What is your redo policy?

[Andrew Weiss]

The docs who run the office have scheduled a meeting with all the (4) opticians Thursday to discuss office policy.

I'd love to know what your policy is on multiple redos of a single job. Do you draw a line at a certain number -- one, or two -- or do you redo the job until the patient is satisfied?

Our office has a significant number of very finiky patients and we have the tendency to redo the redos until the patient is happy. Clearly this does not work economically. We end up eating more in lens costs than we made in profit on the original order.

I'd love to take into the meeting an unscientific sample of redo policies of other dispensaries and shops. I really appreciate your input.

Thanks.

[For-Life]

depends what the redo's are based on. The customer is paying for vision, so we need to work at that until we achieve that.

NOW, if it is a situation where they are seeing 20/30 and no doctor can improve that (this situation did happen) and the patient is not satisfied with that then a refund is the best option.

[ziggy]

Redo untill you get it right, that is if you, made a mistake. If the pd, seg ht , Rx is wrong then remake it. If the lens has unwanted prism, bad optics, pits or scratches from the lab, then redo it. With out the patient we have no job. You said you have pickey patients, can you give an example?

BTW good luck on the meeting

[Happylady]

We do doctor's changes of course or if we make a mistake. Very rarely we will have a second doctor's change on a job but this has only happened a few times.

We have remade glasses a few times when the patient was unhappy with the frame even though there was nothing wrong with them. I dislike doing this but in both recent cases the people had been patients and customers for many years and we had made them several pairs of glasses over the years.

We have had a few times very difficult patients that we could just not make happy and we have just refunded the money for the glasses.

[Jedi]

It all really depends on the type of redo. Our screw-up or lab screw-up, as many as it takes. Dr. Change, once in 3 months after that "special" pricing on lenses. This might also be a good time to identify where the redoes are coming from, and review the dispensing process. We keep a list of all our redoes and review them every couple of months. We also try to keep extensive notes on clients that have had non-adapts, problems with BC, issues with a certain type of material, in order to prevent repeating them.

[Snitgirl]

what kind of redos are you having?

[Andrew Weiss]

We have no problem here redoing the job if the Rx is wrong, or if we got the measurements wrong, or even if the patient doesn't do well with the material. We are very careful with astigmats over 2.00 to duplicate base curves and PDs, and we'll redo if we get that wrong too.

We also have some patients who are never happy with the first set of lenses, even if they're spot-on. Whether they need the redo for psychological or physiological reasons I don't know, but we know who they are and we do what it takes.

And then there are some folks who have very tight tolerances -- like 0.12 diopter sensitivity -- or where there is something we just can't pinpoint. I've made glasses for one or two patients in the same frame with the same lens parameters and had the patient reject the new pair because it just didn't "feel right." No matter what we did, we couldn't figure out what it took to make the patient happy. Sometimes a 3rd redo did the trick, sometimes nothing does the trick. We've rarely refunded the patient's money.

Question is, when there really isn't anything wrong with the glasses, and the patient still is unhappy, and the redo really seems to be no more than to satisfy the patient's psychological needs, do you do it?

Thanks.

[Framebender]

We will sit them on the shelf or even return them to the lab for their evaluation, but we don't do redo's just for something to do.

I hope you're having fun and making money!!

[QDO1]

we always put the patient first, and let them know it

[Excel-Lentes]

Re-Do Policy is this:

1 time redo if Dr. Changes Rx for 30 days from order. There has to be at least .50 D change in order to cash in on this remake.

We Guarantee that the lenses will meet ANSI tolerances and will be free of defects (scratches, warping etc...)

P.A.L. non-adapt: 1 time within 30 days. Switch to FT etc...

We keep the policy loose enough to err on the side of the patient. After all, vision and comfort are critical. We will not remake lenses unless we are 100% sure the patient will actually benefit from the change.:shiner:

[GOS_Queen]

[QUOTE=For-Life]depends what the redo's are based on. The customer is paying for vision, so we need to work at that until we achieve that.
[QUOTE]

I don't know if I agree with that statement.

