Civil discussion about abortion

[Spexvet]

Currently, the abortion debate has no middle ground. Could it be possible to have a "system" where the Pro-choice and Pro-life factions are both satisfied?

If elected King of the World, this is how I would propose resolving the abortion issue.

1. Provide free condoms for anyone who wants them. These can be provided by anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations.
2. Allow first and second term abortions, virtually unrestricted. Folks need to make a decision in a timely fashion.
3. Make pregnancy care free to everyone, including prenatal healthcare, medication and vitamins, and food and board, where necessary. Anti-abortion Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.
4. Reduce red tape for adoptions, except parent qualifications.
5. Subsidize the cost of raising a child, by A-A NGOs.
6. Educate teenagers about sex. Pro-choice Non-Governmental Organizations can cover this expense.
7. Eliminate negative connotations about premarital pregnancy.

I’d try an approach than would aim to prevent unwanted pregnancies, reduce the penalty for carrying a fetus to full term, ease the financial burden of raising a child, and encourage someone other than the parent(s) to raise a child that was carried full term instead of being aborted.

Would this strategy satisfy both sides?

Please provide constructive criticism of this plan, any ideas will be appreciated- please don't bother posting "it just won't work". The King of the World election is coming up soon, and I need to get my platform finalized!

[karen]

Thoughtful post Spexie, I like how you laid it all out and explained things.

While the folks at Planned Parenthood may have some of the funds to offset some of the programs you suggested, I don't think there is an anti-abortion group well funded enough to subsidize any of those programs-I would suggest churches but that might cause it's own set of issues.

And there is still that pesky issue of when life begins which is really sort of ground zero for the difference of opinion. It is my personal opinion that will always be the problem in getting both sides to be "satisfied"

So you are running under the "King of the World" platform? I am going for the "Supreme Dictator" platform myself....

[Spexvet]

Thoughtful post Spexie, I like how you laid it all out and explained things.

While the folks at Planned Parenthood may have some of the funds to offset some of the programs you suggested, I don't think there is an anti-abortion group well funded enough to subsidize any of those programs-I would suggest churches but that might cause it's own set of issues.
....

If anti-abortion organizations stopped the expenses needed for all their other "programs" (printing leaflets, etc), there would be more cash for constructive issues.

[chm2023]

I think parental notification and spousal notification are reasonable, and I think there should be negative connotations about teenage pregnancy--breaking that cycle should be a major goal of gov't, religion, private orgs.

Also, make the morning after pill available and affordable.

[chip anderson]

I concider abortion to be murdering your own child.

However if abortion is to be allowed it should be with a manditory complimentary sterilization.

Chip

[chm2023]

I concider abortion to be murdering your own child.

However if abortion is to be allowed it should be with a manditory complimentary sterilization.

Chip

..seems like an odd sort of compliment.

Sorry, couldn't resist!:bbg:

[Diane]

I concider abortion to be murdering your own child.

However if abortion is to be allowed it should be with a manditory complimentary sterilization.

Chip

I believe that life begins at conception, as well.

Diane

[Spexvet]

I believe that life begins at conception, as well.

Diane

Thank you for your input. Some people believe the Sabbath is on Friday. Enough said.

Now. What constructive input do you and Chip have for my plan? Do you think it would reduce abortions? Are you willing to compromise at all? Do you think your position of "I believe that life begins at conception" has worked to reduce the number of abortions?

[Spexvet]

I concider abortion to be murdering your own child.

However if abortion is to be allowed it should be with a manditory complimentary sterilization.

Chip

Chip, do you remember your own words?

You sho' seem to love stone throwing.
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

[Diane]

Are you willing to compromise at all? Do you think your position of "I believe that life begins at conception" has worked to reduce the number of abortions?

No compromise. I can think of a few (some that would have been aborted, that are particularly grateful) that are here because of this belief. Since the conversation would become debate, ie argument, I don't know how much I would offer, but believe that if I don't share this particular belief, I would not be honest. I don't judge others, but disagree with the act.

Diane

[Blake]

Thank you for your input. Some people believe the Sabbath is on Friday. Enough said.

