I'm curious about whether full time wear is usually needed for people to adjust successfully to PALs when they get them for the first time? Do many people manage this with part time wear only, and do you normally recommend that people wear PALs full time even if their distance prescription is fairly small/they didn't wear glasses/didn't wear them full time before?
Isabella
generally you need to wear them full time for a few weeks to get used to them. After that, part time wear is generally OK
Good luck
A spade is a spade
As long as we are supposed to be "educateing" and dispensers of truth: I takes that long for the patient to adapt to the distortions inherent in PALs sometimes.
Chip
Last edited by chip anderson; 03-08-2006 at 07:55 AM. Reason: Spacing.
I recommend that new wearers wear them as much as possible until they are comfortable with them. This amount varies a lot. Some people adjust right away and some take a month.
I was comfortable with my first progressives right away. I put them on and had no problems wearing them, though looking at the floor took a day or two.
Inherent........................
Having been around PAL's for 38 years, sold them successfully in the retail, surfacing thousands of them when I had my surfacing operation, I still get bothered by the distortive parts on the lenses.Originally Posted by chip anderson
So when working on my large desk I still prefer my ST35mm for office work mounted in a fairly large frame.
However if I want to look like all the other in-crowd at a party I will wear my PALs mounted in a small frame..........get compliments for looking better than my normal way.............but do see the distortion until the third scotch has been consumed, when it slowly disapears.
So that solves it!!! when dispensing PALS to us consumers--throw in a bottle of scotch with the deal!! then we won't care if PD's, seg hts, etc are off!! :D
Chris, you notice the distortion. Many if not most progressive wearers don't. I honestly don't notice any distortion in my Physio lenses. If I make a point to look at something through the bottom corners of my lenses, yes it is there. But I have to look for it.
I have had other progressives that the distortion was more noticable.
I think some people just are more sensitive to it. I am lucky that I am not.
Distortion.........................
Happylady............I have been wayching your post's for tha last few month and I have made the following observation:
Your are singing the glory halelluja for Essilor progressives every day in and out. I started to suspect that you must be on their payroll to sing the loudest and clearest soprano to their latest PAL inventions. One week you get the latest lenses you just love and the following your husband gets an even better pair.
You never have seen the slightest problem with those lenses, and they are just wonderful all over.
Have you not learned that these lenses have a 60% of the lens surface area that is not usable, because it is full of distortion ? The manufacturers specialists do call this common distortion now, "surface astigmatism" but whatever you call it it is still distortion. :bbg: :D :bbg:
Chris, my husband got his first!
I have worn many different progressives, some I liked a lot, some I didn't care for. I do like the Physio, but I have also liked the Panamic, the Sola One, and the Hoya Wide. I am certainly not on Essilor's payroll.
You just seem to have a problem with the fact that others do not have the problems you have with progressives.
I know some people don't like progressives. I agree with you they aren't for everyone. But I have talked to many patients that actually have worn both progressives and flat tops and hey, they like the progressives better!
Just because you find the distortion in your progressives bothersome doesn't mean everyone does.
And I wasn't putting you down before, I just was pointing out your experience is just your experience. If you felt I was being critical of you I am sorry, that was not what I intended.
I stand by what I said, I don't notice it unless I look for it. And I also think many/most progressive lens wearers don't notice distortion most of the time.
Last edited by Happylady; 03-08-2006 at 08:52 PM.
Chris, I've been watching your posts for the last few months and I've made the following observations:
You are maligning progressives, and particularly Essilor progressives day in and day out. I am starting to believe you must be on the payroll of one of their competitors, since your complaints certainly seem to have an ulterior motive. As soon as someone gets a new set of lenses that they see well out of, you explain to them that there's no way they could, because a FT35 is clearly a superior lens.
You always seem to have a problem with any progressive, and there are absolutely no positives whatsoever.
Have you not learned about the latest advances in PAL designs? Most PAL wearers use only a small portion of the lens, and so the manufacturers are getting ever more precise in placing the necessary distortion that makes the lens a PAL into areas most wearers will never use. :bbg: :D :bbg:
god love you spartus........that was a classic
I have to say somethig here. I like PALs although I don't wear them, yet. I think that the current designs are good for normal, everyday use. (Just to keep the theme of this thread alive) However, I agree with Chris in that "Happy" has to be on Essilor's payroll. Essilor makes some decent products, but they are far from best. I find it interesting that "happy" says in one post that she takes her Physios off to read for any amount of time. That makes it the most expensive single vision lens sold. They are great for distance, but reading is not as wide as Sola One. Essilor deserves to get beat up. In most PALs I dispense the distance is not the issue; the main difficulty is in people wanting to use one set of lenses for everything. I don't believe that even SV wearers should have one pair of "all-purpose" glasses. If your only goal is to see, then sure. If you want all your needs taken care of properly, then we're talking 2-3 pair in almost every case. I don't think that FTs are the answer for PAL problems. Bad opticianry is the problem, education is the solution. As long as people bow down to Essilor, the problems will continue. Learn what's available, sell according to your patient's needs, do your job correctly, and realise that there are alternatives- better ones.
