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Thread: How do they do that?

  1. #1
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    How do they do that?

    I saw a commercial for 2 for $99 including "no line bifocals" at Sears the other day and it blew my mind. How do they make any money on that? Is it bait and switch? Anybody familiar with this particular system? Something just doesn't seem quite right.
    Last edited by SpecialT; 01-11-2006 at 03:47 PM.

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    Well, we can't talk about wholesale prices in here, but lets just say that in can be done, you can still make a profit this way. Not much but still a profit. And then you could potentially make it up in volume.

  3. #3
    C-10
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    High Abbe is right you can purchase low end progressive for next to noting and there are all kind of frame out there that are purchase very expensely but them they add on hardcote and refection free and by the way we can sell you a warrenty etc.

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    Bad address email on file QDO1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialT
    I saw a commercial for 2 for $99 including "no line bifocals" at Sears the other day and it blew my mind. How do they make any money on that? Is is bait and switch? Anybody familiar with this particular system? Something just doesn't seem quite right.
    buy buying the product for such a low price (high margin) you wouldnt believe it, by using a member of staff who is on minimum wage. I bet they make more gross profit on this (as a %)...that is both pairs... than most of us could achieve on one pair. i bet the difference in gross profit % is more than 20% than an independant could achieve on 1 pair

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    Master OptiBoarder chm2023's Avatar
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    All of the above but quite a few, I'm guessing most, folks are sold up. Just like any other retail business.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialT
    I saw a commercial for 2 for $99 including "no line bifocals" at Sears the other day and it blew my mind. How do they make any money on that? Is is bait and switch? Anybody familiar with this particular system? Something just doesn't seem quite right.
    The bait here is "no line bifocal" It's almost certainly not a progressive. The switch is pressuring the patient to upgrade the lenses, frame, coating...

  7. #7
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    I have seen many places that advertize very low prices as $45.88 for eye exam and glasses. Then average patient drops $458.00. Called bait and switch. You "educate" the patient that he needs frame upgrade, lens upgrade, lots bells whistles and coatings, tints, etc.

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    Chip's right....I get those patients all the time that want their rx so that they can go to Sears and get their 2 for 99 special and then they end up right back in my office to get their glasses because once they walked into one of those places like Sears and picked their frame out and was told what lenses to buy, the 99 turned into over 400.00. So, they come back to me and say well if I'm going to spend that kind of money I want someone who knows what their doing. Go figure.

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    I figured

    I figured that their was alot of bait and switch going on. Rule #1 to all chain retail is to beat last years figures, and I just can't see how two progressives for $99 could achieve that even with high volume. Worst part of all of this is when a customer walks into your office and says "but at Sears they can make 2 of them no liners for $99". I hate having to justify prices, and this makes the problem even worse.

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    I always want to say "they have to sell you 2 for 99.00 so you won't come back mad at them when the 1st pair breaks in a week".

  11. #11
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    2 Pair for $99 ? Sounds good to me. While the chains are swamped selling what we would call junk, I'll take my 10 customers a day that want quality.

    :hammer:

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    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    People think that's a great deal. I ask them what they would think if they saw an ad for two brand new automobiles for $7,000. This simple question usually opens their eyes.:hammer:
    ...Just ask me...

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    Wink This is interesting. . .

    We say that there is very little difference between progressives and that any progressive fit well should work. As a discounter we offer a progressive package at $98.95 frame and lens complete. In the 3 years we've been in business we have had only 2 people puke. One was a true non adapt the other was bad measuring by a new Optician. We offer, but don't push the extras and our patients are very loyal and in our ongoing survey 37% find us through word of mouth referals. Our patients are primarily senoirs on fixed incomes and what I call the working poor. That is people making under $40K a year with no vision benefits.

    All of us wear the lens we sell in one form or another. It is not the Varilux Panamic or the Zeiss Gradal, but it works and its worked well for us. Our patients seem to appreciate the fact that we offer the extras without being pushy about it. They have rewarded us with their business and with the business of their friends and family.

    We do see more people than alot of places I've worked. We don't make a ton of money per sale, but our margins are decent and we've done well enough to be able to open a 2nd location.

    I've worked the high end boutiques and they were as number driven as any other place and I just don't like rich people. If you go out of your way for working class people they appreciate it. Rich people seem to think its their due.

    If I had the buying power of Sears I could produce 2 good pair of glasses for $99.00 progressives included. I'm not sure why this is such a mystery. Please, just because we're discounters, don't assume that we're ignorant or producing substandard product. Some are, some aren't just like high end places. Money doesn't automatically mean better.

    I hope you're all having fun and making money!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Framebender
    Please, just because we're discounters, don't assume that we're ignorant or producing substandard product. Some are, some aren't just like high end places.
    The main problem I see with this is tendancies. I see a tendancy for discounters to fabricate poorly made spectacles. I see a tendancy for non-discount stores to provide better services and materials. If I could discern which discounters were producing good stuff, I might even recommend people their direction. Unfortunately, I am so worried that they are going to get the run around on a crapy pair of glasses that I can't even consider the option of referring to a discount store.

    Keep up the good work though! I am sure you are doing the right thing Framebender.

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    Redhot Jumper Don't kidd yourself..............................

    Specsavers in Europe supply their stores progressive lenses at a price you could make a good profit selling at mentioned sales price.

    The chinese have come out with progressive lenses and lens blanks that cost a fraction of the prices charged on this continent and you can have them anytime.

    Dont forget the world is changing and glasses will become less expensive. It is a race now between the big corporations and suppliers in the far east which get better and better in quality and ideas by the minute.

