2 +2 = 4
Night is dark and day is light.
Murder by any other name is MURDER.
Rev 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Here's my take. Your plan "sounds"great, but the problem is there's still no personaly responsiblity. I agreed with Karen, I do want women to make better choices from the beginning. You don't address the need for women to decide do I want to have a baby? Do I want a lovely std? Sex is incredible, yes, but it never should be casual, and never be impulsive. Too many consequences. Abortion on demand makes babies disposable. "It doesn't matter what I do, I can get rid of it or take a pill to make it go away" That is what abortion on demand does. I do believe that there are times abortion is acceptable. When a woman's right is taken away to make love(rape, incest). A woman has a right to chose what happens to her body, but when did that open the flood gates to irresponsible behavior?
Just my thoughts
christina
Same place it refers to anyone's right to drive a car.Originally Posted by chip anderson
Since we have gone to aborting babies because the mother's life was in danger to a woman's decision to end a pregnancy in the first tri-. to now doing parti-birth abortions the only thing left is to abort ourselves out of of the human race.
p.s. with the different ways of preventing abortions now available, the woman right to choice was made 9 months earlier.
How do you propose to reduce a teenager's desire to have sex?
Alcohol and drugs are illegal for teens, but teens still take them.
Reproduction is a biological imperitive - it is a very strong compulsion.
I think only parenting can keep a teen from having casual sex. Education and providing condoms will help reduce STDs and unwanted pregnancies.
Why? Simply because I think it's murder and I don't think you should get to choose whether you do that or not (and get away with it)
My goal is to make it easier for them to carry to full term obviously....I guess where most of my problem comes form is the way abortion is used as a form of birth control. How the fact that an 8 week old fetus has a heartbeat and that gets glossed over when you go to PP scared and uninformed. How there are lots of us who have had to come to terms with the fact that we have in fact murdered our children and regret every day the choice that we made. How we might have made a different one had we showed up at a crisis pregnancy center instead. I do not think abortion helps women. I understand how we are all worried about the government telling us what we can and cannot do with our bodies-I am worried about that. But the choice I made has had lasting consequences that I was not aware would be there when I made it. It is more than a simple choice.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
that says it all right there
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Ah so. The point emerges. It's not so much "anti-abortion", it's "anti-sex".
So you're against adoption, too? Interesting. Let's see, anti-sex, anti-adoption, anti-birth-control...let's call it by it's proper name, then. It's certainly not "pro-life". No, "forced childbirth" seems more like it.Too many consequences. Abortion on demand makes babies disposable. "It doesn't matter what I do, I can get rid of it or take a pill to make it go away"
ummmm, are you talking to me? I think I talked about adoption resources at those "anti-abortion" crisis preganacy centers us folks support in an earlier post.
OF COURSE I not talking about anti-sex. I am talking about being informed and not having sex if you can't take care of a baby-because babies are one of the results of sex. Is that too much to ask?
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Celebrating the sabbath on a Friday doesn't end a life. How can you compare the two?
Ooh, sloppy quoting on my part. The first part is addressed to you, the second part is not, at least not directly.
fjp, I think his point was that religious folk can't even agree which day is the sabbath, so how we can unequivocally say that religion stands for or against anything else? I'm not arguing in favor of the opinion, just clarifying the point, and plus, given that Bill "A Bible quote for every occasion" West seems to have found the answer, it's irrelevant at this point.
Moralize political issues and
Politicize moral issues.
Rep
," Rep said, to no one in particular. The conversation continued apace, non sequiturs ignored as they should be.
NO! Pro-protection! Pro-commond sense, anit-selfishness. Pro-thinking of someone else besides yourself. Abortion is not easy, infact the liberal good doers would say it was cruel and unusal punishment if the infant was a grown person in prison on death role, fact, the way we put people to death in this country is more sane than abortion
Karen:
This is the great problem with Liberals (although I am supprised to find one of your magnitude in Texas.) You can't equate the difference in the murder of an innocent unborn baby and a guilty adult.! Even if the adult is, God forbid, falsely accused, his "murder" is much less of a crime than the murder of an unborn child.
Chip
You got me there, Chip; I can't figure out how to "equate" a "difference" at all.
But if you're saying that there is no way to equate the taking of the life of an unborn child with the taking of the life of an adult, that's obviously quite wrong, as it's easy to do so: both can be correctly characterized as the willful termination of the life of a living human organism.
Of course, the two acts can be distinguished as well, in many ways.
With regard to innocence and guilt, this is something that you are not qualified to speak of in absolute terms (no matter how large a font you use). You may believe that an embryo or fetus is innocent, but your belief is hardly dispositive. What if Hindus and Buddhists are right in their beliefs? Some of the unborn might be guilty as hell; who are you to decide? On the other hand, we know that we've executed innocent convicts - at least, innocent of the crimes for which they were executed.