Now. What constructive input do you and Chip have for my plan? Do you think it would reduce abortions? Are you willing to compromise at all? Do you think your position of "I believe that life begins at conception" has worked to reduce the number of abortions?

As KotW, would you be willing to allow things like slavery, genocide and say, ritual genital mutilation in a few cases if it would lower the overall occurence - or is there no room for compromise? 'Nuff said.

[Karenrp1956]

After the fall out from my last post I am leery about this one, but I must. Watching the news and reading the paper and seeing the destruction the human race has brought apond itself from parents on babies, children on parents and just person apond person, is it any wonder why we are like this when we treat the youngest and most vulnable of ourselves in they way we do.


The one place our babies should be safe is in the mother's womb.

[chip anderson]

The Sabbath is actually sundown Friday til Sundown Saturday.
I have always been amazed at the powers that moved the Sabath to Sunday. The audacity of changing something that was written by the Hand of God!

Chip

And before you ask, I attend Church on Sunday and work most Saturdays.

[Pete Hanlin]

If anti-abortion organizations stopped the expenses needed for all their other "programs" (printing leaflets, etc), there would be more cash for constructive issues.

Thank you for your input. Some people believe the Sabbath is on Friday. Enough said.
So this is what you meant by a "civil" discussion of abortion? That's interesting- as is your division of the expenses (pro-choice funds, and I would assume therefore determines the content of sex education... pro-life funds the results when this education fails to produce good choices- i.e., abstinence- which is the only 100% solution for avoiding unwanted pregnancies or STDs out of marriage).

The debate surrounding abortion is best described as an "absolute conflict." That is, by definition there is no compromise that will appease both sides, because their views are in absolute opposition. A similar situation exists between Israel and its neighbors.

Pro-life supporters believe life begins at conception- meaning the baby has a right to life. Pro-choice supporters either believe that life does not begin until emergence from the womb- or they hold that life begins at some point in the womb, but the mother has a right to determine if the baby should live or not depending upon her own circumstances.

[karen]

If anti-abortion organizations stopped the expenses needed for all their other "programs" (printing leaflets, etc), there would be more cash for constructive issues.

Mkay. If Planned Parenthood quit raking in the cash from performing so many abortions, they'd be in the same position as the anti abortion folks...and then both sides would be too broke to help. :hammer:

Ok, I belong to a few anti abortion organizations and we don't print leaflets so if that is all you think we do you are a bit misinformed-and as KOTW I expect better from you. We do save an occaisional baby and provide services for women that prefer other alternatives. We even have our own crisis pregnancy centers where you can see things like the stages of developement and get an ultrasound. There are adoption resources on site.

Now that you've got my back up shall we continue??

[spartus]

Mkay. If Planned Parenthood quit raking in the cash from performing so many abortions, they'd be in the same position as the anti abortion folks...and then both sides would be too broke to help.

Planned Parenthood, of course, is a non-profit organization.

[Spexvet]

If anti-abortion organizations stopped the expenses needed for all their other "programs" (printing leaflets, etc), there would be more cash for constructive issues.


That's interesting- as is your division of the expenses (pro-choice funds, and I would assume therefore determines the content of sex education... pro-life funds the results when this education fails to produce good choices- i.e.,

I asked for constructive input. Do you want to make a recommendation, or just snipe at my plan? Since the anti-choice side is the one who wants women to have babies, it's only fitting that they take on more of the financial responsibilities of carrying, delivering, and raising them.

The conservative conundrum: do you spend your precious wealth to accomplish your morally superior goal?

abstinence- which is the only 100% solution for avoiding unwanted pregnancies or STDs out of marriage).

I wasn't a virgin when I got married, were you?

The debate surrounding abortion is best described as an "absolute conflict." That is, by definition there is no compromise that will appease both sides, because their views are in absolute opposition. A similar situation exists between Israel and its neighbors.

So we'll fight it out until one side is anhilated. That's better than compromise? The existing status quo is that the constitution protects the right of a woman to have an abortion. While the Supreme Court may overturn that, and later be overturned by a more reasonable, I mean a more liberal court;) , the anti-choice camp has much more to gain from my plan than the pro-choice camp does.

