Should Tookie Assume Room Temperature

**rbaker** · 12-10-2005, 11:21 AM

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is currently debating the fate of Stanley "Tookie" Williams. My own thoughts are that he commute Tookies death sentence but insure that he remains incarcerated until he dies a natural death. What think thee?

**Chairtime** · 12-10-2005, 11:44 AM

don't like death penalty - keep gangster in prison

**karen** · 12-10-2005, 04:31 PM

Well, I am pretty sure I will be "the cheese stands alone" on this one but I think he should be executed. I think all the years of appeals have had the chance to turn up any new info that might mean he was wrongly convicted and I think us here in California kept the death penalty around for a reason. If he is as redeemed as he says he is (although if he didn't do it, what would he need to be redeemed from?) than he gets forgiven by God and I am pretty sure heaven is a better place than San Quentin. I'm sure the food is better anyway ;)

I am prepared for some of you to disagree with me in a somewhat civil manner. :shiner:

**Blake** · 12-10-2005, 05:23 PM

Either way is fine by me, as long as he isn't released. The last picture I saw of him in the paper posing with actor Jamie Foxx, he was wearing a blue jacket. Now I'm not gang expert, but isn't that the color of the Crips (the gang he founded)? Reformed, indeed.

**chm2023** · 12-12-2005, 09:24 AM

This is the beauty of being against the death penalty, don't have to deal with this sort of thing!!!

**fvc2020** · 12-12-2005, 09:55 AM

karen

I'm with you. This man shows no remorse. None. Just because you have written children's books doesn't mean you are redeemed. If he wants to teach a lesson about not being in a gang, and what happens when you are, then let him be a man and die with dignity. He will meet his maker and let him decided if he is redeemed.

christina
ps I know my answer won't go over well either

**icyou** · 12-12-2005, 04:36 PM

Just my 2cents woth. I agree with Karen and Christina. I think a lot of other people do to but they don't want to voice it.

**QDO1** · 12-12-2005, 05:04 PM

well arnold S has decided not to grant clemancy, so it is the end of Tookies road tommorow.

The problem with the death penalty: misscariage of justice, rare, but does happen

**Andrew Weiss** · 12-12-2005, 05:29 PM

Latest statistic I came across: based on the number of capital cases overturned by using DNA evidence, approximately 1/3 of the inmates on death row in the US are probably not guilty of the crime they're waiting to be executed for. That's sobering.

**QDO1** · 12-13-2005, 04:02 AM

He is dead now, they exeuted him

**acredhead113** · 12-13-2005, 09:38 AM

Yup...and Arnold will now be re-elected Governor!!! It was a popular decision by him.

**fvc2020** · 12-13-2005, 09:47 AM

I thought Arnold did the right thing. Giving someone a stay is correct when and if they are remorseful over the crime and have been reformed. I never heard anyone say he didn't get a fair trial, dna evidence proved his was not guilty, etc

christina

**acredhead113** · 12-13-2005, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by fvc2020

I thought Arnold did the right thing. Giving someone a stay is correct when and if they are remorseful over the crime and have been reformed. I never heard anyone say he didn't get a fair trial, dna evidence proved his was not guilty, etc

christina

Hi! They say when it comes down to the final hour they will say anything to get a reprieve. My question is did they really have the evidence to convict him. He was black. Most people that are put to death are black. What was the latest news about they found another person that said he was innocent. Was that just bull or just another blind alley?

**lpdeen** · 12-13-2005, 11:51 AM

While it may be true that most people put to death are black, such is not the case in California.

Of the previous 11 persons that have been executed since the reinstatement of the death penalty, 9 were white, 1 was asian and 1 was black. This means that Williams is only the second black man to be executed in California.

**Jim Schafer** · 12-13-2005, 01:02 PM

This guy may have written children's books and did someone some good while in prison but tell that to the relatives of the people he murdered in two seperate robberies by shotgun no less.
It's not like a crime of passion or one incident that went from bad to worse.

**QDO1** · 12-13-2005, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Schafer

This guy may have written children's books and did someone some good while in prison but tell that to the relatives of the people he murdered in two seperate robberies by shotgun no less.
It's not like a crime of passion or one incident that went from bad to worse.

see my thread about guns (few weeks ago...) perhaps a rethink of attitudes is required!

**acredhead113** · 12-13-2005, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by lpdeen

While it may be true that most people put to death are black, such is not the case in California.

