on these comments; research has been done by professionals much more intelligent than I am who prove that surface reflections reduce the amount of light, (not glare) that gets to the eye. Surface reflections can be as little as 4% on each surface, meaning the front and the back surface totalling 8% reflections equating to 8% less vision for the wearer. As the index of refraction goes up, and many lens materials today are higher index, the % of surface reflections also go up, meaning that a wearer may experience as much a 16% surface reflections equating to a loss of 16% of clear vision.

If I am making eyewear for anyone that I love, I want them to see as clearly as possible, therefore, I will ALWAYS use an anti-reflective coating to allow them that right. Why would I offer my patients anything else? I don't believe that a patient should have to ORDER the coating. The eyecare professional should educate the patient as to the advantages of it, first, and then allow the patient the choice to have the best vision available.

If you want to see some comparisons and explainations, go to www.visioncareproducts.com and type in AR coatings and you will get a number of articles that describe the different coatings and some of their particular benefits.

Just my 2 cents worth, today.

Diane:o

[Chris Ryser]

Can you really sell someone a pair of $500.00+ glasses and tell them the lenses will turn to junk after one, maybe two years at the outside?
Chip

Chip, there are ways and means to protect lenses these days, even done at the reatail level that abobe argument is not very valid anymore.

[shellrob]

The biggest thing I notice patients doing wrong was the cloth that they were cleaning their lenses with. Yea, it's great that they're using the cloth I gave them, but they never wash it therefore cleaning their glasses with the same cloth for years. It's filthy and has dirt and debris all over it. No wonder the lenses scratched.

[For-Life]

The biggest thing I notice patients doing wrong was the cloth that they were cleaning their lenses with. Yea, it's great that they're using the cloth I gave them, but they never wash it therefore cleaning their glasses with the same cloth for years. It's filthy and has dirt and debris all over it. No wonder the lenses scratched.

That is why I like Kleenex ( not the wood fibers)

[shellrob]

hee hee. Yea, but we all know that no matter what we tell some patients, they won't do it and then wonder why their lenses are scratched. Hmmmm.:hammer:

[Happylady]

I explain how to use the cloth and how to wash it, but I tell them the best thing to use at home is a Bounty paper towel. I also tell them to rinse the lenses under running water at least once a day.

[Chris Ryser]

so I am very hesitant to ask for them to be redone now due to the scratches...

That's what what you get when you believe all the BS of advertising, best brand name lenses with AR and the works. There is nothing that does not scratch and you made them.

However as you paid plenty enough for them, get them re-done and take advantage of this stupid warranty system.

[roxysmom]

That's what what you get when you believe all the BS of advertising, best brand name lenses with AR and the works. There is nothing that does not scratch and you made them.

However as you paid plenty enough for them, get them re-done and take advantage of this stupid warranty system.

It wasn't the BS of advertising that enticed me to get the Crizal alize--it was the high recommendation of my supposedly experienced ECP. I was taking his advice because i didn't know nuthin':idea: He swore by the Crizal alize-and it is the only AR coating that they use at that optical shop. And I did not expect them to scratch in the first two weeks of having them...
If any of you know of a real ECP in the Minneapolis area--I am very open to suggestions for when I have to get new glasses.
Again--I am afraid to have my glasses redone due to the scratches because I am worried that it took them three tries the first time to get the lenses right, and I truly do not want to be a "difficult patient" who is never happy.

[Chris Ryser]

He swore by the Crizal alize-and it is the only AR coating that they use at that optical shop. And I did not expect them to scratch in the first two weeks of having them...

............................ I truly do not want to be a "difficult patient" who is never happy.

You purchased the coating on your lenses with a warranty..........you paid for it............and if it covers scratching, take full advantage of as long as the warranty is valid. You have already paid for another pair out front.

[chip anderson]

You should be covered by a warrantied but the fact that something is more scratch resistant does not have anything to do with the time it will take you to scratch them. If you buy a new car and have a wreck leaving the parking lot on day one, it's not the car's fault. If you throw a rod leaving the lot, it may be the car's fault. If the lens scratched early on it is a result of something you did in handeling the lenses, need to check you habits to prevent repetition.

