How many out there have been recently inendated with Nikon reps, mail outs and otherwise? If so have you tried their products, What do you think of them?
How many out there have been recently inendated with Nikon reps, mail outs and otherwise? If so have you tried their products, What do you think of them?
Make a very good camera.
Actually, in Canada Nikon is a very well respected lens and has increased its market share.Originally Posted by chip anderson
Thank you for the thread and is proof that some Canadian products are unique to other nations products (since the US cannot get the same Nikon products as Canada).
Nikon has a cult following in Canada, but I do not see its products as being superior to anyone else, even though Nikon tells you it is lights years ahead. Also, I have had too many problems with the ICE coating being too hard to clean after six months.
I don't see why any one needs Nikon. The Hak sells them cheap.
Not necessary. They are selling the W with a huge price tag.
Nikon...........
Another Essilor owned and controlled company..........................n
I love going up to stores who tell everyone how great Nikon is and how the HCC is better than Crizal. I then tell them that Essilor owns Nikon and that in the US Crizal is used on Nikon products.
I have heard this as well, gotta wonder how much cheaper the hak gets it than you?
I spoke with an Essilor rep recently who told me that this is a bit of a fallacy in Canada. Something about Essilor and Nikon growing too quickly in Canada which would make a merger a nightmare. So here, they're still considered competitors.
This apparently explains the problems with the Ice coating. Since Alize and Ice are then direct competitors, Nikon can't use the vacuum process for their coating. Ice is dip coated, which in turn wears off after a few months, and becomes simply HCC.
Of course, take this with a grain of salt. As good a person as this rep is, it came from a biased source.
although the nikon essilor conspiracy makes interesting discussion...why do essilor reps speak so negatively of Nikon?, both companies are separate legal entities with NO relationship in Canada... The facts on coatings are not correct, ask your Nikon rep, they have the facts, the molecular bonding with the lens is chemical not mechanical the process is irrelevant. Hakim ("Hak") is actually priced higher than MOST retail/offices...the 50% off, free offers etc. do not include Nikon, thus Hakim's selling strategy...high/Low, if you want low end...you don't get Nikon, you get a non-branded lens suppliers products. A Lexus is still a car, but only when you point out the added features and differences and they demo it...can you get 2 times the money for it! Are you a seller or an order taker?
Hak has sold his 3 coating labs to Essilor and is out of that business. Therfore they now buy and do not make anymore.hak................
I asked my Nikon rep. He brushed it off without answering the question and basically confirmed that the coatings do wear off.
I have also asked my customers who have come in and complained about the Nikon being easy at first but hard now. When I put these people into Alize they have not had the same problem.
that is the first time I have ever heard of that...patchy coatings or crazing can happen...the nikon rep probably never heard of it either....very rare...did you remind the customer that they can get Alize much cheaper at WalMart or Costco?
Alize at Walmart is not much cheaper. It is actually the same price as we charge and we make a fair profit off of it.
Now the issue that Wal-Mart sells Alize is a good and fair one, but in my defense it mainly sells trio EC, and I also only really deal with Essilor due to my lab.
As for those Nikon lenses they were not crazed. The oliphobic coating came off and I know other stores this has happened with. I sugges to you get a pair of lenses with the same material and one having alize and one having HCC ICE. Every morning clean both lenses with the right one first. Then every night do it with the left lens first. After a year evaluate the ease of clean. I think you will see quite a difference.
Not good enough................
For Life..................This is not very scientific.
How do you clean.................with the toothbrush using tooth paste or shaving cream ?
How do you evaluate the ease of clean ? What is the procedure ?
:D
well they are in the same frame so the lenses are both treated exactly the same.
They were treated before they went into the frame, so it is not guarantedd that they were. I would call this testing after the fact, which means the lenses were handled by quite a few persons before they made it into the frame.
I am just picky......not critisizing.....but when testing you have to be sure.
Amazing
The truly amazing thing in this discussion is that it is well known in the industry that the dip coating application of an oleophobic coating (the Nikon process) is a far superior coating to the in chamber application (the Essilor process). The in chamber coating is actually a way to cut costs, and increase profitability for the manufacturer. However, it also reduces the life of the coating. Hopefully this will help in making a more informed assessment of the different coatings available.
?
How can it reduce the life of the coating if the in chamber coating lasts longer than the dip coating?
How is this more superior?
Hey Ken why dont you tell everyone who you work for?????????:finger:
I'm confused as well.
adadi, can you clarify your statement? (And I'd like to know which manufacturer you work for.)
\
I have a feeling you guy's are all a little mixed up. An in chamber coating means a coating that has been applied under vacuum. That would be the AR coating.
But before appliying the AR coating you need a coating that adheres to the lens on one side and on the other side the AR coating will adhere to it. This wrongly is called a hard coat, which it is not, it is the adhesion media and has nothing to do with scratch protection.
This hard coat is applied with a coating machine which can be a dip coat or a spincoat machine. What makes the difference for proper adhesion of the AR coating is the coating material that is applied. :D
NO Mix-UP Here
Actually I am an engineer and have spent the last 20 years involved in testing coatings for the ophthalmic industry. And there is really no confusion here. Although there may be instances that a dip application may be worse than an in-chamber application, this will have more to do with day to day production issues than it would with the actual process. For example, a step is missed by an operator (and as we all know, this does happen to all manufacturers from time to time). However the dip process vs the in-chamber process is a no contest if both are applied correctly. The dip coating will win every time.
It is similar to the hydrophobic coatings on the original HCC and Alize products. Nikon applied it by a dipping process when it originally launched the product. This process required a final curing process which actually chemically bonded the hydrophobic coating to the AR coating. There is no doubt that this process was far superior to the in-chamber process which Essilor used with their Alize coating when it was first launched. Chemical bonding cannot take place in the chamber, only mechanical bonding takes place in the chamber. Of course Nikon moved to the in-chamber process as well eventually in order to stay competitive with Essilor.
It is truly amazing to read some of the stuff that people try to pass as truisms in this thread. Shame, shame...
So the curing process, not the dip ALONE, is better than the in chamber process.
And again, do not get on me for trying to pass something as untrue.
Fact: I have had people in the ICE coating (it was available before the Alize).
Fact: They have complained that after a few months it was hard to clean.
Fact: I have switched them to Alize.
Fact: They have all had Alize longer than they had ICE and still say that it is much easier to clean.
I have said it before and will say it again, if I am being brainwashed by anyone it is by the customer.
This is our livelyhoods and what we do. We find solutions for clients and solve problems.
Last edited by For-Life; 03-06-2006 at 09:05 AM.
Maybe you should explain what is in chamber coating and what is outside of chamber coating.
However the dip process vs the in-chamber process is a no contest if both are applied correctly. The dip coating will win every time.
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