Of the previous 11 persons that have been executed since the reinstatement of the death penalty, 9 were white, 1 was asian and 1 was black. This means that Williams is only the second black man to be executed in California.

Thanks for that information.

I wonder how many people this gang killed? Also how many of them were caught and went to trial?

**fvc2020** · 12-15-2005, 12:55 PM

I heard on my favorite radio show, the mother of the co founder of crips say: "everyone is so worried about Tookie, but no one is speaking out for the families and loved ones who are left behind"

Her son was killed in a drive by shooting, and she was worried about the victim's families. Just a thought

christina

**finklstiltskin** · 12-15-2005, 01:16 PM

Have any of you ever heard of a convicted (possible wrongly convicted even) murderer attempt to make amends the way Stanley Williams did? I haven't, and I seriously doubt that any previous death row inmate in history has. Maybe this could have been considered before they finally stuck that needle into his muscular arm.

Examine the evidence, or lack thereof, and ask yourself this: if he was not guilty...should he have been executed with no DNA evidence and no credible eyewitnesses? I personally think not.

Fink (ex-gang-banger)

**acredhead113** · 12-15-2005, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by fvc2020

I heard on my favorite radio show, the mother of the co founder of crips say: "everyone is so worried about Tookie, but no one is speaking out for the families and loved ones who are left behind"

Her son was killed in a drive by shooting, and she was worried about the victim's families. Just a thought

christina

Yes you are right!!! The victims are the ones we should devote our time to. They are the ones that will miss their loved ones.

I just wonder why we wasted so much time and money before we executed a person for murder!? The man that committed the murder has been tried and convicted and he should be executed in a speedy manner just like a jury trial.

But I find what is wrong is the man we executed 24 years later is not the same person that committed those heinous crimes. This is wrong!!! He changed and become a better person. We killed the wrong man!!

**finklstiltskin** · 12-15-2005, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by acredhead113

But I find what is wrong is the man we executed 24 years later is not the same person that committed those heinous crimes. This is wrong!!! He changed and become a better person. We killed the wrong man!!

*applause*

**rbaker** · 12-15-2005, 04:59 PM

acredhead113 said:

“But I find what is wrong is the man we executed 24 years later is not the same person that committed those heinous crimes. This is wrong!!! He changed and become a better person. We killed the wrong man!!”

Do you believe that a person is responsible for his actions?

If so, I just don’t see how “time” can enter into the equation. Are you saying that I am less guilty for my crimes today than yesterday? I can find no support for this concept in either moral or legal beliefs. Perhaps we should repeal the judicial safeguards that are presently in place for capital crimes and perform executions in a more timely manner while the condemned is really, really, really guilty. Then you would not have to “wonder why we wasted so much time and money before we executed a person for murder!?”

**finklstiltskin** · 12-15-2005, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by rbaker

Do you believe that a person is responsible for his actions?

I'm sure Mr. Tookie Williams would agree with this one.

Originally Posted by rbaker

If so, I just don’t see how “time” can enter into the equation.

If said time gives you a chance to make an honest attempt at making amends for what you've done, no matter the weight of your misdeeds.

Originally Posted by rbaker

Perhaps we should repeal the judicial safeguards that are presently in place for capital crimes and perform executions in a more timely manner while the condemned is really, really, really guilty.

Or maybe just once guilt has been absolutely proven. Maybe a touch of fairness, eh?

**fvc2020** · 12-15-2005, 06:49 PM

I hate to be a pest but outside writing children's books, how did he make amends? Granted I only know about the books, but I still haven't heard his what he did to amend the murders. I think people can change and become a better person, but it doesn't change what you have done in the past. It doesn't erase the pain and sorrow one inflicts. We all should be held accountable for our actions. I feel that if he hadn't gotten a fair trial, he wouldn't have been excuted. If there was evidence to the contrary, and his defense atorney didn't present then I do feel sorry for him. I do believe that if he was not guilty then he will be with his Maker.

Christina

**coda** · 12-15-2005, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Schafer

This guy may have written children's books and did someone some good while in prison but tell that to the relatives of the people he murdered in two seperate robberies by shotgun no less.
It's not like a crime of passion or one incident that went from bad to worse.

The stepmother and brother of at least one of his victums both said he provided more value alive than dead and hoped that he could continue his anti-gang activities. They both attended his execution.

Does killing with a shotgun make it anyworse a crime? Frankly if I'm going to murdered violently I'd probably choose shotgun, it's fast. Why is it we even know it was a shotgun? Thanks mass media, another fine job.