It strikes me as odd that you can quote some of the best advice to be found in the Bible (see, "judge not" above), and yet fail to understand its import so completely. Well, maybe not so odd.
Shane:
Can you discern the difference between killing and murder?
Chip
Ummm.... So you're not anti-choice, but you believe the choices should be
A don't have sex
B carry full term
Mine, too.
Can you supply any evidence of this? I hear the anti-choice crowd say this enough, but where is the evidence? How many women have multiple abortions?
So maybe eliminating the fear and stigma associated with unwed teen pregnancies would reduce the number of abortions. Oh, wait, it's the same folks who want to ban abortion that kick their pregnant daughters out of their house. There's another cunundrum for ya!
Taking away the legal option for abortion won't stop them. I believe my plan will reduce abortions.
But some people do, and they want the option.
My plan keeps choice legal, and makes it easier to carry full term.
Yes, as I have explained to you numerous times in the past to no apparent effect, "murder" is the unlawful, willful taking of a life.
Since you can't absorb that colloquial definition, I doubt that the more technically correct definition will help either, but here it is anyway: "the unlawful killing of another with malice aforethought." The term "malice aforethought" is also a term of art which refers to the requisite mens rea (the "guilty mind", one of the two elements required for a crime, the other being the actus reus, "guilty act"). "Malice aforethought" includes any of the following: (1) the intent to kill, (2) the intent to inflict grievous bodily harm, (3) extremely reckless indifference to the value of human life, or (4) the intent to commit a dangerous felony.
I know you are deeply attached to the notion that the Decalogue prohibits "murder" and not "killing", but whatever the precise meaning of the ancient Hebrew word ratsach, it is certainly not the same as the modern-day meaning of the English word "murder". The ancient word may imply a killing in anger, or lying in wait with intent to kill.
Note, if you can, that a lawful killing cannot be "murder".
Anything else I can define for you?
Ok, you got me. I would like abortion to not be a choice. As I have stated my personal opinion is that it is murder-willful premeditated murder. I think that choice can cover other things besides abortion. Like adoption, abstinence or proper use of birth control. Yes I know how hard it is as a teenager or even an adult to not have sex. Is it unrealistic to ask kids to wait? Probably. I have a 13 year old that is already struggling with the idea of waiting until marriage. In the same way that you like to think about your KOTW scenario I like to think of what it could be like if more people recognized conception as the beginning of life and based on that belief chose to not have an abortion. I know if it is illegal it will still happen and if it has to I would prefer it be in a medically supervised situation.
Listen, as much as I would like to not see it happen ever I am realistic and know that in our lifetimes it is likely to continue in the fashion it has for quite some time. I will once again restate there are many of us who exercised our rights and wish that we hadn't. It would be nice to not have so much regret and shame when you don't have to. Again-it is not a simple choice.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
How about bringing up something that's legal, as abortion is...
They're both part of a personal belief system, not facts.
Slavery was once legal here. Compromises were attempted, but ultimately it was made illegal nationwide.
And as King of the World, you'd also have jurisdiction over countries where other unsavory acts are, if not OK'd by the letter of the law, at least given a wink and a nod by the powers that be.
The point is, I was talking about morality - not legality.
Last edited by Blake; 03-24-2006 at 05:59 PM.
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear brighter before you hear them speak.
Shanebaum: I know you think you are dealing with a mindless undeducated redneck. But the fact that something is "lawful under the laws of men" does not make it a correct act. Nor does the Supreme Court saying something is constitutal put it in The Constitution.
Never would the founding fathers have put either a right to abortion, or a right to emminet domain for the purposes of raising tax revenue in the Consitution. Neither would the present Congress, a past Congress or any forseeable future Congress attempt to pass such a Constiutional Amendment. If the populace were allowed to vote on either issue the present status would be reversed overnight and even you know this to be the case.
Don't expect you can accept this as I have no degree, don't have a beard or smoke a pipe. But it's my opinion and I suspect the opinion of most of the citizens of this country even after a few glases of wine.
Chip
Another example of not knowing the facts, Chip.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031200388.htmlABORTION SUPPORT: Some 19 percent of those surveyed said abortion should be legal in all cases. But the number grows to 52 percent who think abortion should be legal in most cases. Also, 43 percent say abortion should be illegal most or all the time. Two-thirds of Democrats say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while two-thirds of Republicans say that abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. Two-thirds of white evangelicals say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, while 54 percent of Protestants felt that way. Half of Catholics said abortion should be legal in all or most cases.
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