Sorry to come down on the customer but even an uncoated lens could remain scratch free forever in some peoples care and a glass lens could be scratched in minites with the right set of circumstances.

Chip

[shellrob]

You should be covered by a warrantied but the fact that something is more scratch resistant does not have anything to do with the time it will take you to scratch them. If you buy a new car and have a wreck leaving the parking lot on day one, it's not the car's fault. If you throw a rod leaving the lot, it may be the car's fault. If the lens scratched early on it is a result of something you did in handeling the lenses, need to check you habits to prevent repetition.

Sorry to come down on the customer but even an uncoated lens could remain scratch free forever in some peoples care and a glass lens could be scratched in minites with the right set of circumstances.

Chip

EXACTLY!!!!EXACTLY!!!!EXACTLY!!!!!!!

[Happylady]

It wasn't the BS of advertising that enticed me to get the Crizal alize--it was the high recommendation of my supposedly experienced ECP. I was taking his advice because i didn't know nuthin':idea: He swore by the Crizal alize-and it is the only AR coating that they use at that optical shop. And I did not expect them to scratch in the first two weeks of having them...
If any of you know of a real ECP in the Minneapolis area--I am very open to suggestions for when I have to get new glasses.
Again--I am afraid to have my glasses redone due to the scratches because I am worried that it took them three tries the first time to get the lenses right, and I truly do not want to be a "difficult patient" who is never happy.

I use a lot of Crizal Alize and have had no problems with scratching.
Have other people had problems with scratching with the coating?

[Chris Ryser]

I use a lot of Crizal Alize and have had no problems with scratching.
Have other people had problems with scratching with the coating?

Of course you have no problems if you take good care of them.

But when you drag them on the cement floor and clean them with steelwool and alcohol even your beloved Crizal Alize will scatch as much as all the others.

The scratching is done on the outer layer which made with SIO2 which is the ingredient all of them AR lenses are made from..........and even your beloved brand name coating will do it.

[Happylady]

Of course you have no problems if you take good care of them.

But when you drag them on the cement floor and clean them with steelwool and alcohol even your beloved Crizal Alize will scatch as much as all the others.

The scratching is done on the outer layer which made with SIO2 which is the ingredient all of them AR lenses are made from..........and even your beloved brand name coating will do it.

Of course any lens will scratch if not taken proper care of. Roxysmom was saying her previous lenses weren't scratched nearly as badly as her 2 week old Crizals. I don't know if her other lenses had AR on them, though.

[roxysmom]

Of course any lens will scratch if not taken proper care of. Roxysmom was saying her previous lenses weren't scratched nearly as badly as her 2 week old Crizals. I don't know if her other lenses had AR on them, though.

Hi Happylady--Yes--they had plain old Crizal on them--a bit harder to clean-but they still look almost like new--almost no scratches at all.

[roxysmom]

You should be covered by a warrantied but the fact that something is more scratch resistant does not have anything to do with the time it will take you to scratch them. If you buy a new car and have a wreck leaving the parking lot on day one, it's not the car's fault. If you throw a rod leaving the lot, it may be the car's fault. If the lens scratched early on it is a result of something you did in handeling the lenses, need to check you habits to prevent repetition.

Sorry to come down on the customer but even an uncoated lens could remain scratch free forever in some peoples care and a glass lens could be scratched in minites with the right set of circumstances.

Chip

The thing is--I DO take good care of them...I use the cloth that they came with--I wash the cloth by hand a couple times a week--the glasses are either on my face, or in the case. And again--my old pair are not scratched after two years-while my new pair were scratched with in the first couple of weeks. I only use the cleaner my ECP sold me, and before I spray the cleaner on, I rinse my glasses under running water...I think Happylady told me to do that early on, when I first mentioned that they were already scratched within the first two weeks. I do not scrape them on cement-I do not use steel wool or acetone on them as was suggested in a post above. I mean for the money I spent on them--would you really think I wouldn't take care of them?? I seriously think that I would go back to Crizal next time...
As far as AR goes--I definitely like an AR coating better than not having it--It makes a huge difference with night driving, and it makes a difference in my line of work.