Chris, continue to "beat up" on Essilor... I got your back. (whoever you are)
What about adapting differences due to add power, I find almost everyone is happy from a 1.00 to a 2.00 add, after that there is more distortions. I recently change from 2.25 to 2.75 and noticed the difference, still like em though.
Rich R.
Yes, I do take any progressive off if I am JUST reading. My right eye is a -2.00-50 and my left eye is -2.50. It isn't hard to figure out that no lens is going to be better then my natural eyes.I have to say somethig here. I like PALs although I don't wear them, yet. I think that the current designs are good for normal, everyday use. (Just to keep the theme of this thread alive) However, I agree with Chris in that "Happy" has to be on Essilor's payroll. Essilor makes some decent products, but they are far from best. I find it interesting that "happy" says in one post that she takes her Physios off to read for any amount of time. That makes it the most expensive single vision lens sold. They are great for distance, but reading is not as wide as Sola One. Essilor deserves to get beat up. In most PALs I dispense the distance is not the issue; the main difficulty is in people wanting to use one set of lenses for everything. I don't believe that even SV wearers should have one pair of "all-purpose" glasses. If your only goal is to see, then sure. If you want all your needs taken care of properly, then we're talking 2-3 pair in almost every case. I don't think that FTs are the answer for PAL problems. Bad opticianry is the problem, education is the solution. As long as people bow down to Essilor, the problems will continue. Learn what's available, sell according to your patient's needs, do your job correctly, and realise that there are alternatives- better ones.
Chris, continue to "beat up" on Essilor... I got your back. (whoever you are)
I like to read in bed at night and yes I do it without glasses. Also when I read the paper in the morning I sometimes remove them. The rest of the time I read with glasses on, it is much easier then taking them on and off. I do use the close vision part of progressives and I wouldn't be happy with single vision lenses.
If I was really on Essilor's payroll would I say that my husband says the reading area is wider in his Sola Ones? I think the reading area of the Physio is good, but not outstanding. The distance IS outstanding and the intermediate is also very good. That is just what I feel. I was trying to be helpful to others because it is a new lens and I think people like to know about peoples personal experiences with it.
I always find it helpful to read what other people think of various lenses. Of course people are going to have different opinions but I like to read that this lens works well for that and that person hated this other lens because of this.
Happy...
I figured your reading cancelled your distance needs. The point is, that you clearly state in various posts that the physio is the greatest thing ever, then say that the reading isn't as wide as other lenses. My point is that Essilor is selling a lens with a suggested retail of $500, and you AND OTHERS say that there are problems. Sell 'em all you want. Buy stock in the company if you want. Name your cat Physio. It's all good... but be consistent. Clearly some experiences will be better than others. I'm glad you like your new distance lenses. I just thought the purpose in a PAL was to have good reading. If I was a consumer, for $500 I better be able to read with my eyes closed and see behind my back without turning my head. As I said before- Essilor has done a great job building their empire, like others, on the backs of innocent, well-meaning, naive people. I'm not one of 'em. (All of this is said in good humour on my part- hope you take it this way.):D
Sorry to appear to "hi-jack" this post, but "Happy" doesn't allow PMs or email. (BTW Happy... you remind me of someone I know. Texas, huh...?):idea:
Where did I ever say the Physio is the greatest progressive ever? I said it was as good as any progressive I have ever tried and I stand by that. It is. I also said the reading area is good. Are there progressives out there with better reading, probably. I think the the purpose of progressives is to give great all all around vision, not just close vision. I haven't had a single redo with this lens so far. I am sure I will in time.
I have compared my Physios to my Sola Ones in the reading and I honestly can't see any difference but my husband thinks the reading is wider in the Sola One so I reported that.
I sell the Physio poly for MUCH less then $500.00.
This is not the only progressive I sell. I use many progressives depending on the patient's needs, pocketbook, and previous wear.
I am interested in what progressives you use and like.
Last edited by Happylady; 03-14-2006 at 02:31 PM.
We DO NOT post prices on this board anywhere.
Sorry, I thought we just couldn't post what we pay for stuff, not what we sell it for.