I think that if there is something done wrong because of a mistake (like a seg or something) it does need to be redone.

Refractions are more subjective by nature and perhaps I will agree that perhaps if there is a change of Rx within a certain time frame, that new lenses should be done once at n/c or perhaps for the lab fees.

I don't see why in this industry it is expected to remake the glasses time and time again !!! Makes no sense to me !!:hammer:



If my MD writes a prescription for a drug, I take it for a certain time and there is no improvement in my symptoms (or I have other symptoms I shouldn't have) then I am charged again for an office visit and my pharmacy again charges me to fill the new drug.

Why is optical different?

Karen

[Happylady]

Has anyone sat a pair of glasses on a back shelf for a week? We did this at a shop I worked at about 20 years ago. We checked everything, the doctor checked everything. They were perfect. The patient came back and WOW the glasses were great now!I haven't done this since but I really knew there was nothing wrong with those glasses.

[cinders831]

Are you kidding me.... At least twice a year, I have two particular pts whom have it in there minds the first go round is ALWAYS wrong, so for the last few years I have "iced" them, back in the tray, back on the shelf.....One week later...PRESTO perfect vision. Whatever works.
On the other question....why so many remakes, Dr error, optician error...

[ziggy]

Question is, when there really isn't anything wrong with the glasses, and the patient still is unhappy, and the redo really seems to be no more than to satisfy the patient's psychological needs, do you do it?

Thanks.

Put 'er on the shelf give the patient a call in about a week. Make sure you heat the frame good prior to putting on the patient and always, ALWAYS use positive reinforcement, ie "you are going to see great out of these".


ps remember most of 'em are nuts anyway;)

[Andrew Weiss]

I'm interested to see that what my Dad used to call "the w.o. treatment" is still alive and well. If the patient came back complaining he couldn't see out of the glasses and everything check out fine, my Dad would write the date and "w.o." (stands for "wipe off") on the patient record card and clean the glasses really well and put them in the drawer, then call the patient in 10 days and tell them the glasses were back. It worked almost all the time. I'll bring that into the meeting with me.

Our redo rate is probably about 10%. Of that amount, 5-6% are lab edging-related errors (lenses edged incorrectly, etc.), which should go 'way down now that we're using a trace-and-transfer system and having a full-service lab do 95% of our edging (they'll eat those errors). Of the rest, I'd say equally split between Dr's rx changes, non-adapts (whether to progressives or FTs or different lens material, etc.), and the occasional measuring error (pd, height). Of the measuring errors, progessive lens height is the most prominent, and seems to come from an unusually large number of our patients preferring to have the corridor mounted 4-5mm below the recommended fitting height (by the way, same thing on FTs, most want the line 4-5mm below the lower lid) and one of us, usually me, forgetting that.

BTW, even though we are an optometry practice, about 10-20% of the Rxs we fill in our dispensary come from outside. We will redo if there's an Rx change at no charge within the first 6 months.

It isn't that we have a huge number of redos. It's the "redo of the redo of the redo" for the patient who is so extremely sensitive that is my concern. The other opticians I work with and I all want to solve the problem, so we will usually keep looking for something, even when we've exhausted everything we can think of. The docs who own the practice want to keep redo costs down, and so do I.

We have occasionally told the patient that we have done everything possible for them and left it at that. Some patients want us to refund their money (not many), and normally we won't do that. Any thoughts?

Thanks again for all your input.

[ziggy]

our general policiy if you want your money back, we will keep 25% "due to the inability to reuse the lens" we have that printed at the bottom of the workup sheet, and have the patient sign at the time of the order. Dont take a loss because someone is accustomed to having their glasses remade 2-4 times before they are happy. In reguards to the remakes due to error,, it should never be above 2.5-3.0%(that includes Rx changes). good luck

[ilanh]

We will try a couple of times to get it right but will always refund in full if the patient is dissatisfied. Doesn't happen often but we state it openly in our policy.

