Do you guys have experience with Ziess Labs?

[ecsoptical]

The lab I work with and love just got brought out by Ziess. Of course that meens my Alize and Varilux is gone, al least though this lab. What are you guys experience with the Ziess Products?

[Chris Ryser]

The lab I work with and love just got brought out by Ziess. Of course that meens my Alize and Varilux is gone, al least though this lab. What are you guys experience with the Ziess Products?

First of all the name is ZEISS and it is one of the oldest and best optical companies.

What I dont like to see that the european trend continues between Zeii and Essilor of gobbling up as many labs as they can. They really want to dominate the optical trade worldwie and eliminate independent business.

[ecsoptical]

Thank you Chris for your commentary. Just because I can't spell, doesn't mean I don't know how and what they are know for. My question was if anyone had any dealings good or bad with labs that had been bought out.

[Darryl Meister]

If you're asking about the service of the actual lab, it should remain very much the same, if not a little better since they now have additional resources at their disposal. These labs generally operate rather autonomously under the management of their prior owners.

[dcdwn]

Hi ecsoptical,

I was a rep for Walman Optical in Montgomery, formally J.A.WEISS and Son Optical. The changes that were made by Walman were all improvements to the lab. No one was terminated. I am from the Dothan area. Don’t worry, it will all work out ok.

[ASenior]

my Alize and Varilux is gone, al least though this lab. What are you guys experience with the Ziess Products?

I my self am glad to see Zeiss (or Ziess to some) buying up labs. Essilor road the coat tails of the "Comfort" for way to long, 16+ years?, before they even made a poor attempt at new lens design (Panamic). Remeber this is the Company who told us for YEARS that we had to fit the PAL at 21mm high, until AO Compact came out at 18mm. and then they changed their tune and said it could be fitted at 18mm! ??? go figure... loss of market share maybe. Call me bitter.

To be fare, I left the practice right before the 2nd coming, Alize and Varilux's product since Panamic. I'm sure they are a Peach :-)

I found the Shamir and Zeiss products to a better fit.

[Cherry Optical]

If you're asking about the service of the actual lab, it should remain very much the same, if not a little better since they now have additional resources at their disposal. These labs generally operate rather autonomously under the management of their prior owners.

Just for conversation's sake, I'll say the service will remain very much the same, if not a little worse. Seeing how the lab is in AL; I would imagine the service is poor during squarel season.

Hey, just my opinion.

Adam

[Darryl Meister]

if not a little worse

So why are you of this opinion?

[Cherry Optical]

So why are you of this opinion?

I felt like being abrassive. Apparently it worked well. Three things can happen to the quality of work at a lab after it is purchased, and thus put under new management.

1) Quality increases
2) Quality decreases
3) Quality remains the same

Vote now! My vote is for #2 or #3. Darryl's vote is for #1.

Adam

[ASenior]

So why are you of this opinion?

Cherry,

You didn't answer the question.... why do you vote #2 and #3?

[Darryl Meister]

Three things can happen to the quality of work at a lab after it is purchased, and thus put under new management.

Not to mention the fact that these labs are seldom put under "new management." The former owners usually stay on and serve as the General Lab Manager, as far as I know.

[ecsoptical]

Thank ya'll for you imput. My rep pretty much say the same, but he gets paid for it. by the way it's deer season now.

[Cherry Optical]

Thank ya'll for you imput. My rep pretty much say the same, but he gets paid for it. by the way it's deer season now.

I'm glad you found the humor in it.

Adam

[Cherry Optical]

Cherry,

You didn't answer the question.... why do you vote #2 and #3?

Same reason some folks voted for Kerry and others voted for Bush. Perhaps someday we will all think like you, untill then, get used to it.

Adam

[Darryl Meister]

Same reason some folks voted for Kerry and others voted for Bush.

I'd like to think that people had (at least what they perceived as) valid reasons for voting for either candidate. But, then again, maybe that's why we have electoral colleges. ;)

[Andrew Weiss]

To get back to the original question:

I've had direct experience with 2 labs that were bought out by Essilor. At one, the management and lab supervision teams stayed in place, and everything continued as normal, no increase or decrease in quality. At the other, the long-time prior owner and manager left after 9 months and quality and reliability went way down. So my own experience is 50/50 -- not enough to project from, really.

I hope that helps. Best of luck, and happy hunting :cheers:.

[Cherry Optical]

I'd like to think that people had (at least what they perceived as) valid reasons for voting for either candidate. But, then again, maybe that's why we have electoral colleges. ;)

I love when you and I find common ground!

Most buy outs work where if the owner(s) stick around and are able to increase sales figures over a set period of time they can increase the sale price of their formerly Independent lab.

So, short term there probably will be no change. If the current administration (if you will) leaves after the 'buy-out' period there may be a reduction in quality and service.

I believe we can all agree that when YOUR NAME is on it, or when you OWN the company, you are far more invested into the company than someone who simply collects a paycheck from the corporate office.