[Twobadapples]

...

[GOS_Queen]

The thing is--I DO take good care of them...I use the cloth that they came with--I wash the cloth by hand a couple times a week--the glasses are either on my face, or in the case. And again--my old pair are not scratched after two years-while my new pair were scratched with in the first couple of weeks. I only use the cleaner my ECP sold me, and before I spray the cleaner on, I rinse my glasses under running water...I think Happylady told me to do that early on, when I first mentioned that they were already scratched within the first two weeks. I do not scrape them on cement-I do not use steel wool or acetone on them as was suggested in a post above. I mean for the money I spent on them--would you really think I wouldn't take care of them?? I seriously think that I would go back to Crizal next time...
As far as AR goes--I definitely like an AR coating better than not having it--It makes a huge difference with night driving, and it makes a difference in my line of work.

Perhaps you are one of the consumers who has actually listened to their eyecare professional. Perhaps you really do think of your eyewear as an investment. I applaud you if you do ~ from my years of dispensing, however, I think I've become (naturally) jaded when I see eyewear that has obviously been abused and people have tried to convince me that "they just went to put them on and they were like that". Or, having witnessed countless people tell me their glasses are scratched but they "only" clean them properly ... they tell me this while they breathe on their glasses to fog them up and then wipe them on their shirt as they are telling me this. :hammer:

I'm not saying that you were doing that, just trying to give you an idea of what a dispenser is up against on a regular basis.

[Cindy K]

To reply to the question first asked at the beginning of this thread: I'd approximate that 75% of my dispensing is with AR plastic lenses, both stock and RX. Of that percentage I'd say that 75% is with a Crizal product, the remainder are value-priced brands. Of the Crizal product, I'd say that 30% is Alize, which I recommend mainly to individuals who may be in an environment which makes it difficult to properly clean their lenses. By properly clean, I mean rinse under water, spray with cleaner or a touch of dish soap, rub around lenses with clean finger and final rinse before drying with clean cloth.

I actually demo the difference between Alize and regular Crizal by using two pairs of my own glasses. I'll grab a lens with my fingers and give a good smear both front and back (added to the skin oil I'm depositing is a healthy layer of the hand cream ever-present on my constantly washed and lubed-up hands) of an Alize-coated lens and the regular Crizal coated lens. Then, I'll pick a piece of whatever loose clothing I'm wearing (inside of my jacket, scarf, blouse, whatever will give me a fingerhold on the lenses) and quickly wipe away any evidence of the smears from the Alize lenses. The regular Crizal is not so easy, though. All the fingerprints do with the aforementioned cleaning method, successful on the Alize, is redistribute itself to form a fog on the lens, until i get a towel and bottle of spray cleaner out to finish the job properly. Try it yourself some time. Its amazing. And, bonus, i've had these Alize lenses for seven months now, and not a single scratch. And I hear nothing but favorable feedback from my clients who purchase this coating. I've invoked the warranty on the coating perhaps three or four times since we began using it about two years ago; once for failure to adhere, the others for scratches.

Now, scratching brings me to the next point. I don't offer my glasses a fraction the same respect that I encourage my clients to exert to their lenses. Mine are rarely in their case when not on my face, the Alize lenses rarely get rinsed before cleaning (usually in the same manner as described above) and I live in my glasses. My 130lb dog has a nasty habit of jumping on me if I'm sitting on his sofa and I can't count the times he's put a paw up to my shoulder but missed (he's monocular, bad depth perception at near) and sent my glasses flying into the window or across the hardwood floor. Another bad incident I had sent my glasses off my face, over a railing, 25 feet across the hardwood, under the sofa and up against the log with a temple lodged between the log and the floor. Oh, and I can't forget the time I was hiking at the creek and a treebranch caught my temple and sailed my glasses off my head and into the sand under a rock. Or the time I was out riding an ATV and got a faceful of mud and ended up tossing the specs into a coat pocket, mud and all, to continue my ride. (I should note here also, i wear two pairs of Silhouette rimless, one with CR39 the other Airwear. Have only ever broken one lens in the 8 years I've been wearing them; I opened a door full force on the side of my head.). I camp in the summer, fish whenever I can, garden, live in a dusty house where my glasses flip over onto their faces at night when I'm sleeping, BUT THEY'RE NOT SCRATCHED. Do I have horse-shoes? Perhaps i do. But if after wearing glasses for 22 years and knowing how I treat them, how is it that everyone else seems to take such immaculate care of their eyewear and yet the lenses get to be in such bad shape after such a short period of time? I just don't get it . I had one pair that after two years had several fine scratches, but I attribute that to the AR on them; it was a product we now know lacks the durability of the Essilor products. Even my hubby, who really does take surprisingly good care of his glasses, has a few hairline scratches but still its hard to believe they're nearing three years old!