[eyegoddess1028]

but if you are in the wonderful world of RETAIL, you are the door mat. the customer is always right...blah blah blah. any error on my part or labs part of course redo, your reputation is on the line not the money factor. but when you have patients that you have sat with educated on etc, and they come back because, oh i just don't like these is bs... these aren't jeans that you just put back on the shelf (though i highly recommend the magic drawer for that patient that needs .12 in change etc) grant it, this field came out of key shops/ jewelry stores etc. and glasses (good ones anyway) aren't cheap, they are produced from a prescription. can you take medicine back to wal-greens if you didn't like the way it tastes or that it didn't clear up an infection (if so give me their # cuz my cabinent is full!!!)

best advice is refund and cut your losses. i would take that hit versus my nerves rattled.

[Clive Noble]

I'm sure all of you have the patient who, when they book an appointmnt, you know is going to do the job twice. You try your hardest not to find an Rx change, you then try your hardest to give the best fitting frame, you try your hardest to recommend the best possible lenses then comes the argument about the costs. Finally you get the order.

The lenses arrive from the lab, they are checked very carefully and then edged with delicate fingers and checked again..... perfection in spectacles...
then she comes to collect them.................

Such is the case with a lady I will call Ms.R She has made 3 pairs (sorry 6 pairs because of redos) over the last 9 years and she will only come to us because as she says we always get it right in the end.
I have to say we always get it right in the beginning but it is definitely a psychological issue, and based around the frame and what people think.
She always takes frames home for the family to see before final choice.

Last Friday she collected her 7th pair, this time there was a big change needed for near vision and as always, Gradal Top. She was actually delighted with the improved vision both for distance and near and we all patted ouselves on the back...... but wait, yesterday she was on the phone....... "worst glasses I've ever had- I can't see a thing...etc"

When she returned, we found that the glasses did everything she needed but her big problem was when standing on the scales to weigh herself, she couldn't read the scale whereas she could with the old pair.

"These glasses are no good, Progressives are meant to do everything"

She got the full explanation of the few instances where the patient has to be a bit flexible with their expectations, especially when there have been vision changes.

I explained about the difficulties I have with changing a small halogen bulb in the ceiling with my PALs. She didn't accept any of it.

This time, I'm NOT changing anything. There comes a point even with the best customer/patient when they are not always right.

Hope your meeting went well Andrew.

[icyou]

I have sign posted by my register stating no refunds on prescription items. I believe it conveys the message that the glasses are a medical item and just like walgreens they can't be returned. However I fully explain that we will do 1 remake within 30 days for dr. changes, frame restyle, lens change etc. as a service. This seems to stop the "nothing wrong" returns. It is getting harder to do since a large un-named optical corporation runs mulitple ads stating " don't like them take them back. This is killing our industry!

[shellrob]

We will only remake for dr's rx change within 30 days or a non-adapt. I don't know how some of you afford to just remake and remake and then refund. We do not refund lenses at all. In the 6 years I've been at this private office, I've only refunded 1 person in full minus a 25 restocking fee, and that was a very very extreme case.

[LauraH]

I used to manage a location for a fairly large retail chain with opticals (about 150 locations). We had a higher remake rate there then where I am presently employed. However, I think part of that increased rate was due to patient expectation. The kind of patients we got at the retail location were the kind that would always find something wrong with their glasses no matter what and even after remaking the glasses repeatedly for them they would still be unhappy and demand a refund. However, we still run into that occasional patient who finds something wrong even when there is nothing. And, I have to admit that I have stuck glasses in a drawer for a week and they were "magically" better when the patient came back.

But, you should really look into what exact reasons are causing your remakes and what percentage of remakes are Dr. redos, measurement errors, lab errors, patient frame changes etc. Because, a remake percent of 10% seems really high. Even when I was managing the chain location our remake % never went over 9.5% and that was in a month when the doctor was on leave and we had very slow sales and lots of warranty work. We averaged about 5% remake rate and I thought that was high but, they had some really liberal warranties (like 2 year redos for scratches unlimited times on our poly childrens lenses).

Hope that helps some.

Laura