I have worn progressives for several years and the only complaint I've had with distortion is those first few days to acclimate. After that I don't even realize I'm wearing progressives. In fact now it's all so natural that I rarely even notice the difference between my close-up and distance. It's just there. And it works for me. I am going to try my very best to have a positive attitude about my glasses after they're made in the much shorter frames I chose. I hope they will suffice for my everyday needs and not just for "partying to look like the in-crowd".
This is exactly what my optician explained to me. He did this with a large lens that had little markings on it. He also told me my current larger progressive lenses are not being fully utilized anyway.
It is just the way you "talk" about the lens that makes some think you believe it to be the greatest. (Again- this is just playful banter on my part, so don't take it too seriously) If you like it, you like it. I just don't like the Empire; I'm building a rebel army to fight them if anyone's interested.
I sell: Precise, Image, NATURAL, OVATION, Technica, Navigator and some "no-name" PALs that work really well (no particular order). Notice, I do sell some of the Empire's product. I try to fit lenses according to needs. I do not, will not sell the Empire's coating. I sell something better to about 97% of my clients and have only had 1 redo in 18 months- the guy works with chemicals daily. That's another thread, though.
I like the Image and the Precise (and the Technica for office use). I have only had 4 non-adapts in the past year: 1 was an executive wearer who wanted to "try it" (didn't work), 1 was a man who tried it to get his wife off his case (he said he knows it would work, but he wanted his FT35s back-to show his wife my guess), 1 was a lady who needed more intermediate width than the lens we fit, so we redid it, the last we just did- she said she's just not "ready" for bifocals.
I only say all this to say that I haven't had a single person ask for more expensive lenses. Almost all are satisfied with what we fit- they trust us. I believe in presenting my staff as experts. We practice Opticianry. We manufacture, fit, and adjust eyewear.
Interestly, the previous lenses in the my husbands glasses were Precise. They were the same prescription as his Physios and fit the same. I actually switched the Precise and Physio lenses back and forth a couple of times and he liked the Physios MUCH better.
I have fit all those lenses you listed though it has been some time since I used the Navigator. I think they are okay but certainly not anything great. The Ovation is what Costco sells, it's all right but do I really want to sell the same lens as them? I want to sell a better lens.
The Natural I think of a low end Comfort with a slightly lower channel.
Precise is again okay but there are better lenses.
I know lots of people like the Image but I won a free pair a couple of years ago and they weren't anything special, they seemed swimmy.
If you really dislike Essilor why are you selling their lenses at all? There are plenty of other choices.
Happylady recommended the Sola one to me, so if she works for Essilor she is very bad at her job. :)
Looking at frames somewhere today the gentleman there totally trashed Essilor and the varilux lens and said they were the first but far from the best.
He went much further but I will stop there.
Then he went on to trash lens crafters for quite some time. lol.
The strange part was when he found I was a +1.00 with 150 add which is the same as he was. He told me I should do what he does and wear readers. I already do.
I guess he didn't want my business or was so concerned I might go with an Essilor product or to lens crafters he steered me to readers??
He buys his readers at the same discount store I get mine at. Ha.
If you guys are seeing distortion tomorrow it's probably all the green beer!
1. Just because a particular company sells something is no reason to not sell it. That kind of attitude is what Varilux wants you to have; interestingly enough, the chains now have 60% of the business and independents 40%. FYI: it used to be the opposite. Obviously the chains are doing something right, at the cost of the independent.
2. The Natural, Precise, Image, Ovation, and even the Navigator are all good for different people, different situations.
3. According to Dr. Jim Sheedy and the studies done in conjuction with others, the Image is technically the second best lens for multi-purpose wear. (Second only to Shamir Genesis with Essilor/Varilux DOWN the list)
4. I don't like Essilor as a company, what they are doing to this industry, the way they bully independents, the way they dupe naive people into selling for them. However, for the 3-4 patients last year that really would be better off in one of those two lenses, I'm not too proud to use them. I just won't be bought by them the way too many already are. I also will not be bullied into cowaring down to whatever they say.
5. There are a lot of other choices. I use what works. If fit correctly, made correctly, adjusted correctly, and the wearer is trained correctly, most lenses will work. Just ask your Essilor rep- off the record. Any honest person who really knows lenses will tell you. (Mine did 2 days ago, right after I told 'em their products were OK, but certainly not absolute best. The response was "...most current PALs are good, and will work if fit properly, that's true." My point is, and has been, that Essilor fits a place in the market; Essilor is not the market. Essilor fills a need. Essilor is not the need.
Is it difficult to get a decent AR on some of these other lenses?
I'm assuming you have to go with an essilor lens to get Crizal Alize.
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