Anything will scratch, given the right set of circumstances. I've seen the mess that a single grain of sand rubbed round and round on a lens while cleaning will produce. I've also seen what a cycle in the washing machine will do to a pair of lenses. And what a sharp edge on a fingernail will do when that finger is repetitively used to rub an eye. What the rough edge on the eyepieces of a set of binoculars will do to the lens surface. We've all seen these things. Now, when I wash my car and get scratches on the paint from failing to use the two-bucket rule, or for that matter insist on driving too close to the branches when backing into my driveway, its unlikely that I'm going to go to my Chrysler dealership and order that they warranty my paint job because I have swirl marks and scratches from my own causes. But that is exactly what eyewear clients do when they return with a pair of scratched lenses and claim they did nothing to warrant the now-poor condition of their lenses.

[SpexAppeal]

Hello~

You've sold me! Not to say that I plan to put my new glasses with Crizal Alize through what yours have gone through! But it certainly makes me feel better for having ordered it. I wish my optician had been as thorough about explaining the differences between the different coatings as you have however. Maybe it's just because he's so used to selling the Alize that he merely takes it for granted. Well, we shall see tomorrow when I pick them up.

To reply to the question first asked at the beginning of this thread: I'd approximate that 75% of my dispensing is with AR plastic lenses, both stock and RX. Of that percentage I'd say that 75% is with a Crizal product, the remainder are value-priced brands. Of the Crizal product, I'd say that 30% is Alize, which I recommend mainly to individuals who may be in an environment which makes it difficult to properly clean their lenses. By properly clean, I mean rinse under water, spray with cleaner or a touch of dish soap, rub around lenses with clean finger and final rinse before drying with clean cloth.

I actually demo the difference between Alize and regular Crizal by using two pairs of my own glasses. I'll grab a lens with my fingers and give a good smear both front and back (added to the skin oil I'm depositing is a healthy layer of the hand cream ever-present on my constantly washed and lubed-up hands) of an Alize-coated lens and the regular Crizal coated lens. Then, I'll pick a piece of whatever loose clothing I'm wearing (inside of my jacket, scarf, blouse, whatever will give me a fingerhold on the lenses) and quickly wipe away any evidence of the smears from the Alize lenses. The regular Crizal is not so easy, though. All the fingerprints do with the aforementioned cleaning method, successful on the Alize, is redistribute itself to form a fog on the lens, until i get a towel and bottle of spray cleaner out to finish the job properly. Try it yourself some time. Its amazing. And, bonus, i've had these Alize lenses for seven months now, and not a single scratch. And I hear nothing but favorable feedback from my clients who purchase this coating. I've invoked the warranty on the coating perhaps three or four times since we began using it about two years ago; once for failure to adhere, the others for scratches.