Pro-life supporters believe life begins at conception- meaning the baby has a right to life. Pro-choice supporters either believe that life does not begin until emergence from the womb- or they hold that life begins at some point in the womb, but the mother has a right to determine if the baby should live or not depending upon her own circumstances.

I know. The main difference is that anti-choice people want to force an absolute on the other side (NO ABORTIONS), whereas pro-choice people want to give the freedom which allows pregnant women to make their own decision (NOT MAKING ABORTIONS MANDATORY).

Thank you for your input. Some people believe the Sabbath is on Friday. Enough said.

So this is what you meant by a "civil" discussion of abortion?

Sorry. It's a little frustrating to post

Please provide constructive criticism of this plan, any ideas will be appreciated- please don't bother posting "it just won't work"

and get the "I don't believe in abortion" responses.

[Spexvet]

Mkay. If Planned Parenthood quit raking in the cash from performing so many abortions, they'd be in the same position as the anti abortion folks...and then both sides would be too broke to help. :hammer:

Ok, I belong to a few anti abortion organizations and we don't print leaflets so if that is all you think we do you are a bit misinformed-and as KOTW I expect better from you. We do save an occaisional baby and provide services for women that prefer other alternatives. We even have our own crisis pregnancy centers where you can see things like the stages of developement and get an ultrasound. There are adoption resources on site.

Now that you've got my back up shall we continue??

Do you want to suggest an alteration to my plan to the mighty KOTW? I'll listen, you know.

[karen]

Do you want to suggest an alteration to my plan to the mighty KOTW? I'll listen, you know.

Ok, I'll bend my brain today as I drive around and see what I can come up with.....

P.S- we're not anti-choice. We just want ladies to make a different one. Does that make you pro-murder? (Sorry I know that was not nice but jeez....anti-choice????)

[Karenrp1956]

The point is this, if we continue to abort our babies, both sides will be annhilated.

[chip anderson]

Just courious, but where in the U.S. Constitution does it make any reference to anyone's right to have an abortion? Don't tell me about Roe vs. Wade, show me something in the Constiution.

[Spexvet]

Ok, I'll bend my brain today as I drive around and see what I can come up with.....

P.S- we're not anti-choice. We just want ladies to make a different one. Does that make you pro-murder? (Sorry I know that was not nice but jeez....anti-choice????)

Then why do you want to remove a woman's abitlity to choose?

I am anti-abortion and pro-choice. Just because I don't want women to have an abortion doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that other people have a different opinion on the matter. As KOTW, my plan allows women the freedom to choose, but makes it easier for them to choose to carry full term and raise the child. Isn't that the same goal that you have? :cheers:

[Spexvet]

The point is this, if we continue to abort our babies, both sides will be annhilated.

Are you saying that 100% of pregnancies are terminated?

[Spexvet]

Just courious, but where in the U.S. Constitution does it make any reference to anyone's right to have an abortion? Don't tell me about Roe vs. Wade, show me something in the Constiution.

Roe V Wade settled that.

[Bill West]

The Sabbath was for the Jewish people under the law. Christ fullfilled the law and nailed it to the cross.
Sunday is The Lord's Day, not the Sabbath.

Col 2:14
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (KJV)


It must be understood of the ceremonial law, the hand-writing of ordinances, the ceremonial institutions or the law of commandments contained in ordinances <Eph. 2:15>, which was a yoke to the Jews and a partition-wall to the Gentiles. The Lord Jesus took it out of the way, nailed it to his cross; that is, disannulled the obligation of it, that all might see and be satisfied that it was no more binding. When the substance came, the shadows fled away. It is abolished <2 Cor. 3:13>, and that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away, <Heb. 8:13>. The expressions are in allusion to the ancient methods of cancelling a bond, either by crossing the writing or striking it through with a nail.

The Sabbath is actually sundown Friday til Sundown Saturday.
I have always been amazed at the powers that moved the Sabath to Sunday. The audacity of changing something that was written by the Hand of God!

Chip

And before you ask, I attend Church on Sunday and work most Saturdays.