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    We all talk about what lens is the best, and which one is aspheric......but to be honest I fit most people in the Adaptar. And I don't many issues at all. The key is fitting it correctly. My point is that I could sell two pair of glasses with progressive lenses and still make a profit, and I'm a small operation. I'm not saying that I would, only that I could.

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    Staff cost

    Quote Originally Posted by High_Abbe
    The key is fitting it correctly.
    I understand, but for good quality fitters, you will need to pay more which eats into profits. Depending on employment trends in your area, this would definately be a factor if your highest consistant seller (progressives) are only 2 for $99. High volume may make up for it which Big Box is great at, but Big Box isn't usually good at hiring informed and well trained personel. The only solution to keeping the industry profitable with this mentality seems to be bait and switch or only 100% Big Box optometry. Either option is not good for consumers.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Framebender
    We say that there is very little difference between progressives and that any progressive fit well should work.

    If this is your philosphy, I sure hope you don't waste your time by offering more than one choice for a progressive. In fact, you really should be offering only 3 frames as well: 1 man's, 1 woman's, and 1 child's. They will adequately work if the are correctly fit. Lens material ? CR-39 is adequate for all prescriptions.
    It's the "adaquate" opticals that keep OUR sales numbers climbing.

    Keep having fun...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialT
    I understand, but for good quality fitters, you will need to pay more which eats into profits.
    This may not be popular, but what do pay and quality of work have to do with each other. Fitting PAL's is not a science it can be taughtm, and taught well. As an optician, I would love if we all commanded high salaries, but that is rarley the case. Even a low paid "chain" trained opticiancan care about their work and learn to fit well.

  20. #20
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    Maybe not ROCKET science, but it is a science

    Quote Originally Posted by ecsoptical
    This may not be popular, but what do pay and quality of work have to do with each other. Fitting PAL's is not a science it can be taughtm, and taught well.
    Then why is it being done wrong, over and over and over. I have in the past blasted optometry for poor training, it is definately a problem. Also, I wish opticians like yourself were the ones doing the fitting but most of the time it is just a minimum wage associate looking for a commission. Lastly, opticians do get paid more, which is part of my original point about eating into profits.

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    I know alot of chains pay only .50$ for a certification, some none. My point is pay doesn't means quality. I want to do a good job because I care about the job I'm doing. I take certification tests only to get a raise. I would learn the material in order to do my job better. I know of opticians with years of experience and training that suck at they job. I know people that are paid poorly that are great because they care enough to learn. That is not an optician problem, that is a society problem that all fields are having a problems with. Managers should hire better. And I know that is a large challange.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecsoptical
    I know alot of chains pay only .50$ for a certification, some none. My point is pay doesn't means quality. I want to do a good job because I care about the job I'm doing. I take certification tests only to get a raise. I would learn the material in order to do my job better. I know of opticians with years of experience and training that suck at they job. I know people that are paid poorly that are great because they care enough to learn. That is not an optician problem, that is a society problem that all fields are having a problems with. Managers should hire better. And I know that is a large challange.
    Well said Don't forget we are talking about sears here. The 2 pairs of pals for $99. is a lost leader they want you in there store. Beside if they make $1.00 per sale and 10,000 sale in all thier store they made a good profit.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-10
    Well said Don't forget we are talking about sears here. The 2 pairs of pals for $99. is a lost leader they want you in there store. Beside if they make $1.00 per sale and 10,000 sale in all thier store they made a good profit.


    The overhead in my store is over 10,000 a month in salaries alone.

  24. #24
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    Thumbs up I am blessed. . .

    to have found Opticians that care. My Dad was a military Optician that processed out in 1962 and opened a small shop in Bakersfield of all places. I made my first pair of glasses the summer of 1963 and I was hooked. For 40 plus years I've never wanted to do anything else. I found Heather at Sears. 20 years with Cole. She got her ABO and maintained it even though Cole didn't pay her any extra. Scared off during the buyout. I've got 2 semi retired 30 year Opticians that are mostly just looking to keep their hand in. The lab rat is the baby, he's only been doing this for 15 years.

    I'm not sure that I pay them anymore than they could make somewhere else. I do try to make it fun for them though and I allow them the freedom to do the best job that they can possibly do. We close the shop for 3 & 4 day weelkends as much as we can. We close the shop for continuing education and for the week of Expo West. The company pays for all of us to go. We all have very similar outlooks about our profession and we watch out for each other like family. I've only lost 1 Optician in 3 years over money and she was a kid with only 6 years in the business.

    My Dad told me that if you treat people like family you'll develop a loyal patient base and I've found that to be true. We do actually get referals from some of the higher end opticals in our area. All of us have run into that really nice person that doesn't have insurance, that just lost their job, that for one reason or another money really is an issue. We not only try to take care of them, but we treat them with respect. That's the biggest complaint we hear about other opticals both independant and chain. "They were really nice to me right up until I told them I couldn't afford it. Then they treated me like I had some kind of disease." Fixed income and low income is not a disease. My favorite Aunt spent the last years of her life on fixed income. I worked wholesale in the early 70's if that doesn't qualify as low income nothing does.

    The fact remains these people deserve decent eyewear at a reasonable price. We love our old ladies that bring us baked goods and our old men that bring us their dirty jokes. We encourage our single Mothers and our starving students. You know the few who have made it still shop with us. One of our students now works for IBM and another works for Martin. Both have VSP now, but they bought their drill mounts from us and submitted to insurance on their own. Will they always, maybe not, but it sure made us feel good.

    We use 5 different labs and 3 different stock houses to keep our prices down. Money is an issue for us as well. For those of you who choose to serve a different patient base, God bless you. I'm happy with my choice.

    I hope you're all having fun and making money!!

  25. #25
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    Good for you Framebender!

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