Now, scratching brings me to the next point. I don't offer my glasses a fraction the same respect that I encourage my clients to exert to their lenses. Mine are rarely in their case when not on my face, the Alize lenses rarely get rinsed before cleaning (usually in the same manner as described above) and I live in my glasses. My 130lb dog has a nasty habit of jumping on me if I'm sitting on his sofa and I can't count the times he's put a paw up to my shoulder but missed (he's monocular, bad depth perception at near) and sent my glasses flying into the window or across the hardwood floor. Another bad incident I had sent my glasses off my face, over a railing, 25 feet across the hardwood, under the sofa and up against the log with a temple lodged between the log and the floor. Oh, and I can't forget the time I was hiking at the creek and a treebranch caught my temple and sailed my glasses off my head and into the sand under a rock. Or the time I was out riding an ATV and got a faceful of mud and ended up tossing the specs into a coat pocket, mud and all, to continue my ride. (I should note here also, i wear two pairs of Silhouette rimless, one with CR39 the other Airwear. Have only ever broken one lens in the 8 years I've been wearing them; I opened a door full force on the side of my head.). I camp in the summer, fish whenever I can, garden, live in a dusty house where my glasses flip over onto their faces at night when I'm sleeping, BUT THEY'RE NOT SCRATCHED. Do I have horse-shoes? Perhaps i do. But if after wearing glasses for 22 years and knowing how I treat them, how is it that everyone else seems to take such immaculate care of their eyewear and yet the lenses get to be in such bad shape after such a short period of time? I just don't get it . I had one pair that after two years had several fine scratches, but I attribute that to the AR on them; it was a product we now know lacks the durability of the Essilor products. Even my hubby, who really does take surprisingly good care of his glasses, has a few hairline scratches but still its hard to believe they're nearing three years old!

Anything will scratch, given the right set of circumstances. I've seen the mess that a single grain of sand rubbed round and round on a lens while cleaning will produce. I've also seen what a cycle in the washing machine will do to a pair of lenses. And what a sharp edge on a fingernail will do when that finger is repetitively used to rub an eye. What the rough edge on the eyepieces of a set of binoculars will do to the lens surface. We've all seen these things. Now, when I wash my car and get scratches on the paint from failing to use the two-bucket rule, or for that matter insist on driving too close to the branches when backing into my driveway, its unlikely that I'm going to go to my Chrysler dealership and order that they warranty my paint job because I have swirl marks and scratches from my own causes. But that is exactly what eyewear clients do when they return with a pair of scratched lenses and claim they did nothing to warrant the now-poor condition of their lenses.

[Chris Ryser]

Well, we shall see tomorrow when I pick them up.

And please don't scratch them in 2 days.

[CJ65]

"I sell a lot of AR because I take the time to show my patients what it does. I don't just ask if they want AR, I take a pair of glasses with one lens with it and one without and show it and explain it fully.

I proabably sell 75% to adults. Another optician I work with sells less then 25%. I always mention AR, she doesn't. I think this is wrong, we should always give the patient the option."

i also sell a lot of AR and it's because I do the same thing. I take a reg frame w/demo lenses from the floor and put it on my face while sitting in front of the cust. - then I put on MY glasses w/the AR coat. 75% of them go for the AR. I also always ask the following 3 questions:

1) do you do a lot of night driving?
2) do you spend much time in front of a computer?
3) do you work with the public in any capacity where you are face-to-face with people who should be able to see your eyes clearly?

Out of the maybe 150 pts I have sold AR to I have had maybe 2 or 3 complain to me that they don't like them. Mostly because smudges are more noticeable and they have to be cleaned more often. These people are just really A/R. http://www.optiboard.com/forums/newr...te=1&p=138820#

[Happylady]

The thing is--I DO take good care of them...I use the cloth that they came with--I wash the cloth by hand a couple times a week--the glasses are either on my face, or in the case. And again--my old pair are not scratched after two years-while my new pair were scratched with in the first couple of weeks. I only use the cleaner my ECP sold me, and before I spray the cleaner on, I rinse my glasses under running water...I think Happylady told me to do that early on, when I first mentioned that they were already scratched within the first two weeks. I do not scrape them on cement-I do not use steel wool or acetone on them as was suggested in a post above. I mean for the money I spent on them--would you really think I wouldn't take care of them?? I seriously think that I would go back to Crizal next time...
As far as AR goes--I definitely like an AR coating better than not having it--It makes a huge difference with night driving, and it makes a difference in my line of work.

It just doesn't make any sense that they scratched so badly so fast. Perhaps you got a defective AR.