I am sure if every lab had 10 Darryls this would not be the problem, problem is Darryl is unique, for now. (cloning)

Adam :)

[Darryl Meister]

I believe we can all agree that when YOUR NAME is on it, or when you OWN the company, you are far more invested into the company than someone who simply collects a paycheck from the corporate office

True. But the lab will now have the "Zeiss" name on it too, which means that we now also have a vested interest in its service and success.

[Chris Ryser]

True. But the lab will now have the "Zeiss" name on it too, which means that we now also have a vested interest in its service and success.

Hope you continue this discussion..................just love it.

[Cherry Optical]

True. But the lab will now have the "Zeiss" name on it too, which means that we now also have a vested interest in its service and success.

Darryl,

I am going to keep this going, but only becasue the inventor of the Hooker Pad suggested we do so.

Do you remember the potato chips that Lay's released that had Zero calories, or whatever great health 'benefit' they offered. Well, turns out something in those chips could cause anal leakage. (good for undwear manufacturers, bad for chip sales) Needless to say the product didn't take off how they had expected.

Or how about the Varilux Panamic. I believe it was supposed to completly revolutionize the PAL market and de-throan the Varilux Comfort as the PAL of choice. Interestingly enough that didn't happen and in my hand I hold a letter from Essilor Lenses about the new Varilux PAL to be launched in '06 which states "After the release of the new Varilux, Varilux Comfort and Varilux Panamic will be primarily recommended in re-fit situations, where the patient is already wearing those products."

Here are two examples I could come up with about products that had the 'name' on them, but didn't go as planned. I am sure if we all put our heads together we could think of other products/services/manfucturing facilites that have/had the name, but not the results that are expected.

Personally I have ZERO problem with Indepedent labs being bought by lens manufacturers. It really is all marketing. The article I read in Optical Product news about labs and their ideas on promoting and manufacturing Freeform lenses shows me exaclty why lens manufacturers want control of product distrubition. Sorry for the type-o's, lunch is here.

Adam

Coke 2
Pepsi Clear
Think of car companies, they have had many many bombs!

[Darryl Meister]

Here are two examples I could come up with about products that had the 'name' on them, but didn't go as planned

Adam, I don't know that these analogies are entirely relevant to lab management though. Besides, your examples show that sometimes effort doesn't necessarily pay off, not that manufacturers with a vested interest in a product won't do everything they can to ensure its success. I am sure that both Essilor and Lays tried their damnedest to ensure the success of their product, whether those efforts were ultimately undermined by unforeseeable factors or not. In any event, before it became obvious that there was an issue with the product, it didn't make a lot of sense to just expect to get anal leakage from a new potato chip.

The article I read in Optical Product news about labs and their ideas on promoting and manufacturing Freeform lenses shows me exaclty why lens manufacturers want control of product distrubition.

That may certainly be the case for some manufacturers, but as you probably already know SOLA (and now Zeiss) didn't enter the laboratory market until we had absolutely no choice, and were very reluctant to do so. Our competitors were buying up all of our customers after all to secure their own product distribution. As for free-form, we've had our own specialty lab (SOLA Technologies) to produce these lenses for many years now.

[Cherry Optical]

Adam, I don't know that these analogies are entirely relevant to lab management though.

I guess bringing up specific products may have deflected attention from the point I am trying to get across, and that is: Just putting the Zeiss name and logo on the door does not inherenity increase quality and/or service.

An example of how it will reduce service: Shortly after an announcement to be purchased by Zeiss/Sola, a lab will be delisted by Varilux. That would be a noticable reduction in the service they can provide.

An example of how it will increase quality: Deeper pockets allow labs to purchase more effiecent equipment, thus reducing breakage and decreasing turn-around times.

Adam

[Darryl Meister]

Just putting the Zeiss name and logo on the door does not inherenity increase quality and/or service.

I agree, but I never claimed that it would. ;) I said that we now have a vested interest in the success of the laboratory, just as its former owner once had.

That would be a noticable reduction in the service they can provide.

That's not a reduction in the kind of "service" we've been talking about here though; it's a reduction in product availability. After all, the original post was asking about Zeiss products and services, not whether a Zeiss lab could sell Essilor products.

[Chris Ryser]

.............................. but as you probably already know SOLA (and now Zeiss) didn't enter the laboratory market until we had absolutely no choice, and were very reluctant to do so.

Darryl............may I correct your statement..............SOLA might not have...........however ZEISS has for many years been buying up Labs in Europe and elsewhere and made a bid against ESSILOR or HOYA everytime a lab came up for sale. I expected that this habit would continue in america after the merger after they have a much larger presence now.

[Darryl Meister]

As far as I know, manufacturers have always had a very strong laboratory presence in Europe. The larger manufacturers, in particular, have had massive centralized laboratories for many years now. For that matter, the United States operated under the same paradigm well into the 1960s before the Feds finally broke up the B&L and AO lab networks. Also keep in mind that Zeiss was responsible for much of the early development of the optical industry in Europe (dating